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9th Wonders Boards > Episode Discussions > Season One > #9: "Homecoming"
philhos
QUOTE (fidorulz @ Nov 21 2006, 05:23 PM) *
Also there is blood on the homecoming banner but the cheerleader was killed in the locker room not in the hallway where the trophy case is.

Why do you think it was off? Or was it just a general view of the event?


Rewatch the locker room scenes again. There's a banner that just says 'Homecoming' in the locker room. (Why? I don't know.) It actually looks like the one Claire was working on during last week's episode.

Also, watch when Sylar "cuts" open Jackie's head. They actually show blood splatter onto the banner.

There you go. Problem solved.



















Of course, this means that Hiro and Ando end up in the girl's lockerroom.
fidorulz
Im not debating the fact that things changed from what was drawn due to the intervention of Peter but now that we know the first image. We know the 2nd one is off since we see Sylar launch locker doors at Peter before Peter falls and hurts himself. Also Hiro and his friend show up before Clair is chased up the stairs.

Also there is blood on the homecoming banner but the cheerleader was killed in the locker room not in the hallway where the trophy case is.

Why do you think it was off? Or was it just a general view of the event?

Still missing Hiro in the actual situation

1st panel


Full image
Averagefan
I wouldn't be surprised if things change due to Hiro going back in time and this battle happens again. Look at Peter's hand how it goes through the locker door like DL can.
YoShIe
The painting of Hiro & Ando... didn't that occur last week? I'm pretty sure I remember seeing them near a sign like that.
*makes note to review episodes*
Zaknrfama
I think a lot of them were just general views of the events, and weren't necessarily exact. I mean, it's still art, he's not painting photographs. Peter never had butterfly wings, but Isaac drew that. As for Hiro and Ando, I'm sure they'll get there sometime.
LurkNoMore
Peter had never seen them before and Isaac was under the influence of drugs when he painted them so he remembers nothing about them.

Isaac and Peter simply put them in the wrong order. In fact it would have had no credibility if they had got them in the right order.
Zaknrfama
Oh hey, I didn't notice Peter's hand was in that locker door... Yeah, it's very possible they go back in time and do it again. That is a very cool possibility.
Tarsuinn
peter had butterfly wings? @_@ you must mean his trenchcoat flowing out behind him lol
chisoxeb
just put this idea out there in general discussion forum but...
what probably happens is hiro and ando arrive at the school too late, see dead cheerleader, blood everywhere and think that peter failed...and probably upset about it...
Talesin
Both the one with Hiro and Ando and the one with Claire running up the stairs is different from what happened.
As noticed, the banner was hanging in the girls locker room (why?), instead of over the trophies as pictured in the painting.
And Peter came just behind Claire helping her up, instead of it being Sylar.
And no the shadow is NOT Peter. The shadow is holding up his hands ready to use telekineses like Sylar do, while Peter does not do this, and has no reason to.
Also we saw the vision Isaac saw in episode 4, which he painted it from, and its a different clip.
fidorulz
Hiro would need to show up soon in order for that panel to have anything to do with it but he is MIA in the past so unless there is an alternate version of events it dosent seem likely
SimoneD
I don't think Issac's paintings are nessecarily wrong, I mean he paints the future, which other people see changing the outcome of the event because the person(s) will know what will happen.
decodv
Peter definitely got the order of the paintings wrong.

The painting of Hiro & Ando is likely going to take place in Episode 11 (because #10 is Hiro's six-months-ago adventure) as you know there is a bloody banner and they hasn't seen it yet.

The painting of Sylar standing over the dead cheerleader did happen (just not to Clair).

Peter's hand is not going through the locker, it's simply above it.

What I don't understand is if Issac can paint the future, wouldn't that future be definitive? If so, how can you change it? The paintings are pictures of events that are going to happen. If you can change the future, then Issac is only painting possible futures, not definitive.
fidorulz
QUOTE (decodv @ Nov 21 2006, 07:18 PM) *
Peter definitely got the order of the paintings wrong.

The painting of Hiro & Ando is likely going to take place in Episode 11 (because #10 is Hiro's six-months-ago adventure) as you know there is a bloody banner and they hasn't seen it yet.

The painting of Sylar standing over the dead cheerleader did happen (just not to Clair).

Peter's hand is not going through the locker, it's simply above it.

What I don't understand is if Issac can paint the future, wouldn't that future be definitive? If so, how can you change it? The paintings are pictures of events that are going to happen. If you can change the future, then Issac is only painting possible futures, not definitive.


Well in terms of how definitive the paintings are or the future that shows in it keep in mind Hiro came from the future to change it so all things are possible but this starts to bring alternate realities into the picture which only complicates the matter
Abraxas
Did you ever consider that Isaac might paint the future, but not the exact situation with all of its details? I don't know, that's possible. Plus, he is on drugs and the drugs are only facilitator as Eden said...maybe the drugs influence the details he paints? Makes it more dramatic or surreal or whatever?

Anyway, the panels are wrong, I agree. The reasoning behind that is a realistic one. However, there's more. The missing painting must be square to fit with those two "pages". But it isn't. It's just rectangular. It doesn't fit.
Do you think that's a slip-up or does it rather mean that there are more pages and some paintings simply belong on another page?
Nobody says we just have two pages, right?

Because that would be a rather obvious propping mistake. I think I would have checked that. I'd have to say it was bad work in that case. tongue.gif
fidorulz
QUOTE (Abraxas @ Nov 22 2006, 09:06 PM) *
Did you ever consider that Isaac might paint the future, but not the exact situation with all of its details? I don't know, that's possible. Plus, he is on drugs and the drugs are only facilitator as Eden said...maybe the drugs influence the details he paints? Makes it more dramatic or surreal or whatever?

Anyway, the panels are wrong, I agree. The reasoning behind that is a realistic one. However, there's more. The missing painting must be square to fit with those two "pages". But it isn't. It's just rectangular. It doesn't fit.
Do you think that's a slip-up or does it rather mean that there are more pages and some paintings simply belong on another page?
Nobody says we just have two pages, right?

Because that would be a rather obvious propping mistake. I think I would have checked that. I'd have to say it was bad work in that case. tongue.gif


Could be its a wrong piece or simply Peter didnt know what he was doing when he put them together.

Im still waiting for the Hiro piece to actually fit
idallia
Read the latest installment of Beaming Beeman, the blog by Greg Beeman, director of Episodes #3, 6, and 9.
QUOTE (Beaming Beeman - Episode 9: Homecoming @ Tuesday, November 21, 2006)
But...the paintings in Isaac's loft were a different story. Tim Kring and the writer's [sic] gave Tim the idea of what they wanted and Tim painted the paintings in a vacuum, before we ever had sets or clear ideas of how we'd end up shooting the scenes.

It goes on to explain how they recreated the scenes depicted, and concludes with the following:
QUOTE (Beaming Beeman - Episode 9: Homecoming @ Tuesday, November 21, 2006)
The last painting, of Hiro and Ando standing under the bloody Homecoming banner was another challenge. When Mr. Sale painted it, no one had any idea that he was even going to make the banner bloody, much less how we'd accomplish it. This painting actually plays out in episode 11 - but we had to come up with a way to set it up in #9, which we did in the scene where Jackie gets murdered.
fidorulz
QUOTE (idallia @ Nov 23 2006, 10:45 AM) *
Read the latest installment of Beaming Beeman, the blog by Greg Beeman, director of Episodes #3, 6, and 9.
It goes on to explain how they recreated the scenes depicted, and concludes with the following:


Sot heir only human lol
Abraxas
QUOTE (fidorulz @ Nov 23 2006, 04:21 PM) *
Could be its a wrong piece or simply Peter didnt know what he was doing when he put them together.

Im still waiting for the Hiro piece to actually fit

Uh, no. Whatever way you arrange them, they cover the same space and the missing painting is just too big for that space.

I would make sense if the Hiro and Ando piece is from a third page, because it is definitely the last one.
Except, I haven't even seen Claire reaching out like that...did you? I guess that is another inaccurate picture and because that is already vague it looks like next to nothing like this painting when you see it.

But I suspect it is just a mistake. This seems to go to deep, if they have another page and how should Isaac come up with all those paintings in the meantime? Nah.
the_chap
I've a feeling that the reason why the paintings look wrong, is that the "mission" isn't completed.

Just a hunch... but I think their main goal was to save Jackie. Perhaps a chain of events which starts from her death ultimately results in the nuclear explosion. How or why this happens is beyond me.

For me, I can only see 1 reason they need to save Claire is that Sylar steals brains. It was shown earlier that if Claire's body isn't "complete", she can't regenerate. So if Sylar steals her brain she can't regenerate. But other than this reason, there shouldn't be any real cause for concern if Sylar tries to kill Claire cos she just won't die.

Well, just my 2 cents.
fidorulz
QUOTE (Abraxas @ Nov 23 2006, 08:16 PM) *
Uh, no. Whatever way you arrange them, they cover the same space and the missing painting is just too big for that space.

I would make sense if the Hiro and Ando piece is from a third page, because it is definitely the last one.
Except, I haven't even seen Claire reaching out like that...did you? I guess that is another inaccurate picture and because that is already vague it looks like next to nothing like this painting when you see it.

But I suspect it is just a mistake. This seems to go to deep, if they have another page and how should Isaac come up with all those paintings in the meantime? Nah.


Well from the looks of it he is trying to ditch the drugs and still use his power. If he is able to do this the pictures he comes up with may be more acurate
cnagy
QUOTE (decodv @ Nov 21 2006, 07:18 PM) *
What I don't understand is if Issac can paint the future, wouldn't that future be definitive? If so, how can you change it? The paintings are pictures of events that are going to happen. If you can change the future, then Issac is only painting possible futures, not definitive.

Actually, the future he painted was definitive. It happened exactly as painted; only a misinterpretation of who was who made the whole thing seem like an attempt to change the future.

Consider:

Isaac's paintings are only detailed enough, character-wise, to know generally who is whom. The picture that we assumed showed Claire dead actually showed Jackie's death; they are both blonde cheerleaders and the details aren't all there (especially since Peter finished the painting,) so the mistaken identity is pretty easy.

If the dead cheerleader shown in the painting that Peter finished was supposed to be Claire, then Isaac drew two outcomes to the same event before Peter ever knew to change anything. Remember, he painted Peter's "death" weeks earlier in the piece that Simone took to auction. Why would he paint both Claire's death and Peter's death if only one or the other would occur? He didn't, he painted Jackie's death.

Which means that Peter's involvement was fate. Which makes Future Hiro's return both unnecessary and yet necessary. Isaac paints the future, and his precognition this time around would take into account the fact that a traveler is going to come back from the future to tip Peter off. Fate. The characters thought to change it, and yet instead they ran headlong into it; it is a classic literary device.
fidorulz
QUOTE (isitmondayyet? @ Nov 23 2006, 10:12 PM) *
if the pic of Hiro & Ando is moved to a different page, there is in fact room for the dead-Peter painting

first row: Claire looking worried; Peter and locker doors
second row: Claire running up steps
third row: dead Peter

next page, first panel: Hiro and Ando arrive a little too late ...


Monday we shall find out most likely whats up with hiro
isitmondayyet?
if the pic of Hiro & Ando is moved to a different page, there is in fact room for the dead-Peter painting

first row: Claire looking worried; Peter and locker doors
second row: Claire running up steps
third row: dead Peter

next page, first panel: Hiro and Ando arrive a little too late ...
MADCAT
QUOTE (the_chap @ Nov 23 2006, 08:43 PM) *
I've a feeling that the reason why the paintings look wrong, is that the "mission" isn't completed.

Just a hunch... but I think their main goal was to save Jackie. Perhaps a chain of events which starts from her death ultimately results in the nuclear explosion. How or why this happens is beyond me.

For me, I can only see 1 reason they need to save Claire is that Sylar steals brains. It was shown earlier that if Claire's body isn't "complete", she can't regenerate. So if Sylar steals her brain she can't regenerate. But other than this reason, there shouldn't be any real cause for concern if Sylar tries to kill Claire cos she just won't die.

Well, just my 2 cents.


But we saw that it takes time for her to get back on her feet. She was tossed into a cement wall and killed. It took her a while to regenerate and at anytime Sylar could have had his way with her. Now he was occupied with Jackie at the time but we know Claire?s regeneration ability takes time to work (just like when Peter was using it).
Scooter!
We only know the general focus of the painting.

We don't know if it's Jackie in Peter's or not.

We don't know if it was Sylar or Peter overshadowing Claire.

And we don't know what time it is in Hiro and Ando's painting.

Plus, as far as saving the Cheerleader goes, Future Hiro doesn't know about the painting of Dead Cheerleader, so he probably meant that Sylar would have killed Claire too.
fidorulz
QUOTE (MADCAT @ Nov 24 2006, 08:26 AM) *
But we saw that it takes time for her to get back on her feet. She was tossed into a cement wall and killed. It took her a while to regenerate and at anytime Sylar could have had his way with her. Now he was occupied with Jackie at the time but we know Claire?s regeneration ability takes time to work (just like when Peter was using it).


From the looks of it Sylar didnt know Clair was the one he was looking for. Keep in mind even Peter thought Jackie was the cheerleader because of the news articles and such he was looking at in the hallway when he first bumped into Clair.
odell_2
QUOTE (cnagy @ Nov 23 2006, 09:38 PM) *
Actually, the future he painted was definitive. It happened exactly as painted; only a misinterpretation of who was who made the whole thing seem like an attempt to change the future.

Consider:

Isaac's paintings are only detailed enough, character-wise, to know generally who is whom. The picture that we assumed showed Claire dead actually showed Jackie's death; they are both blonde cheerleaders and the details aren't all there (especially since Peter finished the painting,) so the mistaken identity is pretty easy.

If the dead cheerleader shown in the painting that Peter finished was supposed to be Claire, then Isaac drew two outcomes to the same event before Peter ever knew to change anything. Remember, he painted Peter's "death" weeks earlier in the piece that Simone took to auction. Why would he paint both Claire's death and Peter's death if only one or the other would occur? He didn't, he painted Jackie's death.

Which means that Peter's involvement was fate. Which makes Future Hiro's return both unnecessary and yet necessary. Isaac paints the future, and his precognition this time around would take into account the fact that a traveler is going to come back from the future to tip Peter off. Fate. The characters thought to change it, and yet instead they ran headlong into it; it is a classic literary device.



Consider this also:

What if as someone said earlier in the thread that it's not finished. Let's say that it was chronological. What if the event only started at homecoming but that's only the start of the event. Maybe Sylar will somehow escape and go after the cheerleader again. Just like we all assumed that Claire was the cheerleader and not Jackie, maybe we all assumed that the whole event happened at homecoming. The other scenes could've been from a couple of days later or something.. we'll see eventually.
fidorulz
QUOTE (odell_2 @ Nov 29 2006, 08:31 AM) *
Consider this also:

What if as someone said earlier in the thread that it's not finished. Let's say that it was chronological. What if the event only started at homecoming but that's only the start of the event. Maybe Sylar will somehow escape and go after the cheerleader again. Just like we all assumed that Claire was the cheerleader and not Jackie, maybe we all assumed that the whole event happened at homecoming. The other scenes could've been from a couple of days later or something.. we'll see eventually.


There would be a need for another homecoming since the banner Hiro is under says homecoming
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