Claire is only a teenager. When she is 30 something maybe she'll understand to work things out differently, but she's young and emotional and indestructable, so of course she's going to seek revenge. She also finds out that he's done it before, and has no intentions of stopping, so in that sense she's seeking justice for all his past and future victims.

Brody: Nothin you can do about it.
Punish: I can do this.
Brody: AAAAAAAA!


I love the justification: "You're just gonna keep at it aren't you."


This is a great show, but the whole Punisher direction. . . Eh!
I guess we'll see how it goes frm here.

Well you know how I voted!

You make a good point here, I'm wondering if the reason they all need to save Claire is so she doesn't turn to villainy. Very few superheroes are able to blur those lines.

Although I do see quite a bit of vengeance as a theme in the storyline. Who knows.

Being young is an excuse for murder/attempted murder or whatever we want to call what she did?


CLAIRE BELONGS BEHIND BARS!

OKAY! THAT'S IT..I AM GOING TO PURPOSEFULLY SPOILER 1.05 (or at least a part of it) JUST TO END THIS STUPID "CLAIRE IS MURDERER" BS....DO READ (no not a typo):

THAT RAPTIST QB...DOES NOT DIE FROM THE SLAMMING HIS CAR INTO THE WALL...CLAIRE WILL NOT REVOKE HIS LIFE..IF, ANYONE DOES IT'LL BE HRG AND HIS FRIEND!

And so does that rapist/murderer!

No, I don't think that Claire did the best thing, but in the real world, a guy like him would walk b/c a girl like Claire would be ashamed/scared to accuse him.

I remember hearing a statistic a long time ago (b/c I'm sure the stats have changed for the worse) that 1 in 3 women will have been a victim of some form of sexual abuse. That was ridiculously high when I heard it (which was a few years back). And what's worse is that most women are repeat victims, often by people that were part of their close network, AND they won't report them.

So...yeah, back to Claire. I feel her pain.

That jock needed an a** whooping and I can't say I blame her for doing what she did. If I was her father and I found out some kid raped and killed my little girl that man would be DEAD.

This show ain't about weed smoking, peace loving hippies. It's about justice.

In any case this event is probably something that the character needs in order to develop. I'm sure if I had some super human ability I'd have a choice to make. Use it to help people or use it for my own ends.

With great power comes great responsibility.. It's a lesson that has to be learned the hard way.

Inysted's OTHER Claire is bad thread In which I posted my thoughts already.

In a nutshell - Not bad. Saving lives - the ones that will be adversely affected by rapes he will continue to commit. She has no legal recourse "Help, he tried to rape me. Well, no, he didn't actually rape me and leave physical evidence, because, well, he killed me instead." She didn't do this because her feelings were hurt, etc... she did it to stop him. So, even if he were to die - well, I'd stand by her decision.

Attempted murder is unacceptable.
If Claire doesn't know right from wrong yet then her parents have done a terrible job of raising her.
There is no excuse for the attempt under any circumstances.
Stop trying to justify your own broken moral compass.

I know you all probably know this but if you look at the graphic novel on the nbc site they both survive the crash and in the next weeks previews they show the jock in the hospital. So she did it to scare the living crap out of him and almost like a warning next time you wont be so lucky. This seems awfully close to alot of what other super hereos do,similar to the Dark Knight (Batman). So I dont see it as a crime, just taking some sort of justice in to her own hands when she realized that she wasnt the only victim.

Aren't "good guys" suppose to kill/stop "bad guys"? Well, to me a guy, even a young teenager, who tries to rape a girl, then we she accidently hurts herself to the point where he thinks she is dead, and throws her in a river or lake and tells no one, that is a bad guy to me. Sure, not a super power bad guy but a bad guy none the less who admitted he would not stopping doing what he has been so Claire in my eyes was only doing her job has an up and coming hero. I wish he did die because odds are he will never learn his lesson and think about how many young girls she would be saving, maybe not from death but at least from pain and suffering.

Dude, go clean up your own back yard before you go making judgements on everyone else.

Then again, I mean her father if freakin HRG, and her mother is a air-head...so...there's that.

The statistic is closer to 60% of women have been abused. In this circumstance, Brody probably would have walked, or gotten very minimal punishment.

Yes, what she did was attempted murder, but the death penalty is just state sponsored murder... (personal politcal disclaimer - I am neutral on the death penalty)

When I first heard this, it was 1 in 4, and I thought that number was low. 1 in 3, I can believe. It is sad and ridiculous. Even 60% sounds more believable to me thatn 1 in 4.

Anyway, if you have read the comic, you should know that Claire never meant to kill him. But it really wasn't well thought out. But she is young and youth makes mistakes that experience knows better than to make. She was very hurt, hurt for others, and still frazzled from waking up from being splayed open. No wonder she wasn't thinking clearly and she realizes she wasn't.

Thank you!

My own 'broken' moral compass...

I really don't think it's a good idea to make personal judgements and insults. Just a thought, that I'll leave there.

As for the one who said



Um, I think it was murder, actually, not rape. Just a thought.

"Stick, meet brain. Brain, meet stick." Ah, yes, it's all coming back to me now!

I am glad she didn't mean to kill him, but would have supported that decision even if she did. Is it what I would do, well, no. Am I going to call her evil and horrible for it, no. Nuff said

God I love it when the guilty conscience jumps up and shouts its innocence when nobody has laid any blame at their doorstep.

Who are you? Gandhi?

Are you denying you said this now?

You obviously have issues since you seem to feel singled out in a post that doesn't quote you.

To the glass houses guy: J.P. feels he's not living in a glass house. This argument has had and will have no effect.



To JP: I hope you take the time to read the response I gave you in the other thread. To be honest the question is not what WE think about her actions, it's what SHE was thinking as she did them that will give us insights to future secrets of the show. Please respond if you think I'm totally off base on this, but read my other post to you first.

Um, then why does "J.P." feel the need to tell us that...and why can't I, "J.P.", just defend those who deserve to be defended? I'd defend you, too, if I thought someone was acting superior to you, also!

For reference, I responded to JP in "Claire, you go girl!"

i think the incident further illustrates the "gray" area the heroes find themselves in with their newfound powers. i'm sure there will be situations in future episodes that cause them to question if they should use their powers for anything less than angelic. to me, it makes the show seem more "realistic" in that things aren't completely black & white.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yeah, what the QB did was wrong and inexcusable. But Claire had no right to try to take her own twisted sense of justice into her own hands. And yes, she did mean to kill him. You drive a car that fast head on into a brick wall and you expect everyone survive? She either meant to kill him or she's just stupid.

It's a fictional show...geez!

And because its a show, on TV, that means that (because of our wonderful FCC) if she had actually killed the Jock, she herself would have to be killed. An eye for an eye thingy.

Agreed.

People who expect rational thought from eveybody will quite often be disappointed.

We are talking about a teenage girl who was left for dead after an attempted rape and woke up in an autopsy room with her chest cut open. That's quite a bit of emotional trauma on top of what she already had. (Why was jumping off of the scaffold her "sixth attempt"? At what?)

Add to that the fact that she can't tell anyone, she just found out that the football player had done it before, and had immediate visual evidence that he would do it again, even after accidentally "killing" Claire the night before.

I think the writers pushed the character pretty far in order for her to do what she did.

BTW, I am not justifying her actions, and neither are the writers. It was a character based decision, and Claire will see consequences for her choices.

You know for someone that has a pic of Jag in their banner signature..shouldn't go around acting all high-mighty...and all holier than thou.

Oh wait, that's right... She was already killed...

eye for an eye then?

I wasnt acting holier than thou, I was merely pointing out the unwritten rule, that if a character commits murder, then that character is doomed to die as well. You have watched formulaic comu-dramas before, havent you?

OMG! That would mean every Star Trek Captain, Starbuck(BSG), and so many others should already be dead but are not..except, for James T. Kirk..but, he died saving the universe!

Just a clarification. Everybody who alluded to wanting to be able to punish people in the same fashion in real life(they have posted in this thread and others this desire) are who my original post was directed at. So for all those that had fits over thinking Claire was justified and my post was taken as a bash towards them for siding with her, I apologize. It wasn't meant for them. It's just a show. Whatever happens in the show is fictional.

i don't know but if anyone tried to rape you, then killed you (accidentally or not) AND THEN drags your body, NAKED, and throws you into some obscure place hoping that no one will find you...do you really think you'd just like to have a nice drive with them and make some casual talk about wether the Cubs are going to win the Super Bowl? get real...i'da done the same thing

It's a concept called character flaws. Nobody is perfect, nobody is all good or all bad. What Clair did was wrong, but given what had happened to her and her emotional state I cannot honestly say I would not have done the same. The show is trying to veer away from the cliche'd morally impenetrable ubermensch and tell the story of real people.

Yep. Well said.

Also consider how the actions / reactions of different characters play with theories of moral development.

To quote Stalin:

"Kill one person and it's murder. Kill a million and it's a statistic."

If you're Jewish or Chrisitan then you read the old testament. An eye for an eye. I think death for murdering her is an eqivelent punishment.

But oh well ... forums never change anyones opinions.

You have similar problems with other heroes? They take justice into their own hands, too.

Should they call the police to get Sylar and put him on trial, or should they take justice into their own hands? In short, the heroes punish the wrongdoers. Was there all this uproar when Ikin killed the two guys in her garage?

The guy got what he desirved, my sister was raped in L.A. by a supervisor she worked with .All I could do was support her from the bay area over the phone after she woke up. And had her go trough the whole process with the cops. Until I could fly down doing the big brother thing. By profession Im a psychiatric nurse have been for 29yrs. Its all about power and their inability of being able to be with a woman because of their inferior psyche... Enough Said

my 2 cents here ... i don't think she would've done anything revenge-wise on the QB because of what he tried to do to her. it wasn't until the other girl said something to claire and they both saw him (the QB) getting overly physical with another girl, that claire took matters into her own hands to teach him a lesson.

then read the 4th installment of the graphic novel to see some additional claire goodies.

Thank you for the clarification - Your "broken moral compass" post came directly after a post of mine - which made it seem it was in response to mine, hence my response. Hee hee... I don't mind a bit of healthy debate... heck, it's fun, and it helps me to either sharpen my position... or find the flaws and revise. But, taking something into the personal realm makes the debate no fun any longer, which is where I thought that was headed.


As I've said in the other Claire thread I don't think she was wrong for what she did. I think that she did it only after she realized he was not going to stop. It was a pattern of behaviour he had been proven to have, and she thought she was protecting other people. IMO, it's a television show that was able to set up the perfect circumstances to justify her actions, and really make it appear there was no other options.

Television is television, not reality.

She should have hugged him and asked to please stop?

Sometimes the police can't do anything. Sometimes they have no proof, or for some reason the victim will nto come forward. I believe that in modern society people are so caught up about the rights of the criminal, that there is no social outcry. The purpose of trials and such is to proove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty. Clair was there. Her body was probably not letting her get drunk. There could be no mistake, just as there could be no justice without Clair's intervention.

Once upon a time there was justice in the US. Unfortunately, too many people were jumping the gun and accusing innocents or twisting the law to punish those different from them. Unfortunately, this pitty for the falsly accused lead to pitty for all accused.

Rambling now..

Ha ha - oh but I like the direction of said ramblings..

I get tired of all the rights for criminals. Especially those after conviction. (Um, why should I pay for cable tv for them? Ha ha!) My husband would like to see the days of the chain gang come back - make em work it off.. But I digress now.




Hee hee - I personally think she should have waited for him to rape again, and then try to convince that girl to go forward, all while trying to explain why she never did.

I think they were all plot devices. Cheesy albeit.
1. Claire killing her Brody.
2. Hiro cheating.
3. Nathan cheating.
4. Issac taking drugs.

The writers were no doubt looking for some kind of excuse for them to do something bad early in their super hero careers. Then they will suffer a direct consequence as a result of their action causing them to develop in character.

It might be possible that Brody dies even though this was not Claire's intent.

What's funny is I thought Nathan cheating was much worse than Claire slamming Brody into that wall. I'm not a big fan of vigilante justice, but there's a reason we have temporary insanity as a plea in the courts. The jerk got what was coming. At the very least, I hope he loses his ability to procreate.

But yes, if you want to take it a step further, all the characters are humans and therefor sinners.
Matt's marriage is failing because he's envious of his wife.
Peter is selfish, even if views empathise with him. His brother wants a career in politics, and Peter is making that difficult.
Nathan is a cheater, and he is also selfish of his brother wanting to find his true calling.
Issac is a drug addict
Niki (who I don't think is evil) is both a stripper/internet porn goddess, and her alter ego kills to protect itself.
Claire lets her emotions control her and gets revenge on her attempted rapist/accidental manslaughter QB.
Hiro and his little buddy cheat, not only a large Casino, but an individual
Am I missing anyone?

He's not dead. Read the comic.

He did kill Claire while trying to rape her, but I do not believe that he "got what was coming". I do not believe in the eye for an eye stuff. I simply do not feel that any being ever 'deserves' to be hurt or murdered. (Punished per say). I do not care who they are or what they do.

I believe that justice is about humane punishment. Lock somebody up in a decent corrections facility, and provide them with education about laws and ethics. I do my best to give people compasion and respect. Any other form of punishent just makes them worse.