slusho
Oct 29 2007, 07:42 PM
If you look when Peter and Caitlyn enter the building in Montreal you can see that there is Samurai Armor hanging to Peter's left.
In the last scene of the episode with Kensei you can see that the guard to the right of Yieko is wearing the exact same armor.
Sorry, I don't have screencaps, but those with TIVO can check it out.
The building could be where Adam lives and keeps everything that he has collected over time. It looks as though there is a lot of random stuff in there, including a clock with no hands.
Shirtless Sylar
Oct 29 2007, 08:18 PM
The clock with no hands could be symbolic of him being ageless?
Just a thought :-p
slusho
Oct 29 2007, 08:32 PM
There is also a flag from White Beards Army (the red one with black diamond). Its behind Caitlyn in this same scene.
I have looked for other clues in this room, but these are all that I can find. Anyone else find anything?
DoctorClaude
Oct 29 2007, 08:34 PM
Also, can anybody get some screencaps? This is very cool.
JackManic
Oct 29 2007, 09:16 PM
he just might be kensei because there is this tidbit
In Heroes: The Mobile Game, Niki notes that Adam Monroe is one of the founders of the Company. She mentions his name alongside Daniel Linderman, Angela Petrelli, Arthur Petrelli, Kaito Nakamura, and Maury Parkman.
ABEIDO
Oct 29 2007, 09:22 PM
QUOTE (DoctorClaude @ Oct 30 2007, 05:34 AM)

Also, can anybody get some screencaps? This is very cool.
doggfatherJ
Oct 29 2007, 10:14 PM
this would give more evidence of Kensei killing Kaito Nakamura...
think about it.. most people have only speculated the people with the power of levitation (Nathan, and West)
west is already in LA, and as far as i can tell Nathan has no grudge agains Kaito...
so.. if this Adam guy.. really is Kensei... wouldnt it be a nice revenge that he kills the father of the guy that took his love away from him.?
oh well.. thats what i think..
SacredKnight
Oct 29 2007, 11:24 PM
That's exactly the way I'm seeing it now. Maybe Kensei is using Maury to do a lot of his dirty work, but Kaito was personal and as such he dealt with him personally. A calculated slap in the face to Hiro when he returned home.
Also, given the new idea of abilities growing in strength and evolving themselves over time (Maury's mind reading becoming stronger through the years), its plausible to reason that perhaps Kensei needs no time at all anymore to heal from otherwise deadly wounds, especially taking into account Kensei would have 400 years for his ability to evolve. For example, Claire falls off a building, she's busted up, she needs a few minutes to pop her bones back into place and whatnot. Kensei on the other hand, he's had his ability for so long, thus its more refined and so strong that any injury is nothing to him anymore, he just picks up right where he leaves off. Could explain how, if he's the killer, he's gone in an instant after he and Kaito go over, even before Ando gets to the ledge.
memoir
Oct 29 2007, 11:41 PM
Clock with no hands? Perhaps it's a watchmaker's appartment. :-)
aulduron
Oct 30 2007, 12:09 AM
Don't forget the helix over top of the front door.
jcroach
Oct 30 2007, 06:56 AM
very cool. Nice catch with the flag. Can anyone post a screen capture of the armor?
This would explain a lot. It would explain how Kensai's symbol became associated with the company. I'm excited for the rest of the season!
Yarr
Oct 30 2007, 08:51 AM
People assumed that the killer flew because thats what the show suggested. It was never stated as fact. The truth is that it would be very easy for Kensei to jump out as far as he could. Once he hit the ground he could come back to life and run away.
As it was suggested, his powers have probably evolved. I dont think his powers are the same as Claires, I think they are different. However, if they are regeneration powers, its possible that hes evolved to the point where he cant be hurt any more.
The preview also suggests that the only way to deal with this issue is to "Change History" as Peter's mother said in the voice over. This suggest that in the next few episodes we are probably going to see tons of crazy events play out and then have them all change as Peter teleports back in time and fixes everything.
RubberDucky
Oct 30 2007, 09:08 AM
was that white beard with Kensai at the end? if so was white beard also the one at the first scene of the season when the sun went black. now wasn't there a rumor that the eclipse was what awoke the powers in these people, so if it was white beard does he now have a power as well and could that be his house in Montreal?
to be totally honest, I was kind of hoping to see Kaito as the sword maker - it would have probably been a bit corny, but wow the direction that would have given the writers
Renrut
Oct 30 2007, 09:13 AM
QUOTE (doggfatherJ @ Oct 30 2007, 01:14 AM)

this would give more evidence of Kensei killing Kaito Nakamura...
think about it.. most people have only speculated the people with the power of levitation (Nathan, and West)
west is already in LA, and as far as i can tell Nathan has no grudge agains Kaito...
so.. if this Adam guy.. really is Kensei... wouldnt it be a nice revenge that he kills the father of the guy that took his love away from him.?
oh well.. thats what i think..
If Adam is Kensei and wanted revenge on Hiro he would have killed Kaito before Hiro was conceived.
miteyfulkron
Oct 30 2007, 11:09 AM
If the killer is Kensei/Adam, why would Pappa parkman have had a picture with Bob and the symbol on him?
Isn't it more likely that Pappa Parkman entered Kaito's and Ando's mind and made him jump off by thinking an assailant was coming at him? It would also explain Petrelli mom hurting herself in an empty room.
But the whole Adam/Kensei thing holds up very well, I just don't think he is the killer.
Justin
Oct 30 2007, 11:17 AM
QUOTE (miteyfulkron @ Oct 30 2007, 02:09 PM)

If the killer is Kensei/Adam, why would Pappa parkman have had a picture with Bob and the symbol on him?
Isn't it more likely that Pappa Parkman entered Kaito's and Ando's mind and made him jump off by thinking an assailant was coming at him? It would also explain Petrelli mom hurting herself in an empty room.
But the whole Adam/Kensei thing holds up very well, I just don't think he is the killer.
Or with his own... there's more to the story, but the fact that NO ONE's motivations are fully clear doesn't count out a Kensei-Adam, though, notably, Kensei is not present in the picture of the founding 12, nor does Bob speak of him very highly...
Interesting...
Yarr
Oct 30 2007, 01:56 PM
QUOTE (miteyfulkron @ Oct 30 2007, 03:09 PM)

If the killer is Kensei/Adam, why would Pappa parkman have had a picture with Bob and the symbol on him?
Isn't it more likely that Pappa Parkman entered Kaito's and Ando's mind and made him jump off by thinking an assailant was coming at him? It would also explain Petrelli mom hurting herself in an empty room.
But the whole Adam/Kensei thing holds up very well, I just don't think he is the killer.
Because Adam\Kensei is forcing Parkman Sr to help him.
kitty
Oct 30 2007, 01:59 PM
QUOTE (Shirtless Sylar @ Oct 29 2007, 06:18 PM)

The clock with no hands could be symbolic of him being ageless?
Just a thought :-p
I like!
But still don't think it's kensei...
slusho
Oct 30 2007, 02:38 PM
Here are the screenshots (borrowed from the screenshot request forum. Thanks geniegirl)
QUOTE (geniegirl @ Oct 30 2007, 12:41 AM)

Candice45
Oct 31 2007, 06:47 AM
QUOTE (slusho @ Oct 29 2007, 08:32 PM)

There is also a flag from White Beards Army (the red one with black diamond). Its behind Caitlyn in this same scene.
I have looked for other clues in this room, but these are all that I can find. Anyone else find anything?
My theory is that Kensai IS Adam Monroe, and the Seasons new big bad. He's maipulating Peter into thinking the Company are the villains when in actual fact their trying to STOP the virus. Wouldn't it be a twist if everything that Bob and Ivan said was true and the Company really IS reformed? And Kensai/Adam wants to unleash the virus because his immortality has made him insane. Think about it, the one man who he trusted as a friend betrayed him (In his eyes at least). He's can never have a true relationship with anyone, because anyone he cares for will wither and die while he stays young.
That kind of loneliness and sorrow would rive anyone insane. He'd be an interesting tragic villain.
But really, I'll just be happy as long as Sylar isn't involved, He was the big bad in Season 1 it'd be boring to just have it always be him in the end. And an evil Kensai would be very cool
Speaking of which...Is anyone else psyched for that Hiro/Kensei sword fight that's been prophesised in the paintings?
Exodio
Oct 31 2007, 09:47 AM
The house could easily belong to someone who has been fighting against Adam/Kensei (based on the theory that Adam is Kensei) and has collected trophies or important objects in an effort to understand/defeat him.
Someone like Hiro, who has returned to the present but is in hiding. Or someone as yet unintroduced. Although it would be hellacious cool for Kensei to walk in on Peter and Caitlyn.
And would be even cooler for Peter to then say "Dad?!?"
srschermerhorn
Oct 31 2007, 10:26 AM
I like the theory of Kensei and Adam being the same person. But not being the killer. It would make sense in Kaito's murder. Fall off the roof, regenerate and run away. But Angela Petrelli was locked in a room with no exits.
falwynn
Oct 31 2007, 11:07 AM
QUOTE (miteyfulkron @ Oct 30 2007, 01:09 PM)

If the killer is Kensei/Adam, why would Pappa parkman have had a picture with Bob and the symbol on him?
Isn't it more likely that Pappa Parkman entered Kaito's and Ando's mind and made him jump off by thinking an assailant was coming at him? It would also explain Petrelli mom hurting herself in an empty room.
But the whole Adam/Kensei thing holds up very well, I just don't think he is the killer.
There doesn't have to be a single killer.
I believe the Company broke apart. Linderman said as much to Nathan. Bob, Linderman, Angela and Charles kept the company going, while others, Adam and Maury and perhaps others, left.
Obviously, Adam Monroe and Maury Parkman are no longer part of the company which Bob is part of. It's not a stretch to think they are working together. Thus Adam could have taken Kaito Nakamura out, while Maury went after Angela.
From what we've seen of Maury's power, he evokes a nightmare in his victim that plays against their fears. If that's true, it doesn't really lend itself toward showing Kaito and Ando the same thing and making Kaito jump off the ledge. I think it's more likely that Adam just rushed Kaito and took him over the edge with him, healed up at the bottom and ran off.
Ronald
Oct 31 2007, 06:35 PM
QUOTE (falwynn @ Oct 31 2007, 03:07 PM)

There doesn't have to be a single killer.
I believe the Company broke apart. Linderman said as much to Nathan. Bob, Linderman, Angela and Charles kept the company going, while others, Adam and Maury and perhaps others, left.
Obviously, Adam Monroe and Maury Parkman are no longer part of the company which Bob is part of. It's not a stretch to think they are working together. Thus Adam could have taken Kaito Nakamura out, while Maury went after Angela.
From what we've seen of Maury's power, he evokes a nightmare in his victim that plays against their fears. If that's true, it doesn't really lend itself toward showing Kaito and Ando the same thing and making Kaito jump off the ledge. I think it's more likely that Adam just rushed Kaito and took him over the edge with him, healed up at the bottom and ran off.
The director said there was more to the struggle than what was easily seen. Indicating that somebody that was better than Kaito took him out. Kensei had 500 years to learn how to fight. As for the company splitting up, that doesn't meen that Kensei was part of the company at all. Maybe he was an outside source that convence somebody in the company to help him do what he couldn't do for the past 30 or more years. Take out Hiro and his family. Vengence can be sweet if served right. He started by taking out Mr. P who might have been watching Kaito's back or wanted to deter suspision off of him.
PeterForAll
Oct 31 2007, 08:17 PM
Wait - I think we're missing something: Kaito taught Hiro everything he knows about Kensei, and taught him to revere Kensei. If Adam = Kensei, why would Kaito have done that? Wouldn't Kaito know that Kensei = Adam?
There's one plausible explanation: maybe Kaito knew Hiro was going to back in time and wanted Hiro to know Kensei's story so well he could help him keep everything together, as Hiro has done so far - but oh my gosh, isn't that crazy? What a confusing loop!
Exodio
Nov 1 2007, 07:19 AM
QUOTE (PeterForAll @ Oct 31 2007, 11:17 PM)

Wait - I think we're missing something: Kaito taught Hiro everything he knows about Kensei, and taught him to revere Kensei. If Adam = Kensei, why would Kaito have done that? Wouldn't Kaito know that Kensei = Adam?
There's one plausible explanation: maybe Kaito knew Hiro was going to back in time and wanted Hiro to know Kensei's story so well he could help him keep everything together, as Hiro has done so far - but oh my gosh, isn't that crazy? What a confusing loop!
And in season 1 Kaito regrets telling Hiro any of the stories - it might not have been his idea to tell Hiro all the stories, it might have been Kensei's idea to teach the stories to him. If Kensei figured out who Hiro was, he might have been trying to send Hiro back with a love of Kensei that would prevent Hiro from betraying him. Only that didn't work out as expected, and he is really the (causal time paradox alert!) one who primed Hiro to betray him by filling his head with the stories of Kensei and the Princess (who Hiro was probably already in love with from the stories).
Ronald
Nov 2 2007, 08:56 AM
And just think, Hiro was going to go to the future after he saw that Kensei was back on track. His emotion got the better of him and he went chasing after something he knew he couldn't have. What did he expect, that Kensei would give up the girl that he was doing all this thing for anyway. Of course not. Kensei found out something that if Hiro wouldn't have gotten his nose in the first place would have not been a big deal. Kensei didn't know that he was suppose to fall for the girl and Hiro had to tell him. If Hiro just kept his mouth shut and thing developed than when he got caught, it might not have been a big thing until later.
Visitor27
Nov 2 2007, 09:33 AM
QUOTE
The preview also suggests that the only way to deal with this issue is to "Change History" as Peter's mother said in the voice over. This suggest that in the next few episodes we are probably going to see tons of crazy events play out and then have them all change as Peter teleports back in time and fixes everything.
Only this show doesn't work that way. We never see what happened first, cause it takes the drama out of it. I have a feeling Angela's quote may be taken out of context, like when we had the preview for The Hard Part that ended with just Angela saying, "Can you be the one we need." But, since I love Angela I want it to not be that way.
Here is another explantion. I noticed while rewatching The Hard Part, Angela says to Nathan, "You can change the course of history." So, Angela may just be a women who uses the word, "History" the way we all use "Future." From so many years of having access to what the future holds, through the 12, or I hope, her own power.
houtcalt
Nov 2 2007, 11:20 AM
It's making alot of sense.
If Adam is Kensei then I can see how:
1. He must have healed Nathan from his monster features and also knows that peter is alive.
2. He killed Kaito, thus surviving the fall.
3. Is the ancestor of Claire and Linderman which makes sense.
Let's see if this pans out.
kitty
Nov 2 2007, 11:23 AM
I just want to know if I'm the only one out there who doesn't think that Adam is Kensei...
Stoner
Nov 2 2007, 11:26 AM
QUOTE (kitty @ Nov 2 2007, 02:23 PM)

I just want to know if I'm the only one out there who doesn't think that Adam is Kensei...
Probably.
Sidious
Nov 2 2007, 11:55 AM
QUOTE (kitty @ Nov 2 2007, 07:23 PM)

I just want to know if I'm the only one out there who doesn't think that Adam is Kensei...
I'm leaning towards the "Adam isn't Kensei" way of thinking because I've heard
that Kensei is alive in the present and is still played by David Anders and still looks the same age. So if he was Adam Monroe then he would be in the picture of the 12 founders of the company but he isn't. So therefore Adam isn't Kensei and he is in fact one of the unknown men on the picture.
TrentSteele
Nov 2 2007, 12:06 PM
QUOTE (Sidious @ Nov 2 2007, 12:55 PM)

I'm leaning towards the "Adam isn't Kensei" way of thinking because I've heard that Kensei is alive in the present and is still played by David Anders and still looks the same age. So if he was Adam Monroe then he would be in the picture of the 12 founders of the company but he isn't. So therefore Adam isn't Kensei and he is in fact one of the unknown men on the picture.
But we don't really know what "the 12" refers to, exactly. Why do they, exclusively, have to be the founders of the company?
Sidious
Nov 2 2007, 12:54 PM
I'm sure they've said that the picture was the 12 founders of the company. If it's not then ignore what I said.
Explosivo
Nov 2 2007, 03:04 PM
There was feudal Japanese stuff in Montreal, but don't forget, there was also feudal Japanese stuff in Linderman's place. With these knucklehead writers, continuity is an afterthought, but still, it's a fact. Where did Hiro get the sword? From Linderman.
Chrusiel
Nov 3 2007, 07:44 PM
Yeah I think people are getting a little ahead of themselves... I don't think Adam is Kensei... that would just be too predictable that I think I might stop watching for good...
P.S I think Linderman is still alive
Ronald
Nov 6 2007, 06:48 AM
We the show confirmed that Adam is Kensei. Now it looks like he's after Hiro. How long was he in jail. Maybe he was in jail for 30 years and thats why Hiro wasn't killed when he was a boy.
Crypto
Nov 7 2007, 11:03 AM
Heres some Clarification/Speculation. Not sure what people consider a spoiler but just in case i'll give it ear muffs.
There are 2 Kensei's that people are debating about and they are VERY distinct. First there is the man who calls himself Kensei (Adam). Then there is the Legend of Kensei that Hiro heard about as a Child. Some of the feats in 'Legend of Kensei' were performed by 'Creator Kensei (Adam)'. But we also know that at least the last two feats were performed by Hiro, Thus making the Honorable Kensei in fact the Lovable Hiro.
Ok, So heres my take on this episode. Hiro went back in time and met Adam, who told people he was Kensei. However we now know that Hiro was the Kensei in the legends that he heard as a child from his father. His father tought him to revere Kensei (most likely, but not nessacarily knowing that Hiro would turn out to be Kensei), becuase the Kensei of legend was an honorable man. The man who created the legend of Kensei (Adam) is not so honorable.
Now We know Adam is bad and has most likely lived through the past 400 years waiting for a chance to get revenge.
To answer the comment about Adam (The one who created the image of Kensei) killing Kaito to innact his revenge against Hiro before he was born. This is quite a complex situation known to Phsysists as "The Grandfather Paradox". If you went back in time and killed your own grandfather, Your own father would cease to exist. There for you would never have been born. If Adam killed Kaito before he conceived Hiro, then Hiro wouldn't have been able to go back in time and turn Adam into the cleaner man that he is. He would still be a drunk bum and would be walking a different path. Although he was still a greedy man, so his path would have been a dark one still i have no doubt. But different none the less.
Damn what a good show
Mandy
Nov 9 2007, 12:48 PM
QUOTE (slusho @ Oct 29 2007, 10:42 PM)

If you look when Peter and Caitlyn enter the building in Montreal you can see that there is Samurai Armor hanging to Peter's left.
In the last scene of the episode with Kensei you can see that the guard to the right of Yieko is wearing the exact same armor.
Sorry, I don't have screencaps, but those with TIVO can check it out.
The building could be where Adam lives and keeps everything that he has collected over time. It looks as though there is a lot of random stuff in there, including a clock with no hands.
More on Adam/Kensai...
Everyone is assuming Kensai was Kensai first in the past [where Hiro travels back to and first meets him]. What if Adam/Kensai was Adam first and somehow has the ability to travel in time, like Hiro and Peter can.
Going out on a few limbs here. Wow, lets see if this makes sense and if people can follow me.
This would mean a few things:
1. Adam has multiple powers, either naturally or through acquiring them from others (the Peter way of absorption or the Sylar way of killing people).
2.if Adam has the ability to absorb powers, as Peter does, this would make a good reason for Adam to search for Peter.
3. This would also give him the possibility of being related to Peter. (Angela Petrelli was sending Claire to the UK to keep her safe? Isn't the man with the turned face in the picture blond & Nathan and Peter's father?)
4. Adam traveled BACK in time to where Hiro was, killed Kensai, used his samurai mask to trap Hiro by playing with his emotions, knowing very well Hiro would fall in love with the swordsmith's daughter....
Basically, Adam was going back in time to stop Hiro from getting more powerful and to possibly kill him. I don't think Adam was Kensai and lived so long to become Adam and seek revenge on Hiro.
BrokenHero
Dec 13 2007, 09:36 AM
Very, interesting stuff.
I think, perhaps might be Gabriel's Gray dad.
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