I do not believe that matts dad is the nightmare man, I think they people behind Heroes want us to believe that but there are HUGE hints that it is not true.
1st>Durring the Episode opener it shows a very particular scene from HOW TO STOP AN EXPLODING MAN, Molly tells matt who wants her to find Sylar that there is someone worse scarrier then goes on to say something like I cant (not wont) find the Boogyman, when I look for him he sees me. Why show that clip during this episode, it is not just a clip to explain her power it is a clue.
2nd>If you watch the scene closely where Matt asks Molly to find his dad, she looks at the picture and says its the nightmare man, she never he's or your dad is the nightmare man. The scene heavily implies that Matts Dad is the big scary worse then slyar nightmare man. It is classic misdirection.
As for Nathon seeing himself burned I have a theory which I don't like. It is a theory that explains what nathan sees. That Nathan is dead and that it is really peter who is unconciouslly using Candices Power and the burned face is his subsconcious guilt over his brothers death. That peter couldnt deal with his brothers death which was his fault, and has a mental breakdown. I had no explanation of Peter showing up in Ireland until i read a theory about Peter using Niki astral project power ( which some dispute she has I know) That could explain why the alternate peter was locked up and why the tattoe disappeared, because he isnt real. I personally hope that this isnt the case it is really complicated and frankly kind of a stretch.
Please Everyones thoughts.
Wes Harris
Full Version: Matts Dad NOT Nightmare Man
I guess so. Almost everything in Heroes is more than meets the eye, they aren't always what they seem. I guess we have to read (or rather watch) in between the lines from now on.
Matt's father IS the Nightmare Man, now I will tell you why.
You used the scene in How to Stop an Exploding Man, interesting you seemed to not pay much attention. Sylar was revealed to be the Boogeyman before and in the episode she tracked him down to Isaac's loft, just before finding him she talked about another man worse than the Boogeyman who is of course the Nightmare Man.
In the 4th episode Matt pointed to his father when she freaked out and furthermore she was tracking Matt's father when she was attacked by the Nightmare Man and went into a coma-like state.
Simply put..
Sylar = The Boogeyman
Matt's Father = The Nightmare Man
As for your theory on Nathan, that is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have heard here and that is saying a lot.
Also why did you make two threads here for this ridiculous subject?
You used the scene in How to Stop an Exploding Man, interesting you seemed to not pay much attention. Sylar was revealed to be the Boogeyman before and in the episode she tracked him down to Isaac's loft, just before finding him she talked about another man worse than the Boogeyman who is of course the Nightmare Man.
In the 4th episode Matt pointed to his father when she freaked out and furthermore she was tracking Matt's father when she was attacked by the Nightmare Man and went into a coma-like state.
Simply put..
Sylar = The Boogeyman
Matt's Father = The Nightmare Man
As for your theory on Nathan, that is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have heard here and that is saying a lot.
Also why did you make two threads here for this ridiculous subject?
****DELETED****
I kinda agree about the Molly statement, but maybe she did mean she wont cause she said if she thinks about him he can see her, so maybe she means when she thinks about him to try to find him she cant cause he looks at her and scares her. Then agian in your favor she did find excattly where he was this time and if he is the NM then that was to ez and not as unable as she previously stated.
As far as the Nathan Thing goes it is good to have your own opinions and no one should say your wrong for them, i think maybe it could be a possibility. The only thing about his tattoo is a argument agianst you that his ability to heal would effect the tattoo cause when you get a tattoo it is engraded into your skin it is like a cut or a scare, for example when people get tattoos there arm does Bleed. No for your statement it is weird that the Tattoo didnt just go away it first changed into the Helix symbol then went away. But the Regeneration would cause the tattoo to disappear. But i like your thinking.
As far as the Nathan Thing goes it is good to have your own opinions and no one should say your wrong for them, i think maybe it could be a possibility. The only thing about his tattoo is a argument agianst you that his ability to heal would effect the tattoo cause when you get a tattoo it is engraded into your skin it is like a cut or a scare, for example when people get tattoos there arm does Bleed. No for your statement it is weird that the Tattoo didnt just go away it first changed into the Helix symbol then went away. But the Regeneration would cause the tattoo to disappear. But i like your thinking.
Where to begin, first you did post two topics on this..here is the other:
http://boards.9thwonders.com/index.php?showtopic=60243
How can you act like you didn't and then act like I am a moron for saying so OMG. Accident or not you posted two threads period.
Now onto Matt's father being the Nightmare Man. I reviewed both How to Stop an Exploding Man and the last episode.
In the last episode Matt whips out the picture of the founders and points right at his dad so Molly knows who is his dad, Molly then freaks out and tells him to not make her find him then they say why and she says he is the Nightmare Man. I could stop there as my proof but I will go on. After that event when Molly decides to help Matt they are with her saying they will be there protecting her...if Matt's father was not the Nightmare Man why would she be scared hmmm and furthermore when she does find him why does she see those symbols she always see's when having nightmares about the Nightmare Man and even furthermore why when she was looking for Matt's dad did she say he knew she was looking..something the Nightmare Man always knows..and the kicker is when she doesn't get out fast enough he attacks her and she freaks out like all those other times and boom she is in a coma or something.
And finally while she did say she can't find him in How to Stop an Exploding Man she may of simply referred to the fact she didn't want to go deep enough to find him therefore couldn't find him as a result of her fear. Or perhaps he constantly made her fear him so she never be able to find him as she never want to. Either way the evidence I just said above proves he is the Nightmare Man. The reason a ton of people aren't replying in this thread is because they know he is the Nightmare Man because the show clearly showed him to be such. It wasn't classic misdirection as you put it.
As for your Nathan theory, I am not even gonna try to talk about that again since you called me a moron for pointing out you were wrong about Matt's father..which was so obvious its sad.
http://boards.9thwonders.com/index.php?showtopic=60243
How can you act like you didn't and then act like I am a moron for saying so OMG. Accident or not you posted two threads period.
Now onto Matt's father being the Nightmare Man. I reviewed both How to Stop an Exploding Man and the last episode.
In the last episode Matt whips out the picture of the founders and points right at his dad so Molly knows who is his dad, Molly then freaks out and tells him to not make her find him then they say why and she says he is the Nightmare Man. I could stop there as my proof but I will go on. After that event when Molly decides to help Matt they are with her saying they will be there protecting her...if Matt's father was not the Nightmare Man why would she be scared hmmm and furthermore when she does find him why does she see those symbols she always see's when having nightmares about the Nightmare Man and even furthermore why when she was looking for Matt's dad did she say he knew she was looking..something the Nightmare Man always knows..and the kicker is when she doesn't get out fast enough he attacks her and she freaks out like all those other times and boom she is in a coma or something.
And finally while she did say she can't find him in How to Stop an Exploding Man she may of simply referred to the fact she didn't want to go deep enough to find him therefore couldn't find him as a result of her fear. Or perhaps he constantly made her fear him so she never be able to find him as she never want to. Either way the evidence I just said above proves he is the Nightmare Man. The reason a ton of people aren't replying in this thread is because they know he is the Nightmare Man because the show clearly showed him to be such. It wasn't classic misdirection as you put it.
As for your Nathan theory, I am not even gonna try to talk about that again since you called me a moron for pointing out you were wrong about Matt's father..which was so obvious its sad.
Sorry, Stryker, 314 is right. How many people can see Molly when she looks for them? Right before she got KO'd she said he'd noticed her.
I take it back actually. He's right about your post being kinda dumb, but not about it being the worst ever. Oh my God, I've seen some stupid scheisse in these forums.
Also. Nathan is alive and well. He is not being mimicked by Peter (who is, by the way, in Ireland) or Candace (who is dead). The precise origin of the Medium Rare Nathan imagery is not known.
And yes, I feel confident that Claire's ability was the reason Peter's tattoo went away. The helix symbol? Who knows.
I take it back actually. He's right about your post being kinda dumb, but not about it being the worst ever. Oh my God, I've seen some stupid scheisse in these forums.
Also. Nathan is alive and well. He is not being mimicked by Peter (who is, by the way, in Ireland) or Candace (who is dead). The precise origin of the Medium Rare Nathan imagery is not known.
And yes, I feel confident that Claire's ability was the reason Peter's tattoo went away. The helix symbol? Who knows.
LoL i Like your response ther 314 hahaha, A breif edit to my above topic ill just post it hear when i was talking about the tattoo healing i was talking about Peter I typed it and it looks like i was talking about Nathan.
Anyways 314 i agree with your statements 100% i just dont know anymore lol, the next episode there could be fluffy bunnies as the NM who knows anymore which is why i love this show so much.
Enjoy reading your post as always.
Anyways 314 i agree with your statements 100% i just dont know anymore lol, the next episode there could be fluffy bunnies as the NM who knows anymore which is why i love this show so much.
Enjoy reading your post as always.
QUOTE (Hironator @ Oct 16 2007, 11:05 PM) 
I kinda agree about the Molly statement, but maybe she did mean she wont cause she said if she thinks about him he can see her, so maybe she means when she thinks about him to try to find him she cant cause he looks at her and scares her. Then agian in your favor she did find excattly where he was this time and if he is the NM then that was to ez and not as unable as she previously stated.
As far as the Nathan Thing goes it is good to have your own opinions and no one should say your wrong for them, i think maybe it could be a possibility. The only thing about his tattoo is a argument agianst you that his ability to heal would effect the tattoo cause when you get a tattoo it is engraded into your skin it is like a cut or a scare, for example when people get tattoos there arm does Bleed. No for your statement it is weird that the Tattoo didnt just go away it first changed into the Helix symbol then went away. But the Regeneration would cause the tattoo to disappear. But i like your thinking.
As far as the Nathan Thing goes it is good to have your own opinions and no one should say your wrong for them, i think maybe it could be a possibility. The only thing about his tattoo is a argument agianst you that his ability to heal would effect the tattoo cause when you get a tattoo it is engraded into your skin it is like a cut or a scare, for example when people get tattoos there arm does Bleed. No for your statement it is weird that the Tattoo didnt just go away it first changed into the Helix symbol then went away. But the Regeneration would cause the tattoo to disappear. But i like your thinking.
Hey,
I am not a huge fan of my Nathan theory I hope to god it is Wrong cause it would be stupid.
I hope Matts dad isnt the Nightmare man, if he is and he is suppose to be 100 times worse then sylar I am not impressed. Another thing to remeber this is episode 4 and who is the super evil villain molly mentioned in TO STOP AN EXPLODING MAN is probably the B or C story this Season ( B and C stories basically are stories that have multi-episode or even season arcs, for example in season 1 the B arc was stopping the explosion, the "C" story would be saving the cheerleader) I think it is to big of a reveal this early to be Truely the indentity of the NIGHTMARE MAN, hell Sylar indentity wasnt reveled until Episode 8 last season though big what he looked like wasnt a Major story arc.
Stryker
QUOTE (Stryker187 @ Oct 17 2007, 03:22 AM)
I hope Matts dad isnt the Nightmare man, if he is and he is suppose to be 100 times worse then sylar I am not impressed. Another thing to remeber this is episode 4 and who is the super evil villain molly mentioned in TO STOP AN EXPLODING MAN is probably the B or C story this Season ( B and C stories basically are stories that have multi-episode or even season arcs, for example in season 1 the B arc was stopping the explosion, the "C" story would be saving the cheerleader) I think it is to big of a reveal this early to be Truely the indentity of the NIGHTMARE MAN, hell Sylar indentity wasnt reveled until Episode 8 last season though big what he looked like wasnt a Major story arc.
So you still don't think Matt's dad is the Nightmare Man after ALL the proof I offered?
Do I have to be even more detailed and post actual dialogue OMG!
U Never Know 314 nothing is proven until it is said..... 
LOL
LOL
QUOTE (Hironator @ Oct 17 2007, 03:34 AM)
U Never Know 314 nothing is proven until it is said... LOL
LOLHey some people need proof as literal as possible and from Matt pointing and what was said after and before its clear she was talking about Matt's dad...so man if this guy needs dialogue I may just provide it to let him grow as a person.
Sorry if i am repeating what anyone else said i just dont feel like reading more since the first was so off.
Wow no offense you are way off Stryker. Molly never says she can't find the nightmare man, if she uses the word can't she ment it as won't. Molly states in the first episode of the season that she doesn't want to find him cause she thinks that he will kill Matt if he tries to confront him. Nathan is not Peter. That is by far one of the dumbest theoies i have ever herd. First of all when did Peter meet Candice. He didn't. Second of all what is you explaination for Peter's healing power not being responsable for his tattoo disappearing. Seems to me like the fact that his body can heal and since a tattoo is a scar it makes sense that it made it disappear. Thrid of all Niki's whole Jessica thing hasn't been explained so i wouldn't atribute it to a power Niki has, let alone one that Peter got from Niki. As for Matts dad not being the Nightmare man i am not going to tottally agree with you but this is my thoughts on it, if the nightmare man is powerful enough to see Molly whenever she thinks of him and in her dreams, he probably could make himself look like whatever he wants. It seems like this might be a trap to lead Matt somewhere.
Wow no offense you are way off Stryker. Molly never says she can't find the nightmare man, if she uses the word can't she ment it as won't. Molly states in the first episode of the season that she doesn't want to find him cause she thinks that he will kill Matt if he tries to confront him. Nathan is not Peter. That is by far one of the dumbest theoies i have ever herd. First of all when did Peter meet Candice. He didn't. Second of all what is you explaination for Peter's healing power not being responsable for his tattoo disappearing. Seems to me like the fact that his body can heal and since a tattoo is a scar it makes sense that it made it disappear. Thrid of all Niki's whole Jessica thing hasn't been explained so i wouldn't atribute it to a power Niki has, let alone one that Peter got from Niki. As for Matts dad not being the Nightmare man i am not going to tottally agree with you but this is my thoughts on it, if the nightmare man is powerful enough to see Molly whenever she thinks of him and in her dreams, he probably could make himself look like whatever he wants. It seems like this might be a trap to lead Matt somewhere.
QUOTE (314 @ Oct 17 2007, 03:42 AM)
Hey some people need proof as literal as possible and from Matt pointing and what was said after and before its clear she was talking about Matt's dad...so man if this guy needs dialogue I may just provide it to let him grow as a person.
Here i can help: Quick Summary
Matt: "This is my Dad" (Points directly on top of the picture)
Molly: AHHH! Nightmare Man
Matt: Oh Find him! My Bad
Suresh: Dont feel Bad u didnt Know! ( implying that he didnt know his dad was the NM)
QUOTE (Flymon @ Oct 17 2007, 03:45 AM)
if the nightmare man is powerful enough to see Molly whenever she thinks of him and in her dreams, he probably could make himself look like whatever he wants. It seems like this might be a trap to lead Matt somewhere.
While I agree the NM can make people see things at the same time Molly was looking for Matt's dad so why would she zero in on the NM by mistake.
QUOTE
Where to begin, first you did post two topics on this..here is the other:
http://boards.9thwonders.com/index.php?showtopic=60243
http://boards.9thwonders.com/index.php?showtopic=60243
If you READ my post I clearly say that the first post was an accidental half post.
QUOTE
How can you act like you didn't and then act like I am a moron for saying so OMG. Accident or not you posted two threads period.
Refer to above,QUOTE
Now onto Matt's father being the Nightmare Man. I reviewed both How to Stop an Exploding Man and the last episode. In the last episode Matt whips out the picture of the founders and points right at his dad, Molly then freaks out and tells him to not make her find him then they say why and she says he is the Nightmare Man. I could stop there as my proof but I will go on.
I never said that the show writers were not suggesting that Matts Dad is the Nightmare Man, I just don't see that man being the Ultra Evil Villian Far worse then Sylar, especially being revealed this early. Slyar's Indentity wasnt revealed until episode 8 of season one and there was less happening in the first season.
QUOTE
If Matt's father was not the Nightmare Man why would she be scared hmmm
She was scared of the photo, she didnt at the time of her screaming know which of the men was Matts father, he hadn't pointed to him before she screamed nor said this is my dad can you find him followed by Molly screaming. That is not how it happenned.QUOTE
and furthermore when she does find him why does she see those symbols she always see's when having nightmares about the Nightmare Man
The Symbol is associated with super human powers not just Mollys dreams, and to be honest the Symbol seems far more associated with Kensi, Hiro and his father.
QUOTE
and even furthermore why when she was looking for Matt's dad did she say he knew she was looking..something the Nightmare Man always knows..
Yes the Nightmare man was trying to find her, he wouldnt have to find her if she was looking for him, as he would already see her as per her previous statements.QUOTE
and the kicker is when she doesn't get out fast enough he attacks her and she freaks out like all those other times and boom she is in a coma or something.
I am not saying that the Nightmare man didnt put her in the coma or whatever, nor am I saying the Nightmare Man is not in the Photo he clearly is, but according to Molly she cant find the Nightmare man, and if she meant it was dangorous she also said that he can see back, so once she started looking for him he would know and attack her he would not have had to take several minutes to find her finding him.
QUOTE
Or perhaps he constantly made her fear him so she never be able to find him as she never want to. Either way the evidence I just said above proves he is the Nightmare Man. The reason a ton of people aren't replying in this thread is because they know he is the Nightmare Man because the show clearly showed him to be such. It wasn't classic misdirection as you put it.
As quoted in a earlier reply it in my mind is to early to give something that big away, it would be like last season them stoping the bomb durring episode 4, or saving the cheerleader, in episode 4. Main Story arcs do not resolve so quickly. I mean time will proove this right without a doubt. If I were writing the series I wouldnt give away One of the two or three major story arcs so early, unless I had something bigger to replace it. Maybe the Nightmare man can assume indentities like a shape shifter.QUOTE
As for your Nathan theory, I am not even gonna try to talk about that again since you called me a moron for pointing out you were wrong about Matt's father..which was so obvious its sad.
****DELETED****
Stryker
QUOTE (314 @ Oct 16 2007, 11:57 PM)
While I agree the NM can make people see things at the same time Molly was looking for Matt's dad so why would she zero in on the NM by mistake.
That is easy, she didnt zero in on Nightmare man by mistake she was looking for Matts Dad but Nightmare man zero'd in on her. It may be that Nightmare man can zero in on people using abilites,
Stryker
QUOTE (Hironator @ Oct 16 2007, 11:46 PM)
Here i can help: Quick Summary
Matt: "This is my Dad" (Points directly on top of the picture)
Molly: AHHH! Nightmare Man
Matt: Oh Find him! My Bad
Suresh: Dont feel Bad u didnt Know! ( implying that he didnt know his dad was the NM)
Matt: "This is my Dad" (Points directly on top of the picture)
Molly: AHHH! Nightmare Man
Matt: Oh Find him! My Bad
Suresh: Dont feel Bad u didnt Know! ( implying that he didnt know his dad was the NM)
Rewatch that part if you have it Tivo'd I do, he goes to show her the picture with his thumb on the picture of his dad she looks at the photo and screams. Sugguesting that Matts dad is the Nightmare Man, but if you consider the clip played of TO STOP AN EXPLODING MAN considered with the fact that there are many people in the photo and her eyeline doesnt match Matt's Thumb. There is every indiction she doesnt need photos to find people ( this is the first time a photo was used) why this time, if the Company had her as a tracking system they wouldnt have had photos of all the super people if they did the company wouldnt have needed her tracking. they could go where the photos were taken. In all likey hood she just needs the name of the person, hence the company trying to get Suresh's massive list of all Super Human People when working with. Yes, that did happen about episode 15 or 16 last season, HRG trying to get him and Mohinder to work together to find 'GOOD' people on the list. Did you just start watching Heroes this season 314
As for what you said about Nightmare Man zero'ing on her. He have to be pretty lucky to zero in on her at the very moment she was looking for Matt's dad..either way I have given too much proof that Matt's dad is the Nightmare Man.
****DELETED****
At what point did I ever say she needed a photo to find people?
Besides last I checked to recognize Matt's dad as the Nightmare Man or anyone who is suppose to be Nightmare Man in that photo she have to see them previous and since she can't find the NM according to you then that make it impossible to recognize the Nightmare Man unless she was shown a picture of him previously.
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QUOTE (Stryker187 @ Oct 17 2007, 04:16 AM)
There is every indiction she doesnt need photos to find people ( this is the first time a photo was used) why this time, if the Company had her as a tracking system they wouldnt have had photos of all the super people if they didnt they wouldnt have needed her tracking. Did you just start watching Heroes this season 314
At what point did I ever say she needed a photo to find people?
Besides last I checked to recognize Matt's dad as the Nightmare Man or anyone who is suppose to be Nightmare Man in that photo she have to see them previous and since she can't find the NM according to you then that make it impossible to recognize the Nightmare Man unless she was shown a picture of him previously.
QUOTE (Stryker187 @ Oct 17 2007, 04:28 AM)
Time will tell who is right about Matts father whether he isnt Nightmare Man or a Shapeshifter or something simular which I also suggested. Without a doubt it will be proven that Matts Dad is not NM, probably next week. Remember I dont deny any one of your points unfortunatly your thick skull can not comprehend this subtle nature of some of the hints the writers are putting in the story. I fully admit it looks like Matt's Dad is the Nightmare Man but that is to simple. If I am wrong I will admit it, will you?
OMG I love it. First you say in no way was Matt's dad the Nightmare Man then after getting PWNED a bit with facts you say "Oh I always agreed with your points all along".
Now lets review what you said showing you did not believe it was Matt's dad she was getting freaked out at.
QUOTE
2nd>If you watch the scene closely where Matt asks Molly to find his dad, she looks at the picture and says its the nightmare man, she never he's or your dad is the nightmare man. The scene heavily implies that Matts Dad is the big scary worse then slyar nightmare man. It is classic misdirection.
..
Found Matt's dad so It can not be him)
..
She was scared of the photo, she didnt at the time of her screaming know which of the men was Matts father, he hadn't pointed to him before she screamed nor said this is my dad can you find him followed by Molly screaming. That is not how it happenned.
..
he goes to show her the picture with his thumb on the picture of his dad she looks at the photo and screams. Sugguesting that Matts dad is the Nightmare Man, but if you consider the clip played of TO STOP AN EXPLODING MAN considered with the fact that there are many people in the photo and her eyeline doesnt match Matt's Thumb.
..
Found Matt's dad so It can not be him)
..
She was scared of the photo, she didnt at the time of her screaming know which of the men was Matts father, he hadn't pointed to him before she screamed nor said this is my dad can you find him followed by Molly screaming. That is not how it happenned.
..
he goes to show her the picture with his thumb on the picture of his dad she looks at the photo and screams. Sugguesting that Matts dad is the Nightmare Man, but if you consider the clip played of TO STOP AN EXPLODING MAN considered with the fact that there are many people in the photo and her eyeline doesnt match Matt's Thumb.
Also when he showed her the photo he layed it on the desk and pointed at his father, his thumb was not over his face lol. And she did start screaming after he pointed his dad out.
As for the whole thing with the clip of How to Stop an Exploding Man, it was shown as it was relevant to the episode as the Nightmare Man was revealed in it.
In the end if Matt's dad is not the Nightmare Man then hey that is possible, I am right now going with what has so far been shown and what has been shown has shown the Nightmare Man to be Matt's dad. If something comes up to suggest this is not true then things will change of course just like anything supported by facts at the time it supported.
Also I watched Season 1 when it started as well beyond that over again..I didn't comment on that remark because I just wanted to get this issue over and not talk about me at the time.
Right now ALL the evidence points to Matt's dad being the Nightmare Man, if the next episode points to it all being a hoax of some sort then hey I will agree whole heartedly that Matt's dad isn't the Nightmare Man because facts show this. I base my opinions on what is known at the time of making them and right now the facts say Matt's father is the Nightmare Man which is why I didn't like being called a moron for stating such.
And when did you ever talk about a shapeshifter or anything similar lol.
Couple of things. (one mild spoiler ahead)
1. If someone were to ask me to go skydiving, and I was terrified of heights, and they somehow got me up in the plane, I would probably bottle out at the last minute saying "I can't do this." This doesn't mean that I am unable to, just unwilling. There's a situation in this topic that my analogy applies quite neatly to, I'm sure you can find it.
2. The writers are indeed fond of leading us a merry dance with some things, but when they point something out this blatantly the only explanation is that it's exactly as it appears. The fact that they're going to meet/fight the Nightmare Man in the next episode explains why the reveal came this early. Nightmare Man isn't the "main" arc this season, I don't think. While one of the major ones, I think the founder story is more important. Unless it's Nightmare Man who is killing the other founders, in which case it IS the main arc, but it's still not unheard of for them to reveal the Big Bad at this point. You don't have to wait 8 or 9 episodes to introduce a villain. In fact the longer you know of their existence and how dangerous they are, the longer you have to appreciate them as a villain.
1. If someone were to ask me to go skydiving, and I was terrified of heights, and they somehow got me up in the plane, I would probably bottle out at the last minute saying "I can't do this." This doesn't mean that I am unable to, just unwilling. There's a situation in this topic that my analogy applies quite neatly to, I'm sure you can find it.
2. The writers are indeed fond of leading us a merry dance with some things, but when they point something out this blatantly the only explanation is that it's exactly as it appears. The fact that they're going to meet/fight the Nightmare Man in the next episode explains why the reveal came this early. Nightmare Man isn't the "main" arc this season, I don't think. While one of the major ones, I think the founder story is more important. Unless it's Nightmare Man who is killing the other founders, in which case it IS the main arc, but it's still not unheard of for them to reveal the Big Bad at this point. You don't have to wait 8 or 9 episodes to introduce a villain. In fact the longer you know of their existence and how dangerous they are, the longer you have to appreciate them as a villain.
woah, tension btwn 314 and Stryker187.
actually i think what both of you said pretty much makes sense... please dont call each other names.
hmm, okay. we have alr clarified the problem of boogeyman and nightmare man.
boogeyman - sylar.
nightmare man - maury parkman. [matt's dad]
even though the writers would love t keep us in suspense and mislead us... in my opinion, matt's dad IS indeed the nightmare man and molly said that theres only a person worst than the boogeyman yes? which we assume is MATT'S DAD. whenever she thinks about him, he can see her.
so obviously, when shown the picture of matt's dad. she kinda freaked out cos it IS infact the nightmare man - which she will of course recognize..
as for the helix symbols that she has been drawing in btween his eyes... im sure there's a reason to it, maybe that is how she sees it. . the helix represents someone w powers - hell, it could be ANYONE!
keep that in view!
as for the nathan theory, i have t disagree w you Stryker187. Nathan is very much himself and Peter is in Ireland hahaha! what he is seeing is... [go see the speculations/theories page!]
there, my 2cents' worth.
actually i think what both of you said pretty much makes sense... please dont call each other names.
hmm, okay. we have alr clarified the problem of boogeyman and nightmare man.
boogeyman - sylar.
nightmare man - maury parkman. [matt's dad]
even though the writers would love t keep us in suspense and mislead us... in my opinion, matt's dad IS indeed the nightmare man and molly said that theres only a person worst than the boogeyman yes? which we assume is MATT'S DAD. whenever she thinks about him, he can see her.
so obviously, when shown the picture of matt's dad. she kinda freaked out cos it IS infact the nightmare man - which she will of course recognize..
as for the helix symbols that she has been drawing in btween his eyes... im sure there's a reason to it, maybe that is how she sees it. . the helix represents someone w powers - hell, it could be ANYONE!
keep that in view!
as for the nathan theory, i have t disagree w you Stryker187. Nathan is very much himself and Peter is in Ireland hahaha! what he is seeing is... [go see the speculations/theories page!]
there, my 2cents' worth.
honestly I think the NM is Matt's dad. However I don't agree with the way Stryker went in proving himself right. The whole point of "Speculation and Theory" is just that. Just randomly saying theories are stupid or absurd is in itself absurd. Styker made a theory and provided factual evidence which was given to us in comparison to his theory and then left for the reader to decide. Although this a theory I personally think is silly, but when talking about theories, opinions dont matter. We seem to forget this important fact, the fact that when thinking up theories, regardless of how silly they might be, we must keep very open minds and not read these thread with the first thought in our minds being, "I know i'm right!" We are supposed to read theories to get ideas, and have conversations about them, not argue. Question each other instead of just saying, "Hey moron, here is why i'm right!" Instead just simply place your facts, and compare them to either denouncing or proving theories. Most of which was all done, fairly well, however when you add name-calling and pointless ranting it takes the fun out of reading these threads. I dont post often because I rather enjoy reading what all of you have to say. But when I see a thread titled, "Matt's dad is not NM" or whatever I think to myself, "This could be interesting, lets see what this person has to say." And then I have to read some jerk telling someone their theories are ridiculous and then read another jerk calling the first jerk a moron, it just makes everything a little less enjoyable. So please, just learn to keep it nice so I dont have to skip posts. I really do care what other people have to say (unfortunatley there should be more people like that).
i didn't read the whole thread cause simply put i agree with 314.
there are things in the show left open for speculation ... this is not one of them.
there are things in the show left open for speculation ... this is not one of them.
Volume 2 is only supposed to last about 11 episodes. Four episodes into that 11 is not that early. This season is made up of more than one volume.
OK kids, let's play nice now 
. The name-calling serves no purpose in this debate, and since it's a public forum the rest of us shouldn't have to be subjected to it.
As for the questions at hand: I think Matt's dad is Molly's Nightmare Man. I just re-watched 'Exploding Man' on Sunday, and if I recall correctly, Molly says she can't look for him bc when she does he looks back at her.
And Nathan... maybe he just always wanted to play the Phantom of the Opera on Broadway and is auditioning for the role?
. The name-calling serves no purpose in this debate, and since it's a public forum the rest of us shouldn't have to be subjected to it.As for the questions at hand: I think Matt's dad is Molly's Nightmare Man. I just re-watched 'Exploding Man' on Sunday, and if I recall correctly, Molly says she can't look for him bc when she does he looks back at her.
And Nathan... maybe he just always wanted to play the Phantom of the Opera on Broadway and is auditioning for the role?
Well in my opinion, Maury Parkmann is just the nightmare man for molly because he doesn't want to be found.
The main reason why he defends himself against molly is because he obviously thinks that the killer is trying to find him that way? It could be a possibility.
As about the comments that he looks for molly? Those are definately wrong!
Molly can't help herself looking for him while she is sleeping due to the fact that she is afraid of him because to her is he too creepy when he sees her.
Mollys statement in the last episode of season one didn't said that she can't find him at all!
She said "I can't find him because when I do he can see me".
As it was obviously shown in the last episode, she is able to find him but when she goes too near, he is able to see that she is there and defend himself by making her afraid of him or even mentally blocking her so he can't be found.
So all in all, she can find him but she doesn't want to. As it seems the nightmares man power is not like mollys as well because he can see that she is looking for him only when she goes too close. When she said 3rd floor, he wasn't able to see her yet.
She said that he knew she was here after she was on the same floor he actually was and not earlier.
The main reason why he defends himself against molly is because he obviously thinks that the killer is trying to find him that way? It could be a possibility.
As about the comments that he looks for molly? Those are definately wrong!
Molly can't help herself looking for him while she is sleeping due to the fact that she is afraid of him because to her is he too creepy when he sees her.
Mollys statement in the last episode of season one didn't said that she can't find him at all!
She said "I can't find him because when I do he can see me".
As it was obviously shown in the last episode, she is able to find him but when she goes too near, he is able to see that she is there and defend himself by making her afraid of him or even mentally blocking her so he can't be found.
So all in all, she can find him but she doesn't want to. As it seems the nightmares man power is not like mollys as well because he can see that she is looking for him only when she goes too close. When she said 3rd floor, he wasn't able to see her yet.
She said that he knew she was here after she was on the same floor he actually was and not earlier.
I think Matts dad is the man Molly sees... It makes sense, Matt can read minds, and has only ever been stoped by the Haitian (sP?) Why is he getitng kicked out of Molly's head?
And Molly didnt want to go into the apartment His father was in... 1+1 = Matts dad
And Molly didnt want to go into the apartment His father was in... 1+1 = Matts dad
I shouldnt have called him (314)a moron i know, his first response was offenese not because he disagreed with my theory it was how he went about it. Like i said in my first response there is a better way to rebutt an agruement other then saying no that is stupid.
As for nathan my theory covers peter, and him being in Ireland and I said when i wrote it. "I hope this is not the way they go"
My first thought when I rewatched Heroes initally was whoa Matts dad is the Nightmare man, then I stopped considered this was to easy. It is like in Law and Order if you believe the first guy they arrest and try is guilty your not very intuitive.
FOR 314 here is my quote about ThE Nightmare Man assuming Identities or Shapeshifting from Page 1
I bring this is to show 314 that I made clear that it looked like Matts Dad was Nightmare Man, if I didnt acknowledge those clues i wouldnt have mentioned the writers trying to misdirect us, i would conclude everyone is blind.
Keep in mind this is a theory not a fact, this is what I believe will happen next week. Matt will get enraged over Molly being put in a Coma by Nightmare man he will rush to the building where his Dad is believing that he is Nightmare man, when he gets there his dad is hurt badly or dead. Deeping the Mystery of how to save Molly which may become a C arc. At which point 314 will proclaim They Killed Nightmareman off.
Facts are not set in stone but are more Perceptions the indentity of Nightmare man is a good example if what I said comes true and next week we see that Matts dad was not nightmare man then clearly it was not a fact.
The best agruement to rebut my theory (for those who cant come up with it themselves) is not to counter each of my hints as it were but to note that clearly the writers suggest and the audience at this point believes that Matts Dad is the Nightmare man; most events durring episode 4 point towards that conclusion and sometimes the best misdirection is no misdirection at all. You may be over analyzing what may turn out to be a minor story arc, his identity.
As for who really is Nightmare man then, which I have no proof of ofcourse. There is a artifically blured image on the photo of the 12 Members, this could be because he is not cast though Tim Kring says all the people in the Photo are cast as those charactors. Why is it blured to the point where the face is unclear. Also the person who pushed Hiros Dad off the roof was not Matts dad or atleast what we seen in the photo, everyone agrees with that from what I have read.
As for nathan my theory covers peter, and him being in Ireland and I said when i wrote it. "I hope this is not the way they go"
My first thought when I rewatched Heroes initally was whoa Matts dad is the Nightmare man, then I stopped considered this was to easy. It is like in Law and Order if you believe the first guy they arrest and try is guilty your not very intuitive.
FOR 314 here is my quote about ThE Nightmare Man assuming Identities or Shapeshifting from Page 1
QUOTE
As quoted in a earlier reply it in my mind is to early to give something that big away, it would be like last season them stoping the bomb durring episode 4, or saving the cheerleader, in episode 4. Main Story arcs do not resolve so quickly. I mean time will proove this right without a doubt. If I were writing the series I wouldnt give away One of the two or three major story arcs so early, unless I had something bigger to replace it. Maybe the Nightmare man can assume indentities like a shape shifter.
Quote from my first post QUOTE
I do not believe that matts dad is the nightmare man, I think they people behind Heroes want us to believe that but there are HUGE hints that it is not true.
I bring this is to show 314 that I made clear that it looked like Matts Dad was Nightmare Man, if I didnt acknowledge those clues i wouldnt have mentioned the writers trying to misdirect us, i would conclude everyone is blind.
Keep in mind this is a theory not a fact, this is what I believe will happen next week. Matt will get enraged over Molly being put in a Coma by Nightmare man he will rush to the building where his Dad is believing that he is Nightmare man, when he gets there his dad is hurt badly or dead. Deeping the Mystery of how to save Molly which may become a C arc. At which point 314 will proclaim They Killed Nightmareman off.
Facts are not set in stone but are more Perceptions the indentity of Nightmare man is a good example if what I said comes true and next week we see that Matts dad was not nightmare man then clearly it was not a fact.
The best agruement to rebut my theory (for those who cant come up with it themselves) is not to counter each of my hints as it were but to note that clearly the writers suggest and the audience at this point believes that Matts Dad is the Nightmare man; most events durring episode 4 point towards that conclusion and sometimes the best misdirection is no misdirection at all. You may be over analyzing what may turn out to be a minor story arc, his identity.
As for who really is Nightmare man then, which I have no proof of ofcourse. There is a artifically blured image on the photo of the 12 Members, this could be because he is not cast though Tim Kring says all the people in the Photo are cast as those charactors. Why is it blured to the point where the face is unclear. Also the person who pushed Hiros Dad off the roof was not Matts dad or atleast what we seen in the photo, everyone agrees with that from what I have read.
I am not going to theorize nor speculate, this is only my gut feeling. He is not the nightmare guy, this is misdirection... But everyone is entitled to their opinions, cause at the end of the day, unless you are actually a producer or writer on the show, anything and everything that it is said in these forums are just that, opinions.
I think is misdirection, and i think it is using the tv and hollywood formula. Must of the people in the picture (with the exceptions of the well known actors and characters in it) are fillers. I dont see the producers bringing yet 5 more new characters to be developed in an already full of characters series. I am willing to bet that Matt's dad will be already dead by next episode...hey, they even hinted us in the promo "nothing is as it seems". The people in the picture will be found dead or something in future episodes, with one or two exceptions that will be the ones explaining whats going on and about the original group. But again thats my opinion, and if anyone disagree, do it in an intelligent way (name calling only shows inmaturity and lack of argumentative skills) and i will be the first to admit i am wrong when and if i am after we watched new episodes...but i wish others do the same. That way this is fun and do not turn into a slugfest for bragging rights about been correct.
I think is misdirection, and i think it is using the tv and hollywood formula. Must of the people in the picture (with the exceptions of the well known actors and characters in it) are fillers. I dont see the producers bringing yet 5 more new characters to be developed in an already full of characters series. I am willing to bet that Matt's dad will be already dead by next episode...hey, they even hinted us in the promo "nothing is as it seems". The people in the picture will be found dead or something in future episodes, with one or two exceptions that will be the ones explaining whats going on and about the original group. But again thats my opinion, and if anyone disagree, do it in an intelligent way (name calling only shows inmaturity and lack of argumentative skills) and i will be the first to admit i am wrong when and if i am after we watched new episodes...but i wish others do the same. That way this is fun and do not turn into a slugfest for bragging rights about been correct.
I don't have enough information yet to know if the Nightmare Man is evil (the killer) or just protecting himself from the real killer. It would be nice writing in my opinion to have him be a good guy, currently just fearful that the company/hooded hoodlum has control of Molly and is looking for him to take him out.
I thought it was dumb that Matt made Molly get the room number. If I knew the city, and the building, that should be enough since I could read minds to figure the rest out. Then he got Molly to get the floor. Surely that is enough, no need to get the actual room number. Oh well.
I thought it was dumb that Matt made Molly get the room number. If I knew the city, and the building, that should be enough since I could read minds to figure the rest out. Then he got Molly to get the floor. Surely that is enough, no need to get the actual room number. Oh well.
You know, one of the things I've liked about these boards is that we have generally been able to disagree (and I do disagree with people on a number of points about the show) without resorting to name calling and getting nasty.
Stryker, I completely disagree with your theories, but yeesh - 314, you really need to learn how to post and disagree with someone without sounding completely condescending and throwing around words like "this is the way it is" and "this proves such and such." You've already said those kind of things in other posts about things that have simply not ended up being the case - I'd think you'd have learned your lesson by now.
Of course, it's not one sided, and I'm sad to see other people joining in with the name calling. I hope we can all raise our maturity levels back into the post-teenage eschalons so that everyone can continue to enjoy these forums.
I'm not the forum police, and I know I can't make anyone be civil, but it really, honestly, never hurts to be courteous, even if you're disagreeing with someone.
Stryker, I completely disagree with your theories, but yeesh - 314, you really need to learn how to post and disagree with someone without sounding completely condescending and throwing around words like "this is the way it is" and "this proves such and such." You've already said those kind of things in other posts about things that have simply not ended up being the case - I'd think you'd have learned your lesson by now.
Of course, it's not one sided, and I'm sad to see other people joining in with the name calling. I hope we can all raise our maturity levels back into the post-teenage eschalons so that everyone can continue to enjoy these forums.
I'm not the forum police, and I know I can't make anyone be civil, but it really, honestly, never hurts to be courteous, even if you're disagreeing with someone.
QUOTE (tornadoalley @ Oct 17 2007, 03:59 PM)
You know, one of the things I've liked about these boards is that we have generally been able to disagree (and I do disagree with people on a number of points about the show) without resorting to name calling and getting nasty.
Stryker, I completely disagree with your theories, but yeesh - 314, you really need to learn how to post and disagree with someone without sounding completely condescending and throwing around words like "this is the way it is" and "this proves such and such." You've already said those kind of things in other posts about things that have simply not ended up being the case - I'd think you'd have learned your lesson by now.
Of course, it's not one sided, and I'm sad to see other people joining in with the name calling. I hope we can all raise our maturity levels back into the post-teenage eschalons so that everyone can continue to enjoy these forums.
I'm not the forum police, and I know I can't make anyone be civil, but it really, honestly, never hurts to be courteous, even if you're disagreeing with someone.
Stryker, I completely disagree with your theories, but yeesh - 314, you really need to learn how to post and disagree with someone without sounding completely condescending and throwing around words like "this is the way it is" and "this proves such and such." You've already said those kind of things in other posts about things that have simply not ended up being the case - I'd think you'd have learned your lesson by now.
Of course, it's not one sided, and I'm sad to see other people joining in with the name calling. I hope we can all raise our maturity levels back into the post-teenage eschalons so that everyone can continue to enjoy these forums.
I'm not the forum police, and I know I can't make anyone be civil, but it really, honestly, never hurts to be courteous, even if you're disagreeing with someone.
Amen to that...
Sorry, but I have to agree with 314 and the others, I think its really very clear cut that Matt's dad is Molly's "Nightmare Man".
The Nathan theory is just way too far-fetched... there's no reason to think Niki has any sort of astral projection power, nor any reason for Peter to have Candice's power. Not to mention a guy with amnesia doing all this from Ireland subconsciously? Sorry, no way.
By the way, this whole thing should have been posted in the speculation thread... not episode discussion. I'm hoping a mod will move it there.
Anyway, I will point out a couple of things.
I've noticed you refer to the Nightmare Man as the guy who is supposed to be "uber evil" or "100 times worse than Sylar".
At no point was the Nightmare Man ever hinted to be a main villain, or even evil. The only things said about him were Molly's comments.
Think about the point of view here. A little girl, who has discovered a power that she can find people. What scares her? The Nightmare Man scared her at first, because she said when she looked for him, he could see her. Of course to her that's going to be incredibly scary... from her point of view, that makes him worse than Sylar. BTW this also means that she is able to look for the Nightmare Man, but he can see her when she tries. Don't take a little girl saying "can't" instead of "won't" as proof of anything... in a child's mind it is the same thing. Heck, a lot of adults I know seem unable to grasp the concept!
Later, the Nightmare Man is invading her dreams. My personal theory on this is that Nightmare Man, knowing she can find him, is doing whatever he can do discourage her from doing that. She's a threat to him, it doesn't even mean he is evil. We don't know what or who he may be hiding from, and he may have no idea who Molly is or why she was looking for him.
Why did she look for him in the first place? She worked for the Company at the beginning, and Mr. Parkman Sr. was one of the founding members. There was a split in the company, Matt's father may be in hiding from them and Molly was asked by Thompson to find him.
Anyway, the point I am trying to make is, just because in Molly's point of view the Nightmare Man is "way worse" than Sylar, that doesn't make him an uber evil or powerful villian for Heroes overall.
The Nathan theory is just way too far-fetched... there's no reason to think Niki has any sort of astral projection power, nor any reason for Peter to have Candice's power. Not to mention a guy with amnesia doing all this from Ireland subconsciously? Sorry, no way.
By the way, this whole thing should have been posted in the speculation thread... not episode discussion. I'm hoping a mod will move it there.
Anyway, I will point out a couple of things.
I've noticed you refer to the Nightmare Man as the guy who is supposed to be "uber evil" or "100 times worse than Sylar".
At no point was the Nightmare Man ever hinted to be a main villain, or even evil. The only things said about him were Molly's comments.
Think about the point of view here. A little girl, who has discovered a power that she can find people. What scares her? The Nightmare Man scared her at first, because she said when she looked for him, he could see her. Of course to her that's going to be incredibly scary... from her point of view, that makes him worse than Sylar. BTW this also means that she is able to look for the Nightmare Man, but he can see her when she tries. Don't take a little girl saying "can't" instead of "won't" as proof of anything... in a child's mind it is the same thing. Heck, a lot of adults I know seem unable to grasp the concept!
Later, the Nightmare Man is invading her dreams. My personal theory on this is that Nightmare Man, knowing she can find him, is doing whatever he can do discourage her from doing that. She's a threat to him, it doesn't even mean he is evil. We don't know what or who he may be hiding from, and he may have no idea who Molly is or why she was looking for him.
Why did she look for him in the first place? She worked for the Company at the beginning, and Mr. Parkman Sr. was one of the founding members. There was a split in the company, Matt's father may be in hiding from them and Molly was asked by Thompson to find him.
Anyway, the point I am trying to make is, just because in Molly's point of view the Nightmare Man is "way worse" than Sylar, that doesn't make him an uber evil or powerful villian for Heroes overall.
QUOTE (malek @ Oct 17 2007, 11:27 AM)
The "facts" advanced in this theory don't make sense and fail under scrutiny not only that it is complete garbage and makes no sense.
Hints, as stated in the opening post never facts there is no such thing as a fact in Cannon; that is how people can die come back, and die again only to come back. I am not referring to this show as coming back could be a power.
BTW I wasnt called a moron I did the calling, though I shouldnt have stouped to his level. I am sure that if this impossible theory about Matt's dad not being the Nightmare man is proven or highly suggested next week Malek and 314 will be the first to admit that this theory that makes little sense must have made plenty of sense to the writers who constructed it.
This will be my last post until after the next episode,which will be to admit I was wrong or vice versa about Matts Dad. Reading and posting takes up way to much time and I have a life outside heroes that is getting neglected
Stryker
QUOTE (malek @ Oct 17 2007, 04:27 PM)
listen easily put if you write something brilliant on these boards i will be the first one to proclaim your greatness and follow your idea.
but if you post stupid ... ****** that makes absolutely no sense and goes against everything that we have been spoon fed in the show. i will call you out for what you are.
too many people come here and spew total garbage thinking they are remotely intelligent for putting 2 straight sentences together. I want people to think twice before posting a theory to see first if it fits within the shows information/context.
Yes heroes have given us flips and misleading information ... but a 5 yo child is usually able to see straight through them, they are evident and really not that hrd to decipher.
this is not one of them.
The "facts" advanced in this theory don't make sense and fail under scrutiny not only that it is complete garbage and makes no sense.
so if your ego is too fragile to be labelled a moron for a moronic comment than think twice about posting.
but if you post stupid ... ****** that makes absolutely no sense and goes against everything that we have been spoon fed in the show. i will call you out for what you are.
too many people come here and spew total garbage thinking they are remotely intelligent for putting 2 straight sentences together. I want people to think twice before posting a theory to see first if it fits within the shows information/context.
Yes heroes have given us flips and misleading information ... but a 5 yo child is usually able to see straight through them, they are evident and really not that hrd to decipher.
this is not one of them.
The "facts" advanced in this theory don't make sense and fail under scrutiny not only that it is complete garbage and makes no sense.
so if your ego is too fragile to be labelled a moron for a moronic comment than think twice about posting.
I dont care one way or the other who is right or wrong, i think this threads are a fun way for people to say what they think, regardless you think they are moronic or not... and seen you apparently are a writer of the show or maybe Tim Kring in disguise, i guess yes, any other opinions that do not agree with yours is dumb then... Now... this is a TV show, what's your undying need to "call anyone out for what they are" ...isnt it worse than any (in your opinion) moronic opinion there is around... explain your point and move on, if you find the others too dumb... but i give ya something... this is really funny...
I'm the nightmare man. Shhh...don't tell anyone.
Alrighty, it seems people are discussing more how this thead got a tad ugly then whether or not Maury Parkman is the Nightmare Man.
First while I will say my first post here may of been a bit more harsh than necessary, while I have been on this forum I have seen some half baked theories and people just blather out nonsense. Due to this whenever I see a theory that is obviously wrong from what we know so far mind you I try to nip said theories in the butt before they gain momentum and get the entire board arguing. This is why I straight out said he was wrong and ridiculous, perhaps if I would of laid down all the evidence there is in my first post I would not have to be posting at this time but ah well.
In the end no matter what people think the show has shown Maury Parkman to be the Nightmare Man. ALL evidence suggest this in every way period. Perhaps in the end Maury Parkman is a scape goat of some sort or perhaps he is not the true Nightmare Man or whatever but with what we know right now he is the Nightmare Man..this cannot be denied in any way because of the overwhelming evidence.
At this point with what we know all we really can do is discuss whether Matt's father is being used a red herring or a scapegoat or whatever in all this. But we can't discuss whether or not the show has shown him to be the Nightmare Man as I clearly stated an overwhelming amount of evidence that the show has shown him to be the Nightmare Man.
..
With that lets all simmer down, relax, lay back & catch some sun and discuss the possibility of poor Maury being used in all this by an outside figure or the writers to throw us off the real bad man in this season. Because for all we know someone is controlling poor Maury to use his power in bad ways...and what is with all those helix drawings at his place...is he seeing into something else's mind who has made him hide and not want to be found at any cost hmm.
First while I will say my first post here may of been a bit more harsh than necessary, while I have been on this forum I have seen some half baked theories and people just blather out nonsense. Due to this whenever I see a theory that is obviously wrong from what we know so far mind you I try to nip said theories in the butt before they gain momentum and get the entire board arguing. This is why I straight out said he was wrong and ridiculous, perhaps if I would of laid down all the evidence there is in my first post I would not have to be posting at this time but ah well.
In the end no matter what people think the show has shown Maury Parkman to be the Nightmare Man. ALL evidence suggest this in every way period. Perhaps in the end Maury Parkman is a scape goat of some sort or perhaps he is not the true Nightmare Man or whatever but with what we know right now he is the Nightmare Man..this cannot be denied in any way because of the overwhelming evidence.
At this point with what we know all we really can do is discuss whether Matt's father is being used a red herring or a scapegoat or whatever in all this. But we can't discuss whether or not the show has shown him to be the Nightmare Man as I clearly stated an overwhelming amount of evidence that the show has shown him to be the Nightmare Man.
..
With that lets all simmer down, relax, lay back & catch some sun and discuss the possibility of poor Maury being used in all this by an outside figure or the writers to throw us off the real bad man in this season. Because for all we know someone is controlling poor Maury to use his power in bad ways...and what is with all those helix drawings at his place...is he seeing into something else's mind who has made him hide and not want to be found at any cost hmm.
"Matts Dad NOT Nightmare Man, Matt's dad is not the nightmare man."
But it'd be cool if he was.
~~~
Matt's Dad: I am THE ULTIMATE EVIL!
*points to Matt* And that's my fat son! xP
Matt: 'Ey! I'm NOT fat! =( Just abit pudgy..
Matt's Dad: Whatever. Get me a evil dounut,my failure of a son! xP
(C'mon! We all wanna see this happen. 83 -slips into shadows-)
But it'd be cool if he was.
~~~
Matt's Dad: I am THE ULTIMATE EVIL!
*points to Matt* And that's my fat son! xPMatt: 'Ey! I'm NOT fat! =( Just abit pudgy..
Matt's Dad: Whatever. Get me a evil dounut,my failure of a son! xP
(C'mon! We all wanna see this happen. 83 -slips into shadows-)
QUOTE (malek @ Oct 17 2007, 07:19 PM)
i couldn't care less if it hurt's anyone feeble ego or if you think i'm being belligerant or an arse.
Your words not mine... i too care less of what you are or think you are or what you think of others... this is a forum...to each its own i suppose... oh but for the off chance you ARE Tim Kring in disguise...whats up with that pukefest called Clarie/West romance... please Tim, you can do better than that...
k its time to bust in on the action here.
my 1.21 cents
claire storyline is just wasting time cause they don't know what to do with her at the moment. fine she is in a new town and trying to fit in. that will keep her bysy until she rejoins with a bigger storyline.
the twins, yeah it seems like they are kinda useless right now but they will probably get to new york after their lets say 3 more ep roadtrip with sylar and then they'll have a bigger role to play with this shanti virus. sylar might kill one of them but not both i think. just a hunch.
HRG and the haitian are probably gonna be out and about gather info and planning their big strike against the company.
hiro's gonna be tagging along with kensai and probably to make it interesting they will probably face at least 1 villain from feudal japan who has some ability to spice things up there. maybe someone who is immortal or something like that and he is probably gonna tie in to the big 12 somehow... lol yeah i know i just made that theory up now.
finally,
i dont see why everybody has a big prob with parkmans dad being the nightmare man. the writters probably wanted to do something different this season. cause last season we waited some time before we actually saw the mysterious sylar. and to do the same this time around would be boring. so instead they do the opposite. bam here he is, this is what he looks like. but of course just the fact that he doesn't look like a super evil guy is what is throwing everybody off. for all we know he is uluru lol. the fact that we have a face to put to the bad guy automatically makes us pre-judge him and thats exactly what the writters are betting on.
on a side note. since this chapter or volume is about generations i wouldn't be surprised if one of the other 12 was a parent of one of the other characters, maybe sylars dad, or niki's mom..
my 1.21 cents
claire storyline is just wasting time cause they don't know what to do with her at the moment. fine she is in a new town and trying to fit in. that will keep her bysy until she rejoins with a bigger storyline.
the twins, yeah it seems like they are kinda useless right now but they will probably get to new york after their lets say 3 more ep roadtrip with sylar and then they'll have a bigger role to play with this shanti virus. sylar might kill one of them but not both i think. just a hunch.
HRG and the haitian are probably gonna be out and about gather info and planning their big strike against the company.
hiro's gonna be tagging along with kensai and probably to make it interesting they will probably face at least 1 villain from feudal japan who has some ability to spice things up there. maybe someone who is immortal or something like that and he is probably gonna tie in to the big 12 somehow... lol yeah i know i just made that theory up now.
finally,
i dont see why everybody has a big prob with parkmans dad being the nightmare man. the writters probably wanted to do something different this season. cause last season we waited some time before we actually saw the mysterious sylar. and to do the same this time around would be boring. so instead they do the opposite. bam here he is, this is what he looks like. but of course just the fact that he doesn't look like a super evil guy is what is throwing everybody off. for all we know he is uluru lol. the fact that we have a face to put to the bad guy automatically makes us pre-judge him and thats exactly what the writters are betting on.
on a side note. since this chapter or volume is about generations i wouldn't be surprised if one of the other 12 was a parent of one of the other characters, maybe sylars dad, or niki's mom..
I just thought of something.
So if the first time we hear of the Nightmare man was in 1.23 and Molly says" I can find anyone i want to except this one guy, cause when i think of him he can see me". That obviously wasn't a direct quote but you get the point. Now i am not 100% clear on how her power works but i doubt she all of a sudden decied to look for every person in the world and then found this one guy. To me this tells us that someone asked her to find someone and this person scared her cause he can see her. At this point one could assume that the company asked her to find this Nightmare man. So now Matt's dad being the Nightmare man makes alot of sense since i am sure that the company would have many reasons to look for one of their founding members.
I think i am jumping on the "Matts dad is the nightmare man but really doesn't have bad intentions" band wagon. If thats not the case then someone is really messing with this little girls mind.
So if the first time we hear of the Nightmare man was in 1.23 and Molly says" I can find anyone i want to except this one guy, cause when i think of him he can see me". That obviously wasn't a direct quote but you get the point. Now i am not 100% clear on how her power works but i doubt she all of a sudden decied to look for every person in the world and then found this one guy. To me this tells us that someone asked her to find someone and this person scared her cause he can see her. At this point one could assume that the company asked her to find this Nightmare man. So now Matt's dad being the Nightmare man makes alot of sense since i am sure that the company would have many reasons to look for one of their founding members.
I think i am jumping on the "Matts dad is the nightmare man but really doesn't have bad intentions" band wagon. If thats not the case then someone is really messing with this little girls mind.
QUOTE (Flymon @ Oct 18 2007, 08:49 AM)
I just thought of something.
So if the first time we hear of the Nightmare man was in 1.23 and Molly says" I can find anyone i want to except this one guy, cause when i think of him he can see me". That obviously wasn't a direct quote but you get the point. Now i am not 100% clear on how her power works but i doubt she all of a sudden decied to look for every person in the world and then found this one guy. To me this tells us that someone asked her to find someone and this person scared her cause he can see her. At this point one could assume that the company asked her to find this Nightmare man. So now Matt's dad being the Nightmare man makes alot of sense since i am sure that the company would have many reasons to look for one of their founding members.
I think i am jumping on the "Matts dad is the nightmare man but really doesn't have bad intentions" band wagon. If thats not the case then someone is really messing with this little girls mind.
So if the first time we hear of the Nightmare man was in 1.23 and Molly says" I can find anyone i want to except this one guy, cause when i think of him he can see me". That obviously wasn't a direct quote but you get the point. Now i am not 100% clear on how her power works but i doubt she all of a sudden decied to look for every person in the world and then found this one guy. To me this tells us that someone asked her to find someone and this person scared her cause he can see her. At this point one could assume that the company asked her to find this Nightmare man. So now Matt's dad being the Nightmare man makes alot of sense since i am sure that the company would have many reasons to look for one of their founding members.
I think i am jumping on the "Matts dad is the nightmare man but really doesn't have bad intentions" band wagon. If thats not the case then someone is really messing with this little girls mind.
this is logical
fits to what we already know without dismissing facts (as given to us by the writers)
Matt's dad doesn't even have to be evil. all he might know is that someone is tryinhg to find him, he most likely thinks its the company since he has a past with them, so he is protecting himself and keeping the tracker away, he might not even know he is hurting a young girl.
that is even plausible and a natural extention of what you imply.
Man, those two were really going at it hammer and tongs there, why break it up ? What's the worst that can happen ? It's a forum, not a pub car park... this was turning into one of the more entertaining threads here, with the ballooning of such an insignificant detail into an impressively thorough dissection of the position of actors thumbs, the order of the words they said, what happens if you try to tattoo a ghost, can you imagine yourself better after being in a nuclear explosion... all valid and important issues, cruelly stamped on before we got to any answers.
I'm more alarmed by the fact that some people actually felt the need to step in and break up the argument, as if they read it and actually experienced witnessing it in real life, as if one person's email was going to ram a bottle in the face of the other email. Confusing. If people can terrify themselves to that extent reading forum posts, I shudder to think what would happen if they ever watched, say, The Ring. The Japanese one, obviously. Although if they're scared of emails, maybe they should try the remake.
Just to clarify, I thought these forums were exactly the place discussions like this should be happening, however heated - apart from the moron comment, which seems to have been at least partially retracted, none of the participants resorted to out and out insults, they just used their vocabularies to try and stress why what they believed was right, and in the process provided an entertaining read.
I hope I don't get told off by the moderators for this.
again.
I'm more alarmed by the fact that some people actually felt the need to step in and break up the argument, as if they read it and actually experienced witnessing it in real life, as if one person's email was going to ram a bottle in the face of the other email. Confusing. If people can terrify themselves to that extent reading forum posts, I shudder to think what would happen if they ever watched, say, The Ring. The Japanese one, obviously. Although if they're scared of emails, maybe they should try the remake.
Just to clarify, I thought these forums were exactly the place discussions like this should be happening, however heated - apart from the moron comment, which seems to have been at least partially retracted, none of the participants resorted to out and out insults, they just used their vocabularies to try and stress why what they believed was right, and in the process provided an entertaining read.
I hope I don't get told off by the moderators for this.
again.
What we really know about the Nightmare man is this:
A) He scares Molly.
When Molly looks for him, he can see her.
C) Molly identifies the face in a picture of Matt's dad as being the nightmare man.
D) Someone has some powerful mental powers and it's probably Matt's Dad
Could Molly, a child, be jumping to conclusions? I'd say that's not even remotely out of the question. She definitely associates Matt's Dad's face with her nightmares. Could it be that she's just sensitive enough that a powerful telepath like Matt's dad who may be having nightmares of his own, is projecting his fears to her and she's picking them up? Molly is afraid of him. Fear is caused by a lot of things, not the least of which is something people don't understand. Fear of the unknown would be especially profound in a child like Molly who has been so traumatized. Perhaps Matt's dad is simply trying to discourage her finding him. He is forced to disable her when she pinpoints his location. Maybe the dreams she's been having are her picking up the actual bad guy trying to locate Matt's dad. We just don't know at this point. I'd like to believe that there's more to this than just: Matt's dad is the bad guy. It's a little too simple for the plots on this show IMO.
A) He scares Molly.
When Molly looks for him, he can see her.C) Molly identifies the face in a picture of Matt's dad as being the nightmare man.
D) Someone has some powerful mental powers and it's probably Matt's Dad
Could Molly, a child, be jumping to conclusions? I'd say that's not even remotely out of the question. She definitely associates Matt's Dad's face with her nightmares. Could it be that she's just sensitive enough that a powerful telepath like Matt's dad who may be having nightmares of his own, is projecting his fears to her and she's picking them up? Molly is afraid of him. Fear is caused by a lot of things, not the least of which is something people don't understand. Fear of the unknown would be especially profound in a child like Molly who has been so traumatized. Perhaps Matt's dad is simply trying to discourage her finding him. He is forced to disable her when she pinpoints his location. Maybe the dreams she's been having are her picking up the actual bad guy trying to locate Matt's dad. We just don't know at this point. I'd like to believe that there's more to this than just: Matt's dad is the bad guy. It's a little too simple for the plots on this show IMO.
I think it is very clear that Maury Parkman is Molly's "Nightmare Man." That does not necessarily mean he is the person responsible for Kaito's death or the attack on Angela. It is understandable to assume that the Nightmare Man and the killer are one and the same, but I do not think that has been proven or even strongly implied. Unless there are some interviews/spoilers out there that I am unaware of stating that Molly's nightmare man is definitely the killer.
****DELETED****
My first post, and I'm jumping right in!
There is no way in hell that Parkmans Dad is the Nightmare Man...no way. Heres why:
We know what the Parkmans Dad looks like, we clearly see him point him out when Natan shows him the photo. So, from an audience point of view, were now have a face. I initially (and still do) believed that when Parkman showed Molly the photo it wasn't obvious who he was referring to, I took it that the Nightmare Man was in the photo, but not nessarcerily Parkmans Dad.
Anyway, when Molly agreed to track him, why (and for what reason) would the audience not be shown his face at this point? Instead, we got a tension building sequence of State, City, Building, Floor, Number, Opening Door..why build this suspense to show us what we already know?
Nah, there is no chance the Parkmans Dad is the Nightmare Man...I'm going out on a limb here and guessing its Kensei, afterall he is immortal(can regenerate) and may have been corrupt by the company over time etc, etc.
As for Peter and Nathan, I am still unsure about this, maybe the burned image is just showing us Nathans guilt.
Roll on Monday.
There is no way in hell that Parkmans Dad is the Nightmare Man...no way. Heres why:
We know what the Parkmans Dad looks like, we clearly see him point him out when Natan shows him the photo. So, from an audience point of view, were now have a face. I initially (and still do) believed that when Parkman showed Molly the photo it wasn't obvious who he was referring to, I took it that the Nightmare Man was in the photo, but not nessarcerily Parkmans Dad.
Anyway, when Molly agreed to track him, why (and for what reason) would the audience not be shown his face at this point? Instead, we got a tension building sequence of State, City, Building, Floor, Number, Opening Door..why build this suspense to show us what we already know?
Nah, there is no chance the Parkmans Dad is the Nightmare Man...I'm going out on a limb here and guessing its Kensei, afterall he is immortal(can regenerate) and may have been corrupt by the company over time etc, etc.
As for Peter and Nathan, I am still unsure about this, maybe the burned image is just showing us Nathans guilt.
Roll on Monday.
For some reason, there is a lot of Flaming in this thread. Please be respectful of others opinions and keep from personal insults. Also, a word of advice... Be careful what you call "facts" in comics!
QUOTE (OirishUser @ Oct 18 2007, 04:05 PM)
I initially (and still do) believed that when Parkman showed Molly the photo it wasn't obvious who he was referring to, I took it that the Nightmare Man was in the photo, but not nessarcerily Parkmans Dad.
Anyway, when Molly agreed to track him, why (and for what reason) would the audience not be shown his face at this point? Instead, we got a tension building sequence of State, City, Building, Floor, Number, Opening Door..why build this suspense to show us what we already know?
...I'm going out on a limb here and guessing its Kensei, afterall he is immortal(can regenerate) and may have been corrupt by the company over time etc, etc.
Anyway, when Molly agreed to track him, why (and for what reason) would the audience not be shown his face at this point? Instead, we got a tension building sequence of State, City, Building, Floor, Number, Opening Door..why build this suspense to show us what we already know?
...I'm going out on a limb here and guessing its Kensei, afterall he is immortal(can regenerate) and may have been corrupt by the company over time etc, etc.
I have clearly shown proof of Matt pointing to his dad in the picture when Molly freaked out as well as a bunch of other evidence showing Matt's dad to be the Nightmare Man. PLEASE look at my previous post to see this as I don't want to have to re-explain everything again.
As for why we didn't see his face at the end of her finding him, because Matt told her to get out once she said the apartment number but just before she could Matt's dad attacked her. That is why we never saw his face, that's not hard to understand.
As for Kensei being the Nightmare Man, that imply he was in the picture and as we all know he wasn't so ya...that theory just got destroyed by facts.
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