I know i brought this up in another thread, but I feel like this deserves it's own.


For the kensei/hiro painting to be true, one of the following three things would have to have happened:

1) kensei and hiro travel to the present/future and battle it out there.

2) hiro comes back to the present time and kensei lives to be 400 someodd years old because of his ability and fights him.

or
3) this is the first and ONLY painting by isaac mendez that showed a PAST event, rather than the future.

i really hope its NOT the latter.

Well it is a PAST event, but happening in the PRESENT of this time NEW line. Therefore, in the writiers eyes, this could still be a FUTURE event.

Isaac also painted Hiro fighting a T-Rex. Wouldn't that have been a past event like the Hiro/Kensei fight? Or a past event in a new timeline?

No cause that was explained in the scene when Hiro faces against the T-Rex in the museum. Which occured in the future.. well after Isaac painted it.

Darn. That was a pretty realistic looking T-Rex in the painting!

Anyway, it's a past event of a future timeline. So it could be argued that Isaac predicted a future event that would take place in the past.

from what i have gathered over the course of watching the series, this is a basic explanation of the way time travel and manipulation works in the Heroes universe:

time works in only one direction, forward, events happen, and you can alter the past, but in order for things to happen, people must still do the legwork.

lets use the example of the episode "Five Years Gone"

Hiro and Ando travel five years into the future, the bomb went off etc., they notice the string diorama in Isaac's apartment, done by Future Hiro to examine just when in the timeline things converged (that being Homecoming in Texas). Future Hiro then went back into the past and relayed "Save The Cheerleader, Save The World" to Peter on the subway, this set in motion the chain of events that would create a bombless future. However, everyone in the present would still have to perform all their duties (saving Claire, defeating Sylar, etc). Future Hiro was worried when Hiro and Ando appeared in the future, and asked if Claire was safe, and then was confused as to why the three of them were in their present situation. The bomb still needed to be stopped in the present, and thus the future still had a bomb until the events of Kirby Plaza happened in the present.


Thus, Isaac's painting of Hiro and Kensei happens in the future, in terms of the Heroes space-time continuum. Isaac died before Hiro was propelled back to 1671, and thus Hiro's adventures in the past happen later in the "timeline"

Like I said in the other thread:

An unwritten page of history, drawn before it's time.

Thats exactly what that is.

An event that hasn't come to pass, thats Hiro's future.

pretty sure when Isaac paints "the future" it is ment he is painting events that are going to happen, since Hiro didn't originally travel back in time (now i am pretty sure of this one although i wasn't sure) this event is something that was yet to happen

No, he doesn't paint the future of a timeline, he paints the future of a person. Remember, he had drawn Hiro in the past with Charlie and in 5 years gone.

I'm beginning to believe some of the paintings will take place in Nightmare Man's manipulations. It is a small stretch to paint a person's future, even if it is in the past.

Exactly... According to some theory's, Every time line plays out with every possible scenario happening. Therefor if Hiro were to travel back in time, He ceases to exist in this spacetime. He would still age appropriately to where he is now, so if he spent 50 years before returning to his original time line then he would indeed be 50 years older. So if this were the theory the writers were using (which makes sense as it is the more accepted theory among physicist's) then it would INDEED be Hiro's future to go back in time and fight Kensei. And it is not painting the past, but painting the future of Hiro.

Isaac had a Precognition ability. He is able to see events happen before they occur. When the picture of Hiro and Kensei was drawn, those events had not taken place. Hiro had not fought Sylar and he had not flung himself back 400 years.

His power isnt "To see the future only" his ability is to see events before they happen. Hiro was going to go back in time and change history, Isaac was able to see the actions Hiro was about to make.

PS: Dont create new threads because you dont like the answers people gave you in the last one.

actually, hiro hadn't met charlie yet when he painted that picture. sorry. and when was it EVER said that he paints the future of a PERSON and NOT just the FUTURE? I'd really love a quote.

The events of the past HAVE already happened. we are just witnessing them along with everything else because its a TV SHOW. Ando got the scrolls BECAUSE IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.

The past is the past. The present is the present. The future is the future.

Isaac paints the future. And until someone can show me evidence otherwise... that painting won't make any sense.

I'm going to have to agree here, the timeline is absolutely being set up so that Hiro is his own Hero, i.e. Kensei of legend is Hiro himself. Hiro does not fracture the timeline because it has always happened that way.

I agree that Isaac could not paint an event that has already occurred. Ans as far as the Charlie thing happening, remember that so many of Isaac's painting from the first season were painted previous to the events and bought by Linderman.

It would be very reasonable to assume that Kensei would not grow old, with constant healing abilities that a body would not age.

Isaac drew detailed panels depicting Hiro and Charlie's encounter in "6 Months Ago". He showed them to Hiro in "Fallout" and stated that he'd just drawn them a couple days ago.

So... the bottom line is, anyway you slice it, Isaac was able to do more than paint the future, even in season 1.

Who exactly listed him as a precog anyway?

they say it about 50 trillion times first season and in the second season HRG tells his wife the same thing.

but i guess you are right about the stuff with hiro and charlie. grrr.

god i hate inconsistancies. is it REALLY that hard to NOT do stuff like this TIM? You'd think you would have ENOUGH people on staff that SOMEONE would catch something like that.

"Hrmm. We have said NUMEROUS times that Isaac paints the future... but you know what? let's go ahead and have him paint the past a couple times. no one will notice."

jeez.

I took a shorter approach by simply assuming that it was a painting of Hiro's subjective future. At the time Isaac painted it, the events in the painting had not happened to Hiro yet.

i guess its possible (although directly contradictory of what they have said so many times regarding his power) that he paints the future of PEOPLE. but that wouldn't explain the thing with charlie and hiro last season.

Well, when Isaac painted it, Hiro hadn't gone back in time yet, so for Hiro, it IS a future event.

well im just saying that it was never said that his ability was to paint a persons future. it was to paint THE future.

Yeah, but most all of his paintings involved everyone else, but himself, (except the 5 that depicted his own death).

ok you should stop taking the exact words to heart. IF you go by that logic West said he didn't want to see Claire hurt but we saw that change. You need to remember that they are still people, they use words losly not thinking that alot of people are going to be examing them. It they explained Isaac's ability as be able to predict events that have yet to transpire in a certain person or people life it would just sounds stupid. Saying he paints the future it just more natural.

Also i looked future up in the dictionary and it said " time that is to be or come hereafter. something that will exist or happen in time to come:" Now using that definition, Isaac painting that Hiro would travel in time and fight Takezo is something that will happen in time to come.




Name one instance were he painted the future that didn't show one persons future, even if it affected more than just that one person.

Okay, for Charlie and Hiro thing, here's the proof of the future of the person, and this includes your proof, boonskank:

http://heroeswiki.com/Charlie%27s_birthday_party#Gallery

I think we have to look at the big picture here. The Hiro/Kensei painting is 1 in a series of 8, thereby showing that they are all interconnected and lead to some focal point in the future. Remember season 1 when Peter tells Isaac that the paintings formed pages of a comic book? The same thing is happening here. Isaac was merely the artist on the comic, following a script. And we know how the comic arc might end.

So the characters have to get their facts straight all of the time? People say that he paints the future, because that's what he can do. But at the same time he has also painted past events that had yet to actually occur. If the characters were explaining it to each other like that, it could be quite a mouthful. So maybe the character is mentioning the future painting, without really thinking that he has technically painted the past too.

The series has consistently presented time as a circle. All time exists at once, this is how Hiro is able to travel to the different times. When Hiro went back to time and met Kensei, he created a rip within the time circle. This hadn't before, so even though Hiro technically met Kensei hundreds of years before Isaac was painted, the even happened later in the circle.

It is the future for Hiro and he comes from that timeline so therefore Isaac did paint the future.. Hiro's future.

Ok think of it this way when Mr Isaac met Hero if he had shown Hiro the painting of him fighting Kensei would Hiro say Oh look that is a picture back 400 years ago when I fought Kensei. No because Hiro doesn't have those memories yet. It hasn't happened until Hiro brings it into existence.

Shut up. The painting is the future. Kensie is going to find a way to the future maybe latch onto hiro when he goes back i dunno. But it will happen and kensie is going to be a ****** in the future.

Alot people, myself included, believe that Kensie is immortal, so if that is the case this could still be the future.

It is the future, from a certain point of view. Hiro could be seen as sort of following his own timeline through history, even though it's out of order with everyone else's experience, as everything which has happened happened sequencially from his perspective.

Whoever said Isaac could only paint the future, simply because we became reliant on his pictures during volume one.. who ever said his only skill was to paint the future?

Dude, Issacs ability is that he can paint the future... not that he will always paint the future. He is a precog, thats it... enough with inconsistancies and all this rubbish... just because most of what we've been exposed to implies he paints the future doesnt mean thats all we should expect.

MAN, it like y'all wanna kill the fun of the show with your over-analytical crap sometimes, you guys really need girlfriends or something. get over it.

I noticed that the background color of both the Hiro v.s. T-Rex painting and this painting are the same colors and both of them contain someone that doesn't belong in that time which could mean that the ability is unsure where and when the event occurs.

I've seen the question here again about the Hiro vs the dinosaur painting not coming true yet, so here is a screen capture of it happening in the museum.

maybe Tim Sale was just told not to do backgrounds

im pretty sure i said this in my original post.