Nathan's Alter Ego, Dead Sibling Syndrome Redux?

so, we all saw (hopefully lol) that nathan looked at himself in the mirror and screamed for his reflection to leave him alone... now, sure his reflection is entirely different than the niki/jessica thing, but you can't help but see the similarity...

so, the question is, is nathan seeing peter inside himself somehow? like, nathan thinks that peter is dead, iirc, so is it possible that nathan somehow created an alter ego in the shape/form of peter? you think it's possible?

now, there's a topic about this in the speculation forum that is about this topic, so let me go get it real quick... meanwhile, what do you think of this?

hate to say it but, I think that nathan is the one killing off the founders... whether it's because of his alter ego, or something else, I dunno... but nathan as the killer seems plausible...

found the topic I was looking for lol... it's really a good theory and makes alot of sense:

http://boards.9thwonders.com/index.php?showtopic=60057

Allow me to look at this at a Psychological point of view: ((future Psychology major or minor here, people)).

Ok...

Child: When a child is to endure an extreme mental/emotional stress, they often create "imaginary friends" who, in fact, tend to be themselves. Basically, a version of themself, but stronger, and braver. They don't realize this, but it sometimes is the case.

Teenager: When a teenager endures extreme mental/emotion stress, they often go through a major depressive psychological state, in which their mind is subject to Schizophrenia, Manic Depressive Disorder, and, yes, even Multiple Personality Disorder. It's a disorder to us, not the case for them. It's their way of dealing.

Adult: When an adult endures the extreme mental/emotional stress, it is like that of a teenager, only a bit more mature.

To tell the truth, I don't know if it has anything to do with Jessica. I'm not even sure if it's another personality.

It does, however, have something to do with the way Nathan is coping. He COULD, very well indeed, be creating an alter ego or "other personality" to deal, but not nessacarily the kind we are thinking.

I honestly believe it is a matter of his sub-conscience breaking through to his conscience, and the like.

I agree with this for the most part. But, me and my daughters also got to thinkin... what if, seeing he and Peter are brothers, what if Nathan can also absorb others powers? It just might be starting out slower than Peter...Just a thought to throw out there...

Is it just me or was the scarring/two facing getting wider, covering more this time?

Ya the face looked much more errr lol..or maybe it was just seeing it more up close that makes us think that..now someone get screen caps of both so we may compare.

yeah, we'd really need good screencaps of both to determine that... I'm pretty sure we just didn't get a good enough look at it the first time in the bar...

It helps to keep in mind that this was our first full view of Nathan's scarred reflection. The first time it was just a profile view of his face, so really what we just saw tonight was the full extent of the injuries that we hadn't been allowed to see before, not necessarily that his scars were spreading.

how come nathan didnt suffer any injuries from that radiation? hmmm.. and his face sure looks pretty burned up. i think it's just some mental state of mind that he's gng thru after a traumatic incident, wouldnt you guys agree

i mean... it's kinda weird but i dont think that it has anything to do with niki/jessica's power. unless when peter "exploded", he transmitted some of his powers t nathan and that's where it picked up? hmm..

I think he's seeing the burned reflection of himself out of guilt. The writers are fond of visual cues like that in Heroes.

I'm guessing that he wasn't injured because he flew Peter high enough into the thermosphere before flinging him, prior to his exploding. I think he feels guilt because he let go of his brother, instead of holding onto him as he exploded.

But given the twists the writers like to take, it's plausible that Nathan's taking the members of the group out, one by one. He has the best incentive, they were the ones who set into motion the plans for New York to explode, and Nathan to step into presidency, and inevitably Peter's "death".

I still believe it is the Nightmare Man, though, a member of the group doing the killing. The storyline is leaning closer to that right now, in my opinion.

I'll put this theory in my "maybe pile".

I actually thought Nathan may have gained some of Peter's powers for a moment when he punched the glass, I actuall found myself thinking 'will he regenerate?', but he didn't so I have my doubts over him absorbing the powers. I'm going to guess that it's a visual representation of his guilt over Peter's 'death'.

Qwijibo

Occam's Razor agrees

Is it possible that the scars are the real him - effects of the radiation after carrying Peter into the atmosphere? Prehaps Mamma Pertrelli's power is similar to the Illusion girl - everyone is seeing a projection? He keeps seeing his true self, so he grew the beard, partly as his drunnken depression, partly to him the horror of the scars.

Something to think about.

Even though people knock this idea around like Yankee pitching, I actually agree with you. I think Nathan either looks like that monster or it was the after effects and he was "healed" but for a price. Which is now part of his guilt.

Why would he feel guilty for peter exploding? He knew he'd regenerate, he knew he was doing the right thing. That guilt doesn't make since. Now peter wearing the Haitian necklace ending up in a storage crate to some bad guys, maybe there's some guilt in that.

um probably because he told peter he would be with him to the end and he wouldnt let him go.

I'll partially agree with this statement. Nathan alone cannot be responsible for both the attacks, as he was clearly not the one who attacked his Mother. But it is possible that he killed Kaito. He seemed very sure that Angela was confessing to a crime she didn't commit...and why was he so sure she didn't do it? Because he did! So I think it is atleast possible that Nathan is being manipulated by someone to take part in the killings. It would be in line with Nathan's character to help the killer in exchange for something. Something important like maybe having his health and clear skin, or even the possibility of finding his brother?

Though if it is true that Nathan killed Kaito, then Matt is just as dumb as Mohinder. In fact, there are way too many similarities to last years Sylar/Mohinders pairing..and I hope the writers can be more creative than to repeat the same situations with different characters. Ooooooohhh, someone's killing people...so I'll team up with this guy that I don't know is the killer and try to go save everyone when in fact I'm leading the killer right too them!

I'm not sure which version of Heroes you're watching. Nathan has descend into alcholism and grief over the "death" of his brother. The very first scene between Nathan and his mother in this season was spent discussing and arguing over the loss of Peter, Angela even goes so far to say that Peter is dead and that they needed to move on. She tells him that he killed his brother and drove his wife and kids away, and if he had followed the plan, Peter would be alive. Neither of them have any idea that Peter survived the explosion - hence, Nathan's guilt. His mother orchestrated the events that brought Peter into contact with Ted, which gave him the radioactivity, which led to the almost-destruction of New York City, which would have led to Nathan's presidency. So, of course Nathan feels responsible.

Or did you think he was bumbling about in his grief because he had nothing more productive to do?

well, when I made this topic, I hadn't really thought completely about it, but now that i've had more time to think about it, here's what I've got...

from what we've seen of molly with the nightmare man and how he has her in that coma thing, practically controlling her mind, I'm thinking that the Nightmare man is able to "possess" people, but not like how we think of possessing...

just like, maybe the NM controls your mind and makes you do things... so, maybe the NM is taking nathan's body and using it to kill the founders... as for angela's attack, we could just say that the NM manipulated her into attacking herself... they did in fact say that her wounds were self inflicted, so it's not that much of a stress...

also, i'm thinking that either peter or nathan have an alter ego that we dunno about, and is working with the NM to kill the founders... my bet is on nathan, but peter is possible, at least maybe in the "Four Months Ago" episode... but this is a stretch as of right now to believe, so it's just a theory...

No maybe his grief is from something that happened after Kirby plaza.
Peter is in Ireland and someone shipped him there. Let's say Angela set this up and Nathan knows about it. Maybe she gave him a choice, heal your wounds (monster face) and work with me to finish what your father started. Or watch me still go through with my plan and send peter to ireland on a death mission.
This is why Nathan says he'll want these pictures when he comes back. But the mother knows it's no chance in hell (since she has no faith in Peter) that Peter will make it through this mission.
He's drinking because he made a deal with the devil, wanted to get his family far away from all the events and his mother. Turned to alcohol because Peter doesn't deserve this and he's always been no more than a pawn!
Breakdown
Nathan knows Peter is not dead (Has anyone mention that he died in the explosion?)
Haitian works for Angela
Peter is found in a crate 4 months later with the haitian necklace and a mind wipe?? Peter wasn't in that crate for the last 4 months people. Let's give it a day or 2 tops. 4 months in a crate would equal a smelly disgusting fecal ridden crate.
Angela is more evil than anyone could ever think of, and Nathan knows this.
I'd drink my life away too if I thought I was doing good and changed my ways by saving NY and sacrificing myself. To only find out that I am still no more than a pawn and my brother who wouldn't hurt a fly is now sent to do the impossible with no memory!
Get my family away from this madness! Plus have you seen my Monster Face? That's enough to down a gallon of rum to erase the memories of that face

I was actually thinking about that, but I just don't see it.

But I did come up with a really hilarious way of how he gets the powers...



The first pic we saw was at an angle, this new one was head on.

Personally I think its his guilt that is getting to him. He said that he wouldnt leave peter, he even promised he wouldnt. In this very episode he tells he kids that peterills never break a promise. what he is seeing is what would of happened if he did keep his promise and it haunts him so.

I believe it is the Nightmare Man. I believe that Nathan has been his unwitting tool, though probably only when drunk enough not to remember.

It's just interesting that the person that shoved Kaito was in a hooded sweatshirt, looked thin, and moved pretty fast. Faster and skinnier than I would have suspected of Matt's father who looked a bit on the heavy side in the picture. Not saying that part of his powers isn't weight loss/gain, just saying. And how did he survive the fall?

Let's list the possibilities, someone who can...
1. Fly
2. Teleport
3. Regenerate
4. Superhuman defence (just a guess)

Out of all the possibilities, I think the guy who pushed Kaito off must be someone who flies. No one else fits the picture but the Nathan. However, I think someone else is behind all this, like a mastermind - possibly Matt's dad A.K.A Nightmare Man.

yes, that's my theory as well... nathan is just the pawn in kaito's death and was manipulated by the NM to kill him... I think that angela, after she was attacked, found out that nathan was the killer and decided to turn herself in so that he wouldn't pay the price...

I agree. Angela knows now what her son is capable of. That is why she turned herself in, she doesn't want to meet the same end as Taiko. Nathan himself doesn't know what he's capable of, and doesn't actually know what he's doing...yet.

Must huh? That's a pretty ridiculous stance to take. A teleporter could have easily done it as well. Someone who does some weird sort of astral projection could have too. An "indestructible" person who wouldn't even get hurt from the fall could have done it too (since they could have moved away the moment they hit the ground). There is no way you can say the guy *must* be someone who flies. On top of that, the hooded person's build is too far away from Nathan's for it to be him...

Heh... I'll prolly get killed for mentioning West, but...

Idk. LoL.

Ima shut up now.

Yes, you're right.

I think I'm probably searching for abit more symbolism that isn't really there.

NOW I see what you mean.

You never know, there could be.

I am of the opinion that the most logical explanation of the "Monster Face" is something psychological that is happening within Nathan. There are many plausible causes for this, from guilt over what he nearly did, to despair over the "loss" of his brother. It could even be a combination of several of them.

As I said, that is the most logical explanation of Nathan's "Monster Face". There is something, however, that I can't quite get out of my head, however, and this being HEROES, who knows, but.. and maybe I am the only one that sees this, but.. does Nathan's "Monster Face" maybe look a little bit like some of Isaac's pictures of Uluru?

OK, probably not, but like I said, I can't get it out of my head.