Calm and rational arguments only please!

If you want to discuss/defend your thoughts, comments, or review of the episode, post below!

We don't mind a lively debate, but a reminder that name calling is not "debating".

I'm very disappointed with a lot of problems in this season. This show was spectacular in season 1, but it's just being sloppy so far this season. Here are some "for examples" from just tonights episode:

1. Sylar has always been careful about killing people. He only kills those necessary for his advancement, plus his mom (which was accidental). We also know that he was able to detect the general issue with a hero before from the flashback dealing with his encounter with the telekinetic. SO, why then did he kill candice. Furthermore, why was he digging through her head. Even moreso, why was he then trying to use her power? It would be obvious that his power was not working. He would not know where to start, much less actually think he had acquired her power. If they followed his previous mantra of extremely thoughtful execution, he probably would not have even killed Candice, but rather waited until he actually had the ability to absorb her power again.

2. Why is Claire upset that her dad tagged the kid? She KNEW that's what he did. He told her it's what he did, and that he regrets it. She knows he's done a lot of bad things to people. It's NOT a revelation, so why is she surprised and upset? She was so level-headed in the first season that it is a real disappointment to see her become this over-emotional juvenile little girl this season.

3. I feel like the current Hiro saga is like watching an episode of Xena: Warrior Princess. It doesn't fit with the serious outlook on the rest of the show. Newsflash: The reason Hiro is a great character is because of his optimism when faced with a bleak world. The situation in the past lacks any sort of drama or urgency to balance against his optimism. It is not working.

4. Can we have ANOTHER adult talk about how everyone needs to hide and ANOTHER kid talk about how they want to express their powers because it's who they are? Please? I don't think that point has been beaten into the viewer enough yet.

5. The two people trying to get to the USA -- OK, you REALLY messed up on this one. Are they supposed to be sympathetic characters? Because let me tell you what I just saw: I just saw an evil, self-centered, uncaring girl wipe out an entire police station of non-corrupt police officers as well as any prisoners because she wanted to be near her brother. That puts her in the "EXTREMELY EVIL" spectrum. She knew what she was doing. And this isn't something that can ever be redeemed. It's not like running a car through a wall and possibly accidentally hitting someone. This is coming up with a gun and shooting each person in the head so you can be near someone. I sincerely hope that the goal is to make that duo a villanous couple eventually, or at least her, because I will never be able to feel for her again. By the way, I commend you for making the officers into good cops who actually did their job instead of the stereotypical "corrupt mexican police."

6. Everyone knew HRG was going to die when he made his "as long as I'm alive" comment. Then you beat the point in with a hammer when you showed the painting. Please return to subtlety. We aren't stupid. Just like with the kids wanting to express their powers -- we get it. Now please move the show along. Also please stop with flashbacks of what happened last episode. Believe it or not, it was LAST WEEK. We saw him heal. No need for beating it in with a sledgehammer.


I could go on and on. I loved the first season so much, it's kind of painful to see where the new season is going. We were at least hoping that Sylar just thought he had killed Candice, but that she was really fooling him. My friends and I made it a point to get together and watch season 1 every Monday, but we've decided to give this about 3 more episodes before we quit.

I would have join the debate...if there's something interesting in this episode. But there isn't.

But didn't he heal them after they dropped? And isn't she serving the greater good by making sure she stays near her brother and doesn't irreversably kill the whole city/country/world?

Otherwise, I agree with you on all the other weaknesses of this episode... drove me nuts.

He healed them. However, as evidenced by the trail of bodies in their wake, that is not reliable. She went in there expecting people to die, and even forcing it to happen just to be with her brother. He even tells her she did it on purpose and she just kind of shrugs. She's a sociopath and has now committed 1st degree attempted murder.

The greater good would be her staying the heck away from anyone, not murdering a police station full of people.

I have to wonder...

does Maya really need her brother? Or does she THINK she needs her brother? And what would happen if she got over that hurdle.

Thanks for starting off! I, too, am so far disappointed, but still sticking with it hoping they strat to tie things together a little cleaner.
in response...

1. Sylar probably thought that he lost his powers, not that he couldn't actually use them (that's what I thought). He was also frustrated and was peobably drugged up for some time and not thinking clearly because of the stabbing and 8 surgeries. Simply his head was not clear.

2. It is one thing to hear about it, but then to know someone that yu have a crush on talk about going through it himslef.. it kind of hits home - a new level of reality. I didn't think she was that level-headed in the first season. Just as in the 1st season, in the second she is still a teenager and still thinks like a teenager. No offense to teens (I was one too), but teens do have a different way of thinking than most adults... it is part of growing ( see psychology information on concrete/operational thinking etc.. there are four different levels of thinking we all go through).

3. BIG RED X! I had so much hope for this story line, but your right.. it is like Xena.

4. LOL. It reminds me of Kim Bauer in the first season of 24. I swear for like four episode in a row all she did was repeat the same lines to her love interest/captor about how he needs to do something and think for himself. It was cute and heart-warming at first, but has become space filler, sadly.

5. To be fair.. it was for the greater good. Without her brother, she could potentially kill more. And she got to her brother before anyone actually died. But yeah.. I question if that was her intentions, however.


If she was completely unselfish she would do this, but that would probably end up in her death and that is where a person's survival instincts kick in, which are very difficult to override.

6. Not everyone that watches the show (or any show for that matter) to use it as an opportunity to think -- many still just watch to be consumers of the entertainment and don't want to be involved, which is why they repeat stuff like this not to lose them and they show "peviously on Heroes" for these same people and for people who are new to the show. (I wish I could find it, but there was this great essay I read on the net a couple of years ago where they expected that the internet would be mainly us as the consumers and the big corps (eg tv stations dot.com companies) would feed us information, but as it turned out, more things were being uploaded to the internet by us so-called consumers than being downloaded, making us active participants and how this has effect how we watch tv etc.. we are quickly becoming more involved, but the big corps are having difficulties adjusting... of course then they think og great things such as ARG and message boards to help us be involved./tangent)

(sorry if none this is a bit jumbled.. I have two broken hands and it took too much effort to go back and edit )

1. Sylar has always killed to satisfy his need for power and for his need to be special. It was especially important for him to take Candice's power as a way to re-establish his path back to his 'specialness'. For Sylar, this (acquiring power) is an "evolutionary imperative".

2. Claire has been confronted with he father's work effecting a close friendship in the past and no doubt, West's revelation has opened an old wound.

3. Hiro wants to see his childhood hero realize his rightful place in history. For this is a source of deep cultural pride for him. He realizes that he must take a hand in causing these historic events to actually happen. He also realizes that he may cause a problem ( a temporal paradox ) should he linger in the past too long. And, last but not least, he has fallen in love again.

4. They are kids who have fantastic gifts that they can not share openly. They are understandably frustrated. Imagine being given a really nice car as a teen and not being allowed to drive it...to show off a little. Understanding and patience are what the parents are demonstrating.

5. Had she actually killed the officers and prisoner that would have been unthinkable. But, to risk not having her brother's help and truly becoming a killing machine is much worst. Wouldn't you agree?

6. The painting is the last of eight in this particular series. Knowing that the future can be altered, even as it was with his daughter and the bomb, Bennet has reason to believe that he can change this outcome, given enough information (namely, the first seven paintings in the series). This should prove to make for a very thrilling undertaking!

Hey Creator, I don't think anyone disagrees with your assertions here. My criticism has nothing to do with the themes so much as the execution. This season, so far, has been a huge disappointment from a directing and editing standpoint. It's also been very heavy-handed with some of the themes they are aiming for, such as the struggle for some people to fit in vs. others who want to be themselves. It's like the writers lost faith in the viewing audience and are now putting big glowing signs all over the place instead of just letting them progress as in the first season. They are overusing or at least using the wrong kind of foreshadowing. They are overlooking established and important personality issues established in season one. It's just simply not as good a show so far this season as last season. I am, for one, hoping they turn it around in the next couple episodes so that it can pick up. Right now, though, I'm pretty disappointed.


But at least it's better than Bionic Woman


EDIT: By the way, on the flashbacks, I'm not referring to the pre-show reminders. I'm talking about the one this episode that Hiro all of a sudden reminisced about how he pulled the arrows out and it healed. It was useless filler during the show, and it took away from an already weak and irritating segment.

Also very disappointed by this episode.
The only interesting information we got was that Hiro has a way to communicate with Ando, and that HRG might die soon.
All the rest was in the previews (Sylar, Jessica, West/Claire).

1. I also thought that he thought that he lost his abilities, not forgot how to use them. I'm not seeing a probem there. Also he was mad at that time and I can see how that maybe affected his decisions. In fact: I do not see how Candice/Michelle/Betty/Whatever could've been any use to him alive. And Sylar is not the kind of guy who's teaming up with somebody like that.

2. Agreeing with Creator on that one.

3. Looks like a Charlie-ish problem there. Anyway, I think the thing about Hiro staying in Japan is more about watching the evolution of Kensei than Hiro himself.

4. So because we saw that kind conversations before the characters should just be fine with that and go on? Problem solved? The whole thing about Heroes is to watch people dealing with their powers and the life they live because of them.

5. Right. Leaving her brother and by doing so eventually killing a lot more people would've been better. She also knew that the effects caused by her power can be reversed. She knew the risks and took a shot.
Also remember that people aren't just Good and Bad / White and Black. The keyword here's "grey".


It's been three episodes. How a season can be a huge disappointment after three episodes is beyond me.

They just put the "Hiro reminder" not at the beginning of the episode. They used them to show us that at this point Ando knows as much about Hiro as we do. And it's not like it took 5 minutes to do that.


My $.02

I'm surprised to hear that so many people are having problems with this season. I think it's a few hundred times better than the first season, which I wasn't all too impressed by. I enjoyed season one, but "enjoyed" is about it. I wasn't blown away or addicted or compelled to watch every episode as soon as possible. But I think this new season is so much better paced, more intriguing, better written, directed and acted. And though a lot of people agree, it seems that plenty of people are also bashing it. I have to say, I'm shocked! From the season premiere, I knew s1 wasn't going to hold a candle to s2 for me, and I was right...I personally think the quality has rocketed immeasurably. I'm so taken aback that people are talking about how bad it is

My two cents: Sorry but I'm not disappointed with this season AT ALL! Just ticks me off that there are waaaaay
too many commercial breaks!

Thank you, skully. This season is incredible so far.

This confused me to. I wondered why he would kill her if she was trying to help and also told him he would get his powers back over time. Simple answer: He's now completely psychotic, and they did this scene to show us how bad it really is.

She's seeing things from the point of view of someone who's been bagged and tagged. Sure, she's been told about it by her dad and others, but she had no real connection to them. Now that she cares for this kid, the things that her dad did to him aren't so easy to forgive. She's touched one of the lives that her dad may have destroyed, if you will. Not to mention that she finally thought that she had a chance to be normal, have a friend that understands her. Now she can't even do the normal thing and bring him home to meet the folks...might be a little awkward.

Yeah, I totally agree. The only good thin till now was that Takezo Kensei is special, too, and that peter kinda has to find his powers again. So its like their beginning.
Sylar is kinda unpatient and unthoughtful. I mean he doesnt even know where he is and now ends up in some jungle Oo. I dont get that. Anywayz, that he lost his powers is also weird. I mean does he eat them and than save them in his chest? Because it kinda seems like it after he got stabbed into the chest ^^.
And than this Mexcian guys.
Totally true. I mean what the heck is her power. Turning into some evil thingy or what? And her brother is the opposite of it ^^. Seems kinda weird. Lets hope she is going to turn a little bit more Hero like.
Hiro, well lets just say he always was my favorite character. Okay he fell in love BUT he knows that he has to go back. What I dont get is why doesnt he. I mean he finally has his dad who already is dead which he doesnt know, on his side but he stays in the past where he could probably change the hole future of what he is so much aware. He always reminds one of that but doesnt do anything against it.
So I still love Heroes. I just hope itll get a little more complicated and far more deep. I want to think. Not just watch and say oh well thats it..

As I've said, I'm personally totally blown away by this season...I love Kensei and I'm finally into Peter, but I also think the rest of the show so far is simply incredible as well. Sylar's storyline is obviously going to be my favorite, same as last season...yet where last season I was barely interested in any storylines besides Sylar's, it looks like this season, I'm going to be completely hooked on all of them.

He didn't know he was in the middle of the jungle. I'm sure he assumed he was just somewhere back home, at a holding facility. His killing Candice didn't seem unthoughtful or out of place to me at all...he specifically said that line about how everything he'd worked for was gone - this is Sylar we're talking about...the guy who NEEDS to be special. And look, there was someone with an amazing ability right in the room with him. Of course he was going to kill her, he's a psychopath. And remember, he expected to gain her ability, which he probably assumed would help him escape from wherever he was. But he wasn't able to use her power, so that messed him up. He also didn't know he was in the middle of nowhere. Didn't seem impatient or thoughtless to me though, seemed like typical Sylar.



I still don't believe that he "lost" his powers. All evidence so far points to him having the virus, in my opinion. Maybe he does, maybe not. It's just the theory I'm running with until something comes up that says otherwise. And Sylar doesn't "eat" powers. We don't know what he does with the brains yet, but cannibalism is the least likely option. Seems to me from Candice's death that he just studies them and alters his DNA to do the same thing.

They are not Mexican. They are crossing into Mexico and trying to pass through it to cross into the US. Their actual place of origin is up for debate (seems to be either the Dominican Republic or Honduras), but they're absolutely not from Mexico.




She is a disease. A walking plague. Her brother is the cure. I found it pretty straightforward, though I know a lot of people were confused after the first episode. I think they're the most interesting powers Heroes has presented so far.



I'm so shocked to hear people say that. I've found this season to be far more interesting, more mysterious, deeper and ten times more riveting than the first. To each his or her own, I guess

Completely agree here. Sylar is not the same character as last season. He's gone completely off the deep end after what he did to mommy dearest. His noodle is a bit scrambled, if you get my drift.

I also wasn't too pleased with the discussion regarding Sylar's survival from the sword thrust. It's just too comic booky (if that's a word). THAT'S the best they could come up with? Oh, you got stabbed through the heart, I came along and carried you away through the sewers of NYC, got you to a (obviously well trained surgeon who can perform this type of surgery and get the patient through it who works for a nefarious company) in time prior to you dying from that huge hole in your heart, and now you are recovering here with this psychotic woman/shapeshifter/hallucinogen former who is seeing to your recovery. Oh, well, that sure makes sense. OK, sounds fine to me. Great writing and creativity I must say. Bravo! If that's the level of writing and conjecture that they want us to go by, then I fear what's in store for the rest of the season. I'm seeing more and more negative comments by the writers on these boards to feel that the future of this series is anything but in trouble. I have to say that my patience is wearing a bit thin.

I liked their explanation for his survival. It's pretty much what I was expecting - how would you have explained it? Sylar's always been resilient when it comes to injuries. There are a lot of times he should have died, but didn't. At least once it involved the company, who operated on him to save his life. Why is this turn so surprising? It makes the most sense to me. Sylar isn't invincible, but he also doesn't die like most others would under should-be fatal circumstances. That was shown to us all throughout S1. I don't care for the idea of Candice having been the one to drag him into the sewer...I was hoping it would've been someone more interesting, but it's not unbelievable. Candice is still working for someone, obviously, and whether it's the company or someone else, the people she works for (very expectedly) have plenty of resources to patch someone up. Considering Sylar's already quite resistent to injury, and they put him through 8 surgeries to keep him from dying, I can believe that. As for Candice watching him - why not? I loved it. She's been shown to be pretty reckless and unstable herself...I could see her and even other people believing that Sylar would go for the bad girl who promises to make him super powerful again. And then he does something unexpected (though we all knew it would happen). I thought it was quite creative the way it was done, loved the dialogue, directing and acting, and was all around completely thrilled by his scenes.

This is the worst episode of the new season so far, and has managed to ****** me off thoroughly with Candice's death. Hopefully next week's episode will be better, as in, better written and planned out.

I think that all of the charaters acted well within their parameters - in the fact that they are all in different aspects of their lives, that is they are all "beginning" again:
Peter, amnesia just discovering powers that he doesn't realize he has
Sylar, fully aware of all his powers that won't work
Claire, no longer hiding her power
Kensei/Kane just discovering his power(s)
HRG, realizing things may not be under his control as he thought
Wonder Twins, killing/saving people to get the "cure" [one without the other is devastating]
Hiro, once again ensuring the past is preserved while messing with the future
etc., etc., etc.
However the show is at a slower pace with a gawd awful amount of comercial advertisment, that in itself can kill anything, couple it with a slghtly less strong script to help bring the newbies in and up to speed and that will present a less desirable viewing plreasure for "die hard" fans.
However I am intrigued with the new stories and developments, but like many others I could do without certain characters - however I am in it for the long run and am already anticipating the HD-DVD for Season two and can't wait on Season 3

1. Candice had told Sylar that not only could she change her appearance, but that she could take him anywhere he wanted to go, New York, Paris, Japan.
The audience knew she meant mentally, as in making him think he was there, the way she made him think he was on the beach.
Sylar obviously interpreted this to mean teleportation, as the first thing he did after "acquiring" her powers was to try to go somewhere else by calling out the name of the place.
Now, we know he is still recovering from his surgeries, and that he had been heavily medicated (look at the IVs he had on). So it is possible that he "misread" Candice's brain and didn't actually acquire her power after all.
But we also know without a doubt that he is a psychopath.

Incidentally, the commentary to this episode indicates that they had indeed planned an arc spanning several episodes where Candice and Sylar would travel together.
This storyline was abandoned when the actess who originally played Candice was hired on another series and was no longer available. Another actress was chosen to fill the void (since she can assume any form) but by that time they had rewritten the storyline to have her killed.

2. Claire, like all teenagers, is struggling to deal with the changes her body is undergoing. And her's is undergoing a lot more changes than most! Anyone who has had a teenager can tell you of the mood swings and the faulty reasoning they sometimes use. (I know, I did the same thing once!)
She knows what her dad did, but now she is face to face with someone who's life he actually touched. She sees the results of what her father did. And it just happens to be someone she cares about.
She also is realizing that no matter where she goes, she will run into either the company or its effects. She cannot escape them. This has to be a terrifying realization.

3. I like the Hiro saga so far. Not only does it answer for us a little of the question many were asking of what happened to turn pHiro into fHiro, but it seems as though it is laying the groundwork for an epic event in future episodes. We already know that Kensei is played by the same actor who plays Kane. We are being set up for a revelation of the company and the original 12. If Kane is one of the 12, then it is good to know his backstory, where he came from and perhaps his motivations for certain things he will do.
This storyline, while different from the rest, is actually serving several purposes. In that it is succeeding.
It also succeeds in that it is very entertaining!

4.Wow!
Ummm. Okay.
The creators have stated that the theme of last season was "Ordinary people doing extraordinary things."
They say this season's theme is "Extraordinary people doing ordinary things."
In other words, last season we saw people finding out they could do amazing things, and then starting to learn to cope.
This season is all about how they go on with their lives.
Parents understand the need to hide these abilities from others, the need to be as incognito as possible so that you avoid the adverse attention it would bring, and also to avoid the company!
The children are reacting as children would in real life, not understanding why they can't do what they can do. Why it wouldn't be good to let others know about their abilities.
I like the dynamic this is showing. As each child and adult will come to different realizations of how it impacts their life.

5.I think the biggest problem with this storyline is that it is so chopped up. And that we still aren't sure exactly what their abilities are. Last season was fresh and new, and we were willing to wait to find out. Now, since we know what the other heroes can do already, there is a tendency towards impatience. (I want to know NOW!).
I like the fact that she was decisive in what she had to do. She knows without a doubt that without her brother, people will die around her. He is her guardian and protector. She depends on him. That is one of the dynamics of some twins, an interdependence on one another.
She knew that as soon as she was reunited with her brother, the men would be healed. Therefore she was willing to put them through temporary pain and suffering to be reunited with the one who could prevent widespread pain and suffering.
I liked that. I feel you were just looking at it the wrong way.
It is also possible that she had been in hiding, away from others, until the book by Suresh came to her attention. (the GN has her brother reading it. She reads it in the first episode, so they both are reading and sharing what they learn with each other, just like twins would.)
They are going to America in search of a cure so that she can be normal.
Nothing sinister in that..

6. While it may seem obvious to some of us, there are viewers who have to be hit over the head with something to get it (notice how many people couldn't make the connection that the car they are using to escape from jail is Claire's that was stolen, even though it has a conquistadors bumper sticker!)
I like the fact that we were shown the painting, as it dispels any disbelief and gives reason for the "heroes" to once again try and avoid a terrible future.
Will Claire see the painting and try to help her dad avoid it?
Will we again see a future that would be, if not for pHiro's involvement?
And what progression of events leads to this final, horrifying moment?
Do the other paintings reveal multiple deaths? (ie-more than one original 12 member dead at a time?)
Do they give clues to when HRG will die (like the montage of HomeComing paintings)


All in all, I am pleased with the direction this season is taking, although I agree that it is taking its own sweet time getting there.
During the 2.3 Commentary, they acknowledged that they have a lot of storylines going on at once currently, and for the moment are trying to visit them all to catch us up. I am sure that once the ball really gets rolling, not only will we see episodes focus on fewer storylines at a time, but that several of the storylines will be consolidated (won't give any spoilers, but there at least 2 of the storylines will collide in the next episode or two and merge!)

If I have any problems so far, it is that Peter didn't look in the box! (although, I feel it is probably empty, anyway. He probably just said his name while he was unconscious).
However, I must admit that Peter looks a lot more confident this year (due, no doubt, to his lack of forelock intruding in a girlish fashion).
While he still doesn't know what he is capable of, he isn't quite the timid little emo he was last season.
And I think this is a necessary change, if he is going to be able to stand up to any bad guys.

I thought this episode was pretty awesome.. only thing missing here so far is more Nathan screentime .. yessurr

let the writers have their chance to adjust to this new season

Sorry epi.

Candice went out WAAAAAAYYYYY too easy.

Peter didn't open the box.

DL got a tombstone. No scene or hint of explination. Just Peter with his powers, his son goin to NO, and a Tomb Stone.

R.I.P Daniel Lawrence at least now I know your name.

This episode is mostly just a repetition of what we already know from the first two episodes, which is why it's extremely frustrating. It doesn't help that the same boring storyline is the one that keeps getting repeated (the twins, Claire/West, Peter in Ireland).

Hiro hiding notes in the sword in a compartment that says "Ando Open" is pretty dumb... like no one in the history of the world would open it until later? Aaagh.

Please take Hiro out of ancient Japan... and please get Peter out of Ireland, or at least give him something more to do than run around with criminals.

Regarding Peter not opening the box ... while the fangirl inside me was super disappointed in that (I want some more Petrelli brother scenes!), I think it makes sense in-character. Peter realized his potential for evil when he started strangling the Irish mobster Darth Vader-style (or Sylar-style, depending on your point of view), and if I were in his shoes, I think I'd be pretty hesitant to open that box too. He thinks he could be a bad guy, and why risk learning about a life you don't want when the life you have now, and the woman you've met, are good and comfortable?

I agree that these few episodes so far don't have the same *feeling* that season 1 did, and I sort of started feeling that near the very end of season 1, but there's still a lot of season 2 to go and I'm definitely willing to stick around. Heroes became very popular very fast, and I think a lot of disappointment in the fans might stem in part from high expectations and/or nostalgia for season 1. I know that I feel some of that, even if I don't want to admit it. So I'm keeping my mind open to what the writers give us, because I know they're working very hard to please us and still give a good story.

I think you nailed it on the head here. I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Thanks. This season is showing the same story lines over and over...slowly. Last season every new ep lead to another thread. Here, this year...same threads for 3 shows (save Skylars great 10 min last week)