I disagree, it's a good example (romanced, i must admit) of what happens when a tangent universe is created.
However, there's a LOT of examples in fiction either if you don't count DD.

Now, I will plainly state the way this show handles time travel:

Everything that happens in the past is unchangeable. If you go into the past, not only are you not able to change it, whatever you do already happened and is remembered by all directly connected to it as already happening.

Now, lets give some in show proof.


Future Hiro in no way was trying to change the past, he was simply completing his role in it. In the episode Future Hiro says that "Peter told him many times of this meeting" meaning the meaning already happened to the Peter in Future Hiro's past...meaning him going back is simply finishing the loop.

It may seem complicated but look at the conversation like so:

Peter: Future Hiro, this is all well and good, but how do you know all this!?
Future Hiro: Because you told me.
Peter: Well how in the hell did I know!?
Future Hiro: Because I told you.

(not saying this is how the ACTUAL conversation went, just giving an example of the theory in conversational form, relating to this event)

It's just a giant loop of destiny. Yes, destiny, which is a major factor in this show. Many of the characters, both good and bad talk of destiny as a real thing. And in many comics and fantasy / science fiction shows destiny can appear almost sentient.


Lets map out everything that happened, with my assumptions (using proof from the show) to justify this theory.

Hiro and Ando walk into the diner, gleefully being Japanese and sitting down to another one of their wonderful chats about american food...no doubt leading to another squeal of Asian joy from our oriental hero, Hiro.

The waitress comes to take their order, having already (for the audience) shown some fairly keen Jeopardy skills. Her and Hiro get to talking, sharing chemistry, and Americanized Japanese banter. That is where we get a quick hint that there is something strange with this girl. Where does she know Japanese from? Well Hiro and Ando, being men of the people, ask what we at home are wondering. How do you know Japanese silly waitress woman!? Well apparently a yet unnamed friend gave her a book of Japanese phrases for her birthday that she apparently hasn't gotten around to studying fully until fairly recently. Now that all is explained we sit there noticing a rather bored and somewhat silently sarcastic (hows that for an alliteration, I'm chock full of them) Ando, watching as young love blossoms.


We eventually come back to see Hiro and Charlie sitting far away from third wheel Ando (which is his AIM sn now). We see Hiro teaching the cute, cuddly, yet (as we know now) cursed Charlie how to speak Japanese. But all is not as it seems. She appears to know many words that arn't in the book. We know this is important because the writers went as far as to make our humble, habitually heteroclite hero, Hiro say "That's not in the book", which is a very important clue they intended for us to pick up on. Then, not soon after the first clue is tossed into our faces do we get another in the form of Charlie saying that Hiro's cheeks wobbling when he concentrates is cute. Now, granted, we didn't get a chance to see their entire conversation, but when has he ever had his cheeks wobble to "concentrate" other than when he is concentrating to use his powers? Never, and that's the point, before Hiro could think that through she walks away to be killed by the spooky, unshaven, (and from the looks of it) smelly Sylar.

Now this was not kosher for our peerless, power-enhanced protagonist. He was not going to let this slide. He would go back to fix this, to a day before, and keep her from going to work. He would make sure that this crush could develop into something more...maybe even allow him to get to second base! He tells Ando to count to five and that he'll be right back. Ando counts to five...no such luck.


Hiro doesn't go back a hour, or a day...or even a week. Our poor precocious protagonist goes back to six months ago...rather titular, eh? He is somewhat dumbfounded, and with just cause. We learn that maybe Hiro doesn't have quite as good a grip on his powers as we may have assumed. He tells her that he's from the future and that he is here to save her, and she is far from convinced. They take the dreaded photo that I will come back to later and live their lives for a little under six months. In that six month time period we learn some rather interesting things. Hiro teachers her Japanese while he appears to be getting a better grip on his own command of the English language. He works in the diner and gets to know everyone on a casual work related level. Another thing we learn here that is important is the fact that he was the friend who gave her the Japanese phrase book, furthering the idea that she in fact, remembered him from before and was already affected by his actions from traveling into the past (see loop theory above). So then we get down to the true romanticism. Hiro is continuing on his "you'll die soon lets get the hell out of here" rant and Charlie drops a bomb on him. Yes, she will die soon...but it matters not who does it...because she has an aneurism in her brain that will cause her to die. She has been enjoying their time together even though she normally doesn't let people get close because knowing she'd lose them when she dies would just make death that much harder, but Hiro changed all that and made her last days all the better. Just as they are declaring their undying love for each other Hiro gets sent out of time and back to some very aerobic Japanese business men who are somewhat confused as to why he's there...he's supposed to be on a sexy American vacation with his tall friend Ando...right?

So what happened here? Well the powers that be, the rift makers, manifested destiny...call it what you will...decided to kick him out. Nothing can be changed, even if you go in the past and try and change things, these are things that already happened in your timeline, and you may have even had a hand in causing them.

Everything is circular and predetermined. Nothing can be changed by going into the past, you are only following your destiny and doing what needed to be done in the first place for everything in the timeline to flow accordingly.

So with all this information three questions arise:


To answer that, it was a rhetorical cinematic device. For more information on that lets look at what the phrase "rhetorical device" means:

rhetorical device

n : a use of language that creates a literary effect (but often without regard for literal significance)

(in this case being used in regards to cinema not to a written work...even though this part was written in by the writers...but you get where I am coming from here)

Used many times it artsy French films it shows symbolism to get across a feeling or a mood, in this sense it's meant to show the passage of time (in this case backwards) and to give us a great cutaway to keep us on edge until next week.

And it worked...look how many days have gone by and it still blows our minds.


Come on, I mean we all want the little guy to get with Charlie...they would make adorable naive babies together. But lets face facts, there are greater things at work here. Destiny intervened and its as simple as that. He was getting to the point where his influence was no longer needed, so he was sent back...and at least he had a little under six months to be with the girl he loved...who apparently loved him back.


My vote goes to the fact that she was eventually convinced that yes, he did come from the future and i'm sure he told her the day it would happen. She went to work that day just to see him knowing it may kill her. She enjoyed the little time they spent together that day pretending she didn't know him, but still accidentally giving away clues (previously stated) until she walked into the backroom to have her head tragically mowed off.

I mean why waste the time that she was told may be her last day on Earth trying to explain to Hiro that he came back to tell her not to come that day. If she proceeds as usual then he would know anyway.

See, Charlie figured it out... but then again she is super smart.

Anywho if you disagree please give me the reasons why, and if I have an answer i'll sure give it. I am stuck working at this call center and this is one of the few forums I can post on...so I tend to leave it up all day and post inbetween calls.

I hope this wasn't too boring I tried to flair it up a bit for everyone so do me a favor and lets discuss this!

If your theory is correct, then why don't any of the other employees or regular customers recognize Hiro when he first arrives in episode 8?

I think I know the answer. Sloppy writing.

I think your theory is right by the way, that they can't change stuff, but if that's the case then there are a lot of plot holes.


I hate time travel stories. They always get horrible, especially when comic book writers write them. There is an instance in the DC story "Identity Crisis" where one of the bad guys (I forget his name) shows up and a couple other bad guys are surprised to see him, since he had died some time ago. It turns out this was a version of him from the past who had jumped in into the future.

So really, Hiro should never die, because he can constantly jump into the future, check to see how he died, and then fix it.







Ugh. And if it turns out your theory is right, Shirtless Sylar, that fate exists and everything is predetermined, why introduce the element of time travel at all? It makes the whole idea redundant and only serves to hinder the story's progression.

Of course, that would make sense too, so NBC can show as little as possible to milk the story for all it's worth.


UGH, and this is why I don't watch TV. Take "Lost" for example. I never watched it, but saw the first episode of season 3, which was a recap of the previous TWO seasons in one hour, and I was all caught up. I watched Lost for 4 episodes, realized NOTHING ever happened, and stopped watching.

If Heroes turns out the same way, then we'll have about an hours worth of actual story in about a year or two from now.

Shirtless Sylar: Thanks for your recap. It looks like that took some work! You have some interesting theories.



I agree with everything you've said, spineblaZe.

If the writers had change two things, it would have cut down of the recognition problem:

1) Have someone other than Hiro give the Japanese book to Charlie.

2) Change the conversation between Charlie and Hiro while they were sitting at the counter.

By the way, I feel the same way as you do about Lost. It just keeps getting dragged out. You aren't missing anything but frustration.

I share your fear about Heroes. I hope it doesn't take until third season to find out if Niki shot DL.

Interesting, but i still give credit to parallel dimensions theories.
Theories on parallel layers (Hugh Everett III, 1956) says that for every single change in the quantum particles in time, a new dimensional timeline is created. For example, if you this morning choose to dress in white, there must be another dimensional timeline where you choose to dress not in white, there's a single dimensional timeline for each of the single choice you made dressing yourself.
That's the case of Hiro past travel: he arrived in a differente timeline, where Charlie has powers, and she's addicted to death anyway although Hiro has come to save her. It's destiny, so no matter where timeline is regarding. Parallel dimensions theory says that you can't travel in a past or future period of the same timeline from you started. And time rift is happening where there are two timelines that are going to cross themselves: in a short period the multiverse will collapse, so "someone" kicked Hiro back. Was the multiverse force herself? Was Hiro's power himself?

See "Donnie Darko", the series "Sliders", "Quantum Leap", "End of endless" Asimov romance, etc. for same examples on parallel dimensions.

donnie darko is a terrible example for anything to do with time travel... it is based on a paradox that never happened and so is essentially about nothing... good film to watch though.

I don't think its conclusive exactly what happened. Now, I haven't rewatched the two shows to verify - but do you see any police in the diner after Hiro goes back in time? Any evidence at all that there has been a murder?

Did Sylar kill her or had she already been dead before they got there because of his actions? Maybe his disappearance at that moment caused her death to be sooner? If this is the case there is one victory - that Sylar doesn't have a perfect photographic memory.

One thing to support this interpretation (until later episodes verify or falsify) is that the alter to Charlie was there right after Hiro left and probably not before.

did you watch the episode.. and the previous one. in homecoming, she is in hrg sylar's victims file.. and at the end of this one you see her die in the same way.

Damn, i was gonna just browse the boards and not get involved, maybe post a few inconsiquential post here and there, get my count up slowly... But no, i had to read a thread about time travel.

Your all over complicating things. The timeline we are watching is Hiro's. When he first arived in the diner he hadnt as yet travelled back in time, hence no photo.
As soon as he travelled the photo arrived, and when the photo was pointed out Ando was informed that Hiro hung out with Charlie for a whlle, they were real tight.

Time wasnt altered till Hiro jumped. Any other way and Hiro's time travelling becomes Fate. In which case he has no controll over it.

He can clearly affect the timeline when he travels, but since he's the one doing it hes the only one whod be aware. Im not sure but im fairly certain when Peter talked to Ando after Hiro jumped he didnt say Why Hiro had gone, just that he had. I get the impression that Charlie died Before Sylar got to her, something Hiro did made a differance, we just dont know what because Hiro went forward again before she did whatever it was.

As i say, it doesnt have to be complicated. Hiro's personal timeline is still straight, it just zigs and zags around everyone elses. What would be interesting would be what happens should he ever talk to himself.

K.

the tangent universe theory is based on the director's own theory.

how does it explain time travelling ghosts who are merely caused by their own actions?

and for all those involved in the time discussion... THERE WAS NO FIRST TIME!

I think you're saying our same things using other words.
Traveller Hiro's personal timeline is straight, he affects it and change it. And it's composed including travels in time.
What's not straight is the travelling in time concept itself.
Do you think that he travelled to another dimension when he's gone in the past? Following your words, FATE has provided to design all the tangent universes causing the Charlie's death, in a way or in another.



YES, tangent universe in DD is a personal view of Kelly, but is BASED to the muliverse concept adopted in science from 1956.
Really do you think that hiro's journey is like Back to the future? STRAIGHT?

no... i believe that it is a looped time theory, only one universe... everything that happens always happens, but unfortunately the writers messed up the theory due to cinematic effect..

as for dd, multiple dimensions still do not explain time travelling ghosts. i am well aware of infinite dimensional theory, but dd is not an example of it.

Agreed

(lol) Fair enough, i stand corrected. Still dont like fate tho...

K.

... but the photo is wrong... it should never have shown charlie by herself.

Time travelling ghosts like the bunny of DD? He's a personal touch of the director, like the water and the artifact. Multiverse scientific theory are not involving any ghost

However, these are just theories (mine and yours), only the the series could answers our question in the future episodes. I don't think that authors made a big mess (that would be cinic)

Im sorry, but i just dont buy 'everything that happens always happens' that removes free will from the equation and i just cant accept that. Having said that tho, its a personal bias and the writers may well disagree with me (g)

Problem with time travel as a concept is everyone's got their own take and its a tough one to articulate unless your a hippy at a very drug ridden party. Personally i dont think times as delicate as most theorys state.

And as for Charrlie, i havent rewatched the episode to check, but that shrine could also be a good luck shrine for an operation that she decided she may as well go have given she was, acording to Hiro, going to die anyway.

K.

"Hiro travel back in time to rescue Charlie. I told him it wasn't a good idea, Peter Petrelli might call. But he insisted."

"What happened to her?"

"She was killed. We were sitting right here. It happen so fast. Next thing we know, she was dead and the killer was gone in a flash like... Okage. Ah... Boogey Man. Hiro said maybe it is the same man who is going to attack the cheerleader. I told Hiro, do over is too risky."

I think it is safe to say that Sylar still killed her, considering that any changes Hiro made in the past would have already taken effect in the future.


Heroes is playing out like a story. Any story, be it a book, a movie, what have you, shows destiny in action: the end will always be the end, no matter how many times you watch it. Even if free will is an illusion in the presence of overwhelming destiny, the interesting point is in watching how the story unfolds.

Except that is not what Hiro said to Peter. Watch the scene again.

And the photo proves that Hiro can affect the timeline. You can't highlight the evidence that supports your theory and totally dismiss the evidece that disproves it.

No fate but what you make and all the jazz.

Hiro can clearly change HIS timeline (the picture) but in a same clear way he can NOT change OTHERS timeline (charlie's death).

Now i'm thinking to Claire... she was safe anyway, because of Jackie? Or did she really risked to be killed by Sylar? If Hiro can change others timeline, why Charlie's timeline was not affected? If Hiro can't, why Claire has saved by his premonition?

Of course it should have shown her alone. Hiro had not gone back in time "yet." The show is obviously not using a rigid time travel universe, they are using a more common style of time travel used in most Sci Fi (such as Doctor Who or Back to the Future).

Anyway, I wrote a long post about it on these forums, and that post has slipped way down, so I'll just provide a link:

http://www.9thwonders.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=39902

Lewis

i just read everybody's opinion and one thing is true..you all need to get some action ASAP

Even if I were to alter my future by getting some action, as you suggest, I would still be posting long-winded articles about time travel. Therefore, I do not understand your recommendation for altering my time stream. They would be essentially identical.

Lewis

and i have written many proving this theory wrong. essentially, your assumptions hail from our hiro being the first to do so as his timeline is the one relative to the show. unfortunately, this assumption negates the existence of future hiro, who we knew returned, as this occurred before the whole charlie thing.

You havent proved anything to me. Your comment about future Hiro happening before the Charlie incident only has bearing in a rigid time model. The show is clearly not using that model.

In the model I'm talking about, the one used by Doctor Who and other shows, Hiro could commit suicide, and that would not necessarily have stopped Future Hiro from going back, or prevented Future Hiro from existing at all. Also, Future Hiro going back before the Charlie incident actually happens after the Charlie incident ... if you take my meaning. However, even though it will (has happened), it may never happen. Or it could happen again. The loose model doesnt work even remotely like the rigid model.

But thats OK. We can both have different views of the model and enjoy the show from a different perspective. I respect your opinion, and see where you are coming from, I just dont share it.

In the model I use, paradox is never possible, and always present.

Lewis

the only way that that would be possible would be with infinite alternate dimensions.. and hiro is travelling to different dimensions and not through time. this is the only way that he could kill himself and future hiro still exist. it also means that hiro cannot change his timeline. oh... but he's already done that.

whether he said he could or not doesn't matter. the problem arises in the fact that he did, but we should not have seen it... but we did, which indicates linear time.

the fact that he calls himself in japan means that charlie will always be killed by sylar, indicating looped time. the emergence of future hiro also indicates looped time.

unfortunately one contradicts the other.

Well this is all very interesting. It reminds me of many, many wasted nights at college discussing time travel, diminsional parallels, UFOs, and various spiritualism and mysticism only to realize that I had class at 9:05am and would likely not go. lol, yeah that worked out well.
I would agree and disagree with parts of all of the above, but the point is, it's a theory in the works. Something for us to figure out. The creator and writers of the TV SHOW are not terribly limited by reality since this is a story about people with super-human powers that supposedly just spontaneously evolved. They are free to set the boundaries of thier own world as they see fit, and it's our pleasure to sit back and enjoy it. This show is heavily based on a more real-world-friendly version of a comic book. That's why there are sci-fi/fantasy conventions found within it.
As far as I can tell from the eps, they are presenting Hiro's journey and so there is a 'first' time for every loop that he starts. There is a somewhat linear perspective for him, but for everyone else it's reactive and therefore a bit of a looped or skewed perception compared to his perceptions. We are getting to see a bit of both, which is confusing sometimes.
I say we not nit-pick so much. These writers and creators got this gig because they earned it. They put in their time and have proven their chops. I'll bet the real issue with all the 'mistakes' and 'broken' theories here is our perception of what is going on because we don't have all the details just yet.
K, just my $.03
Resume!

Infinite alternate dimensions dont have to exist, and in fact no other simultaneous dimensions have to exist. However they could exist. And yes, he can change the timeline in the loose model and remove himself from part of it and still exist. He could also get killed in the past and cease to exist and then later save himself, because "before" his future self ceased to exist, it had had an adventure where it was removed from all time stream entirely and then found it necessary to rescue himself. Lets not even talk about time drifts, time eddys, time whirlpools, time bubbles, reverse time, sideways time, a time matrix, potential time energy, or "before" or "after" time (as opposed to outside of time).

I can only suggest you watch all 30 years of Doctor Who. We still wont agree, but you'll have fun. I also recommend picking up GURPS Time Travel if you can still find a copy these days.

Lewis

I have seen multiple posts stating that Hiro could not change time. But does he actually say that? I thought he said, "I couldn't save her." Did I miss some of the dialog? (I will have to watch it again.) I am not trying to argue the various time travel theories, though none has wrapped it up tight for me (hey, I'm an engineer, I like tidy boxes).

But if all Hiro said was that he couldn't save her then this has no bearing on whether he can change time. It just indicates that he is limited in the changes he CAN affect in the future. Her death was inevitable so why cause further damange/change/rifts by continuing a course of action that could not accomplish the intended goal.

Well Hiro and Isaac both have difficult powers to wrap around and without a degree in astrophysics i think the writers and producers are doing a good job

Isaac predicts a cheerleader dying in the future,
Hiro witnesses a cheerleader dying in the future,

these two (BUT ONE) events can not be changed if i follow the conventions that are on this forum..

Peter must save THE cheerleader from dying but still
-----a cheerleader MUST die

Peter prevents Clair (THET) cheerleader from dying (mission accomplished) but Jackie a cheerleader MUST still die


Hiro witnesses Charlie dying but Hiro wants to SAVE Charlie

Charlie was a loner never letting anyone close but is SAVED by Hiro she lives to enjoy a whole six months with some she falls in love with (EVEN though they never get to do the nasty which i was soo hoping would happen but television isn't there yet having a dorky asian sleep with a beautiful white woman YES i said it)...

Charlies dying was not avoided but Charlie was saved!

The new question is "can an event that occur actually be changed?" and i think the writers are really scratching their head on how to do it cuz they definitely have to change prevent NEW YORK from blowing up...

lets wait and see how they approach it...

Cheers

when does hiro see a cheerleader die.

I've read all this, and you are getting into personal feelings on time travel and what not.

The problem is, this theory has the most in show proof out of any other one I have read. The only thing people try to use to disprove it is the changing photo.

I gave you a very reasonable explanation for that...so now it just comes down to what you believe.

I say, since all this is apparently supposed to be over with (for now at least) someone write the writers and send them some of these theories and just ask them which one they prescribe to, or if they go a little differently?

Anywho I still say the show has given us more than enough proof to support my theory.

Next, to respond to the person who said that Future Hiro didn't have that conversation with Peter about peter having told him to come back...uhm...watch it again.

He even says "MAKE SURE TO TELL ME WHERE WE MEET", how much more proof do you need?

In the episode Hiro's , Future Hiro says to Peter... Save the cheerleader, Save the world...

He may not have seen a cheerleader die but witnessed it (in a form of experience the after effects of a Clair's death)...

lol did you even read my post...do I have to explain every single occurance?

Hiro gave it to her, thats why she has it.

Hiro got the idea, because she said she had one.

Giant loop.

Read my post again, if you want more info on this.

I still don't understand why travelling in his timeline Hiro can't change it.. i mean HIRO, a guy who can bend time e space.
Hiro is travelling to different dimensions AND through time, he's gone in the past of another dimension. He can change HIS OWN PERSONAL timeline, probably not the others.
I'm agreeing with the one talked about a cheerleader to die... maybe she ever was Jackie and not Claire! This could work very well in terms of NOT changing other timelines And in facts, future Hiro comes from a dimension who seems to respect the premonitions. Remember, considering Charlie, that fate can't change.

And i disagree with the story telling that if past Hiro is in his Tokyo office, Charlie will be killed for sure by Sylar. These were another hiro and another charlie since it's another dimensional timeline. Very similar to the original that we're following, addicted to the same fatal events, but still another dimension.

I think the main point is, there is not, currently, enough information on which to form concrete laws for the "Heroes" universe.

Part of what I find entertaining about this series, is trying to figure out what those laws are...

Some folks seem to be getting hung up on the details of what is and is not possible in time travel. I'm pretty sure no one here has claimed to be a time traveler, and therefore, no one knows what the "laws" of time travel are. Any speculation is just that, speculation.

The most interesting question for me, is why Hiro "snapped" back to Japan. I agree with other posters here, that Fate, the Powers, the Universe, whatever, intervened when the level of paradox rose too high.

I also believe that we, the audience, see Hiro's timeline, as a literary convention. So in Hiro's linear timeline, there is a "first time" for everything. Hiro, able to travel through time and space, is capable of instigating loops. Charlie, and the rest of the diners, did not know Hiro when he entered the diner "the first time."

this could never happen. claire never dies.



hiros timeline is the same as everyone elses in that timeline.

You're all quite insane.

[btw, nothing still properly explains the Japanese Phrasebook]

I have to agree. And it's not just the time travel aspects of the show that have a lot of plot holes, there are a bunch of other things as well. (Some of which I listed in another post but will mercifully not repeat here.)

I'm probably hated by a lot of people in this forum as well as by the writers if they lurk and/or post in here. You know, the really sad thing is I like the show. It's just that there are an increasing number of things that are self-contradictory, I wonder how much longer I can sustain my suspension of disbelief.

At time, I think they should just rename this show to Deus ex Machina.

Agreed.

I read a lot of comic books, but I rarely enjoy them. Most storylines get so insanely exaggerated and, like you said, break their own rules and start to develop so inconsistly that they become absurd.

I hope Heroes doesn't turn out the same way.

The problem with one of the photo theories is that it's based on the supposition, or guess, that the photo at one point didn't have Hiro in it. Since we never see the photo before Hiro actually goes back six months we are left to assume that he changed something after he went back. This is a narrative problem on the part of the writers. Had we seen the photo with Hiro in it before he actually went back we would know for sure that the one time-line theory is plausible.

The multiverse theory cannot be plausible either because we witness Hiro giving Charlie the Japanese book, which would lend more weight to the one-timeline theory. Again there is so far nothing to support a multiverse theory.

The only thing that negates the one timeline thoery is the fact that no one else recognized Hiro, other than Charlie according to the Topic Starter. Even Charlie's recognition, at the counter according to the first Post, seemed way too subtle, it was for me at least. I think if she did indeed know that that was the Hiro from six months ago it would have been a powerful dramatic device had we known somehow that she recognized him.

No one said that they didn't know him either.

It had been a few weeks and both him and Ando were in the back of the Diner...the first person to talk to them was Charlie and I gave my reasons already why she might have stayed quiet on the entire ordeal. So when him and Charlie were having that talk they would appear as old lovers catching up after weeks apart...so who would barge in on that?

When it comes down to it, they couldn't show everyone recognizing him in that episode or else the big cliff hanger of "can he save Charlie!?" would already be known.

Come on people, face facts, this is how the writers decided to go with this.

So what about the aneurysm?

Dude, your theory is the best i've heard so far.
It covers everything in my mind.

I really like your take on the picture. I can definately see the writers thinking of a way to leave us on the edge of our seats and easily agreeing to wander slightly from their time travel law to give the viewers a kick.

Kilos of Killer Kudos for you sir!

gooday

P.S. now i know why every customer service rep i speak to transfers me to a different department, they're busy concocting Heroes theories on the web. lol

lol yeah we are so busy with the Christmas season here, it took me a LONG time to type all that up (kept getting delayed due to lengthy calls lol)...but I was happy with it once it was finished.

BTW, digging the username, I hope they use that phrase in the series.

Anyone watch Futurama? I like their interpretation of time travel (though it changes slightly from show to show). It's basically what the first poster said. In one episode Fry and the crew go back to the 50's being careful not to make any changes that might affect the future. Anyway it turns out Fry is his own Grandfather and always was -- their tirade was already in the history books. What's this called...self-fulfilling prophecy? Anyway...

Issac's paintings could also be used as evidence to further the original poster's position. The web-comic shows one of Issac's paintings coming true because the painting existed. Since looking into the future is equivalent to traveling into the past, this could be analogous to Hiro's experience.

Definitely, also see the movie Twelve Monkeys...same kind of idea.

Anywho...I wonder if Issac's paintings are doomed to come true no matter what? Literally everything he's painting has come, or appears that it is geared to come, to pass.

I guess we'll see by the end of the season if New York goes BOOM.

How is it that anyone who's met Hiro wouldn't recognize him after seeing him again, given that he is such a outgoing happy, and more to the point, loud character.

Your point about them recognizing him is interesting, and I agree, but then why make it so difficult to realize that Charlie knew? I still don't think there is a point in Charlie's intro episode where it's shown decisively that she knew. If this is how the writers decided to go then they left out what could have been a very interesting emotional device. I think your topic starter is a very good example and evidence of your theory though. I just didn't think it was that easy for anyone to pick it up. Some people were going with the multiverse theory, perhaps because they read too many comics.

I just came up with an idea. Hiro was unable to "leap" when he returned to the present right? He got back to the diner via conventional transportation. How long would it take to go from Japan to the diner? We aren't certain how long Ando has been waiting. So, Hiro could have returned back to the time he left, but returned to Japan. Then he had to travel back to the diner. Could be?

How about this idea, Hiro is anchored to the present when he leaps. His power expires after a duration of time and will return him back to the present (but not necessarily WHERE he left).