I guess this is more of an easter egg, but did anyone else notice that HRG's glasses are cracked throughout the entire episode?

I thought it would have been a really cool detail they put in there, because Nathan janks him in the face at the beginning of the ep, but from what I could tell, the glasses were already cracked before Nathan hit him.

My real purpose for creating this topic, though, is this:

In the beginning of Collision, and more so in Hiros, why on Earth do they change the scenes?

I'm specifically talking about the beginning scene of Hiros compared to the very end of Collision, and the beginning of Collision compared to the end of One Giant Leap.

- They change Hiro/Peter's dialogue in the subway scene, even adding new dialogue. And as the camera is moving through the subway you can clearly see Hiro standing there holding a NEWSPAPER. And when time starts back up, lo and behold there isn't an Asian guy w/ a katana holding a newspaper. The most annoying thing was that I greatly preferred the original version of the subway scene.


- Less annoying was the Claire morgue scene.. in One Giant Leap the coroner should have been talking while she was pulling the stick out, and instead of saying "Oh ******!" in Collision she says "Oh my!" Other than the "oh my" thing, I do prefer the scene in Collision over the original.

- Also, they edited down Nathan's take-off scene as compared to the preview. It no longer shows Nathan leaving the ground at all. The next thing you know he's suddenly 10 feet up in the air. If anyone so much as blinked they really wouldn't know what happened. I did welcome the better "sonic boom" effect, however.

So my question is why do they do this? I found it annoying in all cases, and it hindered my ability to enjoy that specific scene. It was very hit and miss, where in most cases I liked the original better, or the "new" version was just plain bad. Don't get me wrong, Heroes is my absolute favorite show now, but I don't know how many of the blatant continuity changes I can take!

Have you taken into account how difficult it is to keep track of every single minor detail within the show. and quite frankly I am sure that they do as good a job as they possibly can to make the show enjoyable foreveryone. Out of 14 million viewers how many people do you think notice the minute details that you are nit picking at? None of your issues are a blatant disregard for the structure of the show. So just sit back relax and enjoy the fact TV has finally given us a serialized show besides LOST and 24 that even makes sense and is worth watching.

Also i was wondering where you watch the show from? The reaso I ask Is i am in New york and after reading this i went back to my DVR and looked and in the version shown here they show Nathan Crouching and taking off straight into the sky.

jsut a note

I don't nitpick this show or rewatch them over and over again hoping to catch minor details, but I did notice the dialoge changes and im happy that I don't have NBC, because I have yet to ever see a preview. I just kinda stumbled upon this show by downloading the first ep. I enjoyed it, so now I continue to download them and put them on a DVD to watch later while drinking with the buddies. Im getting everyone addicted now! Love the show, except waiting a week for what happens next.

at the end of the episode, they give you the OH MY GAWD moment that whets your appetite for the next installment ... a mini cliffhanger if you will. when that next chapter comes around the following week, the scene is elaborated upon.

the discrepancies are noticable, but i think it's because they are blatant variations/modifications. cracked glasses COULD be a props department snafu, but claire's dialogue change between "HOLY ******" and "OH MY" i don't see as oversight.

I wasn't nitpicking OR watching them over and over to "catch minor details." I noticed all of these details upon my first viewing.

Maybe I'm more aware than you?

Must be my superpower!
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To James Howlett:

And as for anything being an "overlooked, minor detail"... none of the things I mentioned were overlooked (deliberate script/filming changes) and I'd have to disagree that any of them were "minor." (except HRG's glasses, which I was NOT complaining about)

Theother thing about the dialogue...

Once an episode is aired for public viewing all the stupid watch groups , religious right and what not have an opportunity to scour the episdoes of every show (especially popular ones) for things they find to be indecent. It is very possible that NBC recieved complaints about the 17 yeard old cheerleader spewing Holy ****** prior to the 10pm hour.

Yes dumb as can be..but its what they do.

They have already made an announcement that in future repeats of the episode that Claire sticks her hand in the garbage disposal they are editing it down so that the Disposal makers name is not included, and quite possibly will be deleting the scene altogether.

That is so stupid. I'm gonna be ****** if they cut the scene completely.

Yeah, I took that into account.. especially knowing about the Emerson lawsuit, but it just seemed to me like they felt like using the alternate scenes in the next episode to "get their money's worth" since shooting several takes isn't free.

I thought this because I remember someone specifically mentioning an "alternate subway scene" where Hiro mentions something about "risking a rift." This was before the episode even aired. I wish I remember what forum or thread I read this in, because they sure knew a lot about that episode before it aired.

Suggestion: Go back and reread some comics that have arcs where one issue ends on a scene, and it is continued at the beginning of the next issue, often different looking and written differently. I would rather think of it as an homage to actual comics.

As far as the glasses thing, I didn't notice them at all. I was too busy digging the show.

Was the risking a rift line not in the episode that you saw? It was in the one i saw. peter had asked hiro to explain further and he said he had to make it quick becuase he was risking a rift (id have to go and re-check the DVR to get the specific words) but i do remember it being said.

And yes Leighisme it is very stupid...but it just goes to show again how hard it is to do things in this country that are even in the slightest bit edgy or controversial.

I believe i read that that the creators felt that delting the scene entirely would be fine because Claires character was pretty much established up tothat point.

Woolard Its weird that i didnt notice some of the things you mentioned...which isnt like me so will be sure to looka bit closer

The line was in the version I saw. My point was that somebody in a forum mentioned that line being in an alternate scene ONLY, before "Hiros" ever aired. So either they somehow saw Hiros before it aired, or they knew what they were talking about. (Maybe they work on the show?)

I could be wrong though. Was that line in one of the previews NBC released?

Seriously, It's just a tv show. Lighten up. You go back and watch any tv show or movie and you can find discrepancies, if you are looking for them. Especially in Tv shows because they don't take as much time to make. Quit complaining about the minor mistakes they make and enjoy the show for everything that's good about it.

And as far as the scene where Hiro is seen in the subway reading a newspaper is concerned, I believe they put stuff like that in there to delight viewers like yourself and many others on this board that look for the details as an extra "hidden" bonus. It wasn't by accident they put him there, because why wouldn't Hiro be able to teleport instantly from the side of the train to standing in front of Peter? He may be more serious in the future, but he's still a geek at heart.

So, enjoy it, it's made for you.

I hope you don't ever see one of my serious posts.

And the Hiro thing was quite a funny thing to notice, but I'm sure that wasn't their intent. He just needed to be somewhere on the set so that he could easily walk into the shot.

I'm sorry. I just don't see them as being minor. I've watched countless seasons of dozens of TV shows and never noticed continuity "errors" that blatant.

Now of course, I understand they're probably not errors, but why would they change a scene that was already brilliant? That's why I created this topic to get your opinions.

I didn't create the topic to get a bunch of people to tell me to "lighten up." So please take your comments about me and put them in a private message instead of junking up the topic. Thank you.

that was the point i was trying to imply previously ... you just made it make more sense in the world of comic books/graphic novels.

Thank you!

I got a solid answer from somebody, instead of a lame post telling me to lighten up.

I used to read comics as a wee lad, but I don't think I read that many of them in order. haha.

Edit: I found out that the "deliberate continuity error" has a name! It's called "retconning." Here's a Wikipedia link. Retcon

I actually found it through looking through comic book info on Wikipedia! So, elswinger, you were dead on.

jw0ollard,

I completely agree with you. I also saw how they changed the subway scene slightly at the beginning of the "Hiros" episode. It bothered me a little too (I thought it was rather apparent on the very first viewing). Not sure why they would have done this except...could there possibly be multiple timelines? Could we have seen one timeline in the previous episode and another (just slightly different) in this one? I don't know...I am just throwing that out there.

I found it interesting that Hiro said he was risking a rift just by being there. What does this mean? I suppose we are going to find out in future episodes. I am guessing that the future Hiro has caused a rift before, otherwise how would he know about it enough to worry he might cause another.

And, I also noticed Claire's dad's glasses were cracked (although I didn't notice until the scene when he is talking to the quarterback). This is surely not just a prop error and has some significance.

My guess is that a rift would be created if Future Hiro and Present Hiro both use their powers simultaneously or even contemporaneously.

If you're pulling space-time in one location, and then somebody else is pulling on it in another, wouldn't that cause a rift?

I'm so smart.

See I have a ton of friends who take every oppertuneity to heckle things to death weather or not they like it...so I kind of block them out unless the compeletly screw the eniter serries...but that's just me...as for opions I think they were just trying to save money/being lazy...and it is a little lame considering that most people watching this serries don't want to just trun thier brains off and watch...

I hate contributing to the duplicity of threads on the board, so I'll just point out that there was another thread on this issue (probably more than one right? seems like there are 8 threads about every issue) and what I am going to contribute here is very similar to my posts there.

But yeah, the subway scene was substantially different in terms of pacing between the 4th and 5th episodes. I think most of us probably noticed it but I'm not willing to chock it up to poor editing or to wanting to work in some extra takes, I think it has a dramatic effect. IMO the scenes were meant to set up different kinds of anxiety. The episode 4 scene was a cliffhanger and was supposed to keep you in suspense until the next week, it longer and more meaningful pauses and Peter's voice and actions exhibited more fear/bewilderment. The scene at the beginning of episode 5 was setting the pace for the rest of the episode, it had to be faster and give us the sense of urgency which I think will only be building for the next several episodes.

The differences were definitely not significant in terms of the actual action of the show, if you rewatch both scenes there are numerous difference but they have the same ultimate content, it's just more about the mood and effect, the differences were so noticeable that they had to be intentional.

I was actually thinking the same thing.

oh ok thanks too, i was also unsure of the rift thing

Duplicity?

The other topic "on this issue" wasn't even posted in the right forum, and it only mentions one of the several things that I did.

I don't read the General forum, because that's not where I should be going to read/discuss over Episode 5.

What this thread accomplished over the thread in the General forum, is that through our discussions we actually narrowed down the "cause" to something called "retconning." It's popular in comic books, and the writers/editors have probably done this as an homage to comic books.

Look up a few posts. If you would have bothered to read through this thread, you wouldn't need to be repeating yourself from the other thread.

Oh, yes...that is a good point!

I was bothered by these re-enactments of scenes from the previous episode (in addition to the previouslies). But I thought I now have found the solution for both...but elswinger might be right about it. Anyway, here are my ideas:

1. Claire wasn't allowed to say "Holy ******" and they had to do it all over again.

2. Hiro did not deliver the "risking a rift" line, although it was still part of the same scene, right? Hope I'm not wrong about that. I think it would make sense if they reshot that scene to include this line, possibly to make us aware of the fact that his power does have a few downsides. A lot of people seem to think it is ok for him to zip back and forth through time like nobodies business. I really don't think it would be good for the show. So, maybe this was a shout-out?

Your tone seems pretty confrontational here and I think it is due in part to my unclear usage of the word duplicity, and for that I apologize.

I was using it in the legal sense, in the law we use duplicity as a synonym for double pleading, basically it means when you charge two offenses for the same act. My meaning here was that there are multiple threads essentially on the same issue.

I am only familiar with the word in this sense, not in its more traditional sense (which I have since looked up) that implies deceitfulness, I did not intend this interpretation.

I understand, and I would also appreciate more precision in posting, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that everyone post everything exactly where it should go so I generally just browse the names of threads and read the ones that sound interesting to me regardless of where they are posted - with the exception that I don't read things posted in spoiler threads.



I can see that retconning would be one possible explanation, but I think that my explanation is equally likely, and there is no reason that the two have to be mutually exclusive. I think the writers likely changed the scenes to create a different dramatic effect due to their relative placement in the episodes. Both scenes were initally cliffhanger scenes and had to develop a certain kind of drama. However in the next episodes they had to lead into the rest of the episode and they demanded different pacing. Also I think the observation that Claire could not actually finish that sentence with a swear word on network television is relevant. Having her start that statement at the end of the episode provided some humorous relief to the shocking and dramatic images that were being shown, however in the next episode it would need to be reworked for decency reasons.

As for the changes to the subway scene, please read my previous post.

My understanding of retconning as I have seen it used in comics is that it is basically used to condense a lot of relevant history into one brief retelling, or to change something that happened before under previous creative teams to fit with the direction in which the new writer wants to go. In the cases of Heroes I don't think the changes that were made were significant enough to achieve any of the purposes of retconning. They were superficial changes and did not actually affect the factual history of the storyline. That is why I think they were intentionally done for dramatic and pacing purposes.



As for this, it's obvious that you didn't read the links I put up closely if at all, if you had you would see that my comments there were posted about 6 hours before this thread was ever started. So yeah, unfortunately I cannot break space-time, so I did not know you were going to start this thread in the future.

Basically, I was not trying to attack the legitimacy of this thread, I was just trying to put in my two cents, but didn't want people to dog me about posting the same thing in two places. I saw that this thread was developing and felt like contributing.

No need to get insulting.

Well, they can get away with "Oh sh...(cutaway) but they had to change that for the next ep, because they were continuing the scene.

Also, different episodes, different writers, differnet directors, and probably a few different crew members here and there.

Maybe the subway scene was done several different ways, and changed in one and no one told the editors on the next episode, or they went one way in the filming for one episode, and decided to tighten it up for time in the other, and ended up with a few changed lines.

The changes are different, but not in such a way that the content is different.

J

I know that this may be a bit of a leap, and I'm not sure that the show's staff would be this clever, but would you consider the possiblity that future Hiro's arrival created a rift that caused these continuity differences? Eh? Ehhhh? Ok, silly idea--but still fun.

And btb, jw0ollard, thank you for pointing out the errors and asking for opinions, most of all. As an aspiring nitpicker myself, and an enthusiastic conversationalist, I praise you.

Part of the fun with 'retcons' is trying to make them work, or fixing continuity goof ups.

Marvel used to give out "No-Prizes" to people who would send in explanations to how they screwed something up.

If Future!Hiro coming back works for you as a way to explain these little glitches, run with it!

It's part of the danger of serial storytelling, and part of the fun for the fans. =)

I hereby give you the first unofficial Heroes no-prize. ;)

J

the show is shot in a very "serial" format, much like the original batman series. Most of us always saw the two halves int he same hour, but when they first aired, they were shown a week apart. This is clasical serial filming. the "Oh shizzle," and the "oh my" from claire, and other minor inconsistencies. A lot of them are intentional.