It seems to me that Ando's memory is unchanged after Hiro leaps back in time, but other people's memories are altered. Did anyone else get that impression?

I was thinking that since Ando is aware or Hiro and his time leaps, his memory isn't changed. Perhaps an empirical memory thing. His memories can't change because he's consciously aware that events may change by his experiences with Hiro.

Any thoughts on how memory is effected by Hiro changing time?

I just think nothing has changed yet that would cause Ando's memories to change. The waitress is still dead, and Hiro still went back to save her.

Well, Charlie's memories of Hiro were obviously were not yet in place when they first showed up at the Diner since she did not say, "Oh hello Hiro" when they "first met" in last week's episode.

But on second thought, maybe they were. Perhaps Hiro had changed so much over the 6 month period, that she didn't make the connection between this quaint, friendly little Japanse-speaking, broken-english tourist, and the Hiro that the other watress indicated to Ando had been in her life up until 2 weeks prior. In other words, Hiro had changed enough to make him unrecognizeable. Think of the long haired, sword-wielding, english speaking, contact-wearing, nija Hiro who visted Peter on the subway train. (In fact this 6 month gap will probably explain the "new" Hiro).

My guess is that memories are never altered. Histroy is, what history is. None of our heros ever really do manages to alter the timeline. What has happened, has happened / or will happen, including Charlie's murder, Isaac's murder, the death of a cheerleader (it doesn't say which one), and the NYC bomb. It makes for better drama that way... Or put another way, the writers have a lots of tricks still up their sleeves.

But something has happened. Hiro was at Charlie's birthday party six months ag- ohhh... Right. I think the problem is that we're thinking if Hiro went back in time, the Hiro from that time would be missing, but that's just silly. Hiro went back in time, but the Hiro from that time is still in Japan. So yeah, nothing has happened yet to change Ando's memory.

Probably two diffrent time scenerios

1-Hiro witnesses Charlies death with ando and everything we know...

2-He goes back in time to save charlie...

But it wouldnt explain why the waitress knew who hiro was... doesnt make sence.

What do you mean? The waitress knows Hiro because Hiro was there six months ago hanging out with Charlie. Was that waitress in episode eight? I don't think so. And if she was, well, I know she didn't say 'hm, I don't know who this Japanese guy is', so we have no reason to believe she didn't know who Hiro was the whole time, do we?

I hope Hiro doesnt change that much...I like the guy just the way he is

maybe he was in the past just that day (Charlie's birthday) and then he went to the future, that's why Ando memory is still the same. And that would explain why Charlie is still dead in Ando's present. Bah, too complicated lol

Y'all making me confused lol

Acutally in present day, Charlies does not know who Hiro is. Two clues to this: When she is at their table, she says something along the lines like "We don't get many tourists out here in Midland." Then Hiro follows with asking "How do you know we are tourists?" So obviously from that, Charlie has never seen them before.

Secondly, from that day, Charlie was only able to start remembering things a week before. There is that possibility that she forgot about Hiro if Hiro had gone back six months and then up and left before her power started reacting and growing.

It looks like Hiro is in for a lot of hurt emotionally and he'll return to the time that Ando is waiting for him to go to Claire's school and see the blood on the homecoming banner. It doesn't look like Hiro will change what happened the day of Charlie's death seeing that Ando's time is still the same.

I know I'll be hella confused if suddenly there are several timelines occurring and one's with charlie alive with hiro and another with charlie dead but Ando is alone and.. oh boy I feel a tumor coming on.

Hiro has already changed the past. He wasn't in the photo before he left and then he appears later. So, if we can accept this small change, we agree that the past can be changed and affect the present (aka the photo). Just think of everyone in the diner who saw the photo before Hiro jumped back. What would they remember?

I think that whatever changes Hiro is making in the past will alter the memories and events from that point and ripple to the present. That means, events, lives, and memories. Ando will remember whatever results of Hiro's changes (or lack of changes)... or not So, if the waitress is saved, Ando will not remember Hiro jumping back.

once again. and no offence intended here, but you guy forget the principles of string theory and time travel.

Does anyone else think something funky is happening at the diner? I guess, the first question is how long has Ando been waiting there? It seems like less than a full day. In that time, the diner (a guesome crime scene) has been completely cleaned and reopened for business, customers are being served, and an elaborate memorial to Charlie has been constructed.

Something doesn't add up. I think that Hiro did change the past, and that the effects were immediately felt in the present, but I don't think we really know what those affects were, yet.

The next question is how have the changes affected Ando and his memory?

Woof.

me say time travel make head hurt bad ughhhh

Do we know this factually? I did some rewinds on last week's episode, and never did find any previous view of the picture without Hiro in it. If there is such a view, can someone post a screen capture?

Yep, that was my thinking exactly. Thanks for phrasing it so well. Something is very off in that diner; that's what made me start thinking about Ando's memory. It seems like everyone else's memory has been changed. That memorial seems to been erected rather quickly when comparing it to the cork-board photo collage at the end of the last episode.

It seems like Ando would have had to been waiting there for 2 weeks if everyone's memory regarding Charlie's death is at the same time (I'm thinking about Claire's blog saying that the murder happened two weeks prior to Homecoming). The only way I could make sense out of it is if Ando has a different memory of the death because of his memories with Hiro (hence, empirical memory).





Yep, I have a copy. I can't post it right now, but there is another copy of just Charlie in the screenshots section in last weeks episode.

EDIT: Here are the pics from the other thread:

I found this on an IMDB thread. It's the picture before Hiro time travels.

I dont beleve that they knew each other before because the other whaitress said that he had poped out of her life a cupple of weeks ageo ~this after he had gone back. so she knew Hiro too, so she also would have remberd Hiro when he first came in.

Hiro reallly isnt the type of person that you would forget. i meen even if he changed he still looks the same as time gos by (remember future Hiro) same ol Hiro.

I believe that only the people in the diner 6 months ago will have changed, since Ando wasnt at the diner 6 months ago his memmory of what happened wont change.


I guess, the first question is how long has Ando been waiting there? It seems like less than a full day. In that time, the diner (a guesome crime scene) has been completely cleaned and reopened for business, customers are being served, and an elaborate memorial to Charlie has been constructed.





Whos to say with the changes possibly made by the leap back that Charlie dies at the diner now?

Noticed that there is another difference in the two photos.

Hiro and Charlie Photo has a board with a menu in the background above the microwave and below the Happy Birthday Banner.

In the Charlie Only Photo, the blackboard is missing.

Think it is probably a boo-boo by the director or did Hiro in the past somehow put up the board.

I think I am overanlyzing this series...



Maybe the Haitian and the HRG did a mind swipe of Charlie and Hiro 2 weeks ago. Charlie did say 2 weeks ago she started learning Japenese. With Charlie's memory cleared of Hiro's influence, she is destined to die.

People can also be made to forget. Earlier I said that it is possible that Charlie did not remember Hiro because her abilities started a week earlier from when she met present day Hiro. The Hiro that went back into time left before her powers started affecting her.

But I agree with what someone said before that the other possibility could be that she has been studied by Mr. Bennet and the Haitian and that her memory was erased as far back to her memory of Hiro (six months ago).

There is one thing that can hold that theory. The list of names that Mohinder brings up, the very last name on the left column that comes up can't be seen BUT we see the city and state the person is located in, which happens to be *don don don* Midland, Texas. It's not much of a stretch to say that if Charlie's name was on the list, Mr. Bennet more than likely knew about her (especially being so close to Odessa). Matt, Isaac, Nathan, Niki and D.L. were on the list as well.

I think the issue is not about memory. I think it is about time-lines. Ando is in the time-line before Hiro went back 6 months. Notice, the waitress is still dead, and probably will be unless Hiro saves her through his jump back in time. The people that work in the diner now know Hiro from six months ago. However they still don't know Ando? I don't think Ando's memory, or awareness of Hiro's actions effect where he was in time when Hiro went back. The waitress is still dead. Nothing has changed yet, and Ando is uneffected by actions that do not invovle the time-line Ando came from. After all, Hiro didn't go back into Ando's past.
What I think this means is that Hiro has again created another time-line.
What's that, 4 ?

I was thinking somehow the Haitian was able to swipe both their memories. It could have been the two weeks prior when Hiro left the Haitian abducted him for "study," wiping Charlie's mind as well.

But of course that doesn't explain the other waitress remembering Hiro...

on the topic of hiro changing time...

in the first episode hiro references x-men 141 (accidentally mentioned as 143)... the logic of time travel in that issue might be a key in understanding this question of ando's memory.

in that issue, time travel was very much unlike that of the movie "back to the future." in that issue, a person travels back in time to change the past, and does, but when they return to the present, they learn that they had created a divergent timeline while their own time remained the same.

possibly hiro has done the same thing. in another timeline, the waitress will live on, but when hiro returns, he will learn that his own timeline remains the same.

it might be difficult to understand without reading a pile of x-men comics, but the main idea is that you can't change the past, you can just change it for a different version of yourself..

kring, the main writer, maintains he never read any comics, but that x-men reference surprises me.

Ahhh... you do realize that time travel is IMPOSSIBLE don't you? LOL

It's so funny how seriously people get into all this fantasy stuff. It's fun.

hate to break it to you guys, but charlie is still dead.

HRG had a picture of her corpse that he showed eden.



i think hiro went back in time 6 months like we all know. befriended her, learned a ****** load of english, and then.. somehow, sylar got to her. however.
in this NEW timeline, she dies before the time in which we ando and hiro first met her. like someone said before, ando's memory doesn't change becuase he's someone shielded from the effects of the "time-reorder" by the fact that he's aware of the traveller. which is why he's probably very confused.

hiro disappeared two weeks ago in the NEW timeline, which makes me think that charllie now died two weeks ago, instead of a day ago. which makes me beleive that he's either A) gone back try and fix it again. or realized that being able to pull a "charmed" and freeze people isn't enough to defeat every situation and has gone to seek out some sort of training ( perhaps leading to the sword weilding hiro) . either way, the "subway hiro" ( i'm not refereing to him as future hiro anymore, since that future is no longer relevant) knew he wouldn't be in odessa during the time in which he needed to be in order to save claire. which is why he went to peter.

Well for one, the older lady in the diner told Ando she knew Hiro really well, and that he had "popped out of their lives" a few weeks ago.

From a storytelling perspective, the writers are faced with the dilemma of what point of view to use. In Hiro's plotline, we really only knew as much as Hiro, we identified with him, he was kind of the narrator for his plotline. But now that he's gone they had to decide what to do. They could do it from a third person, omniscient POV, but then we'd already know everything and feel very disconnected from the story.

So instead they decided to pass the narrative over to Ando. We only know what he knows, for the most part.

I just think, creatively, the writers thought that if we were watching the show and Ando all of the sudden lost any memory of Hiro going back in time, the story would completely lose any momentum and intensity. Of course, in the next episode, we finally get to see what happens.

Which, in the Entertainment Weekly episode from November 3rd, they give quite a bit away about the episode "Six Months Ago" Look it up on the spoiler board if you want to know details about Hiro and Charile.

Oh, and I don't think we should even try explaining how Ando remembers everything with SCIENCE. Since this is a Sci-Fi show after all.

Ok...so here's my guess now.

As you have all pointed out, the diner just doesn't feel like a crime scene. Charlie's memorial has already been put up. Hiro is in the birthday picture, and the waitress doesn't act like a murder just happened, but remembers Hiro fondly. So, Hiro has to have changed something...

what if...

Two weeks ago, Hiro convinces Charlie to run away with him? To keep Sylar away, they fake Charlie's death somehow. Say Hiro pops out of her life, she tries to go after him, there is a car accident and they think she was in the car. So Charlie is really still alive and well, hiding out with Hiro. Sylar shows up that night, sees the memorial, and figures he's too late...moves on to Odessa. Hiro can't go back into the diner, since if he does a "rift" will occur...Ando remembers one timeline, and the waitress remembers another.

Just food for thought...

I like this theory. And I think its true.

This is fiction, not Physics 101. See the TV Guide video interview with Masi Oka where he specifically says that all the time travel rules and guidelines are made up by the writers of the show and don't follow any established laws of behavior.

I think the lesson here is that anything goes, regardless of what real world physics tells you. Real world physics would also tell you that a man can't fly because of the laws of gravity.

under the theories of einstien and people who follow his principles yes it is impossible. however..

string theory, or the theory of everything it is possible tht other strings relate time differently that our does, which means... if one was able to travel to one of the other strings, then he might be able to effectively" timetravell" if that string hasn't experienced as much time as his.

another half of that, some people beleive that strings are not infinitly lasting dimensions. that they actually decay and birth millions of millions of times. being that there is untold amounts of stringsexisting at the same time, its possible to travle from an older one, to a younger one.
effectively "timetravelling"

sorry if this sounds a bit off to someone who actually understand what i'm saying here.. i'm really trying to laymans term it down.

also, as to the fantasy comment. it's actually science fiction not fantasy. since it deals with mutations of genetic structure not magic. as such, it's entirly possible for anything in heroes to actually happen one day in the future or even today.

before you scoff, teleportation was science fiction 3 years ago. it's not now. cloning was science fiction in the 60's it's not now. cyborgs were science fiction, they aren't now.( just ask your grandfather with an artificial heart.) just last year, invisibility cloaks were sci-fi.. they are not any longer.

Some very interesting theories here.

The one thing I'm puzzled about that doesn't match with a couple of the theories is that it seemed like Hiro had been gone a very long time, much longer than two weeks which seems to be the estimated death of Charlie.

What we really need to find out is what killed Charlie in this new timeline because it may not have been Sylar. Faking Charlie's death would certainly be a great way to keep Sylar from pursuing her. Perhaps Hiro dropped out of sight and hid in Charlie's home until they came up with a good plan to keep her safe.

Time to watch the episode again to look for clues...

My head always hurts when I try to analyze the ramifications of time travel. Started with an episode of Babylon 5, and hasn't gotten any better.

The worst one logically is "I have to do this since my time travel says I have done it".

The entire issue of parallel time lines due to what one does is crazy. In Ando's reality Hiro was with him in Tokyo 6 months ago, the young Star Trek geek. According to the waitress at the diner, Hiro was with Charlie 6 months ago, and stayed together for a while. So two Hiros living in parallel in the same time, just in different spaces. Also, Hiro (the single character) has memories of both realities, since they occurred sequentially for him. So if someone were to ask Hiro what he was doing 5 months ago (once he returned to the present), how would he answer?

I think most scifi writers gloss over the ramifications of time travel, but keep it as a plot device since it is pretty cool. The ramifications of manipulating time can be quite severe, I think.

When Hiro goes back to six months ago, the Hiro of the present is with Charlie, while there's another Hiro, the one that was in that time to start with, still in Tokyo with Ando. The Hiro of the present will remember being in Tokyo six months ago, but he will also have the memories of the things he's doing in the past with Charlie. The Hiro of six months ago would only have memories of being in Tokyo, since he is not yet the Hiro of the present and hasn't travelled back in time yet.

Don't even try to anaylize time travel because its impossible. Time paradox is just too impossible to explain. Just try to enjoy the show and see how the writers explains the time paradox next week.

The more you try to explain it the more complex it will get so just enjoy the show for what it is...fiction.

i joked about this somewhere else, but i'd like to think that hiro killed charlie.

he goes back, saves her, but realises that this c**ks up the future and so has to go back and kill her to fix things.

I like this theory too and I hope it comes true!

Good theory except I expect them to call Ando shortly and tell him to meet them somewhere. It will be interesting to see what Ando does remember then.

The waitress says hiro was out of her life a few weeks ago. That tells me Charlie was around after hiro left.

I think Hiro left to avoid a rift, having 2 of him time travelling at the same time.

I read this whole thread and I'd wish i hadn't. now i dont know what the ****** is going to happen. you guys broke my brain. who's ando?

Hiro's friend. The other Japanese guy that's always with him.