Okay...

Two seasons of Peter Petrelli being all powerful and yet all naive... all emo... and all gullible is becoming a bit much for me.

Why is it that Sylar can take Ted's power last season and we see him standing on a building lighting it up from one hand to the next? And yet Peter, who also can absorb powers -- including Sylar's original ability to 'see how things work' -- can only muster to use one or two powers with regularity and everything else tends to be accidental.

Case in point: he can use Matt's ability to 'hear' where Victoria keeps the virus... but can't use it to see if Adam is lying. He can go to the future to let us in on the virus plot device... but he can't get back to get Caitlin. He can try to use TK in the company of Bob, Elle and the Haitian (so he knows he can do it)... yet he can't use it to disarm Victoria twice or Adam before he shoots Victoria in the head.

He could have gone invisible and stayed in the room to listen to Adam monologue while finger-painting with blood!

Don't get me wrong, I really like Heroes but... it is a really sloppy show in terms of the use of abilities. I am not certain if they should be moving on the the evolution of powers yet when it seems to me that we need to 1) establish the limits of abilities 2) get to mastery of those abilities, and 3) then explore the implications of how having abilities affects these folks in their day to day lives. Then I think we can really unwrap the evolution of these abilities.

I just keep getting the sense that there is no plan on this show. Some things move too slow, some things (like the evolution of abilities) too fast, IMHO. But nothing is more frustrating to me that Peter Petrelli and his accidental powers.

What do you think?

remove the abilities and this show could still be good ... why ... easy the writers have not a clue on how to properly write sci-fi or powers.

it's horrible,

for ordonary people using their powers they are pretty dumb witted. The only one acting remotely like a normal person that gets currupted by his power is Sylar.

why cant their be a good guy that actually embraces his gift and gets excited by it and tries to use to to it's full potential.

Like that god awful stupid black girl. I mean first thing i would have done when bob gave me that little video device is sit nonstop until i had watched everything on it before i left the house to attempt anything.

but no this dumb broad decides i'll let leave it my pocket get dressed go in the dark and mere moments before doing my thing watch onlhy 5 sec worth of tape.

And then when i hear noise instead of escaping to the roof where no one can see me i hide in plain sight like a 2 year old hiding behind his finger.

good things the writers are on strike i say fire their ****** and hire new staf that actually understand how these types of show are supposed to go.

Hell even the crappy x-men wannabe series (cant remember the name) had better stories than this.

I agree at you at some level... I think they made a huge mistake with Peter and the "all powers scenario" after watching season 1 again, I think the original intend for Peter was that he could absorve the power of a person close to him for that moment alone, meaning that when that person wasn't around, he couldn't use that power. That would have make more sense, that way we wouldn't have an all powerfull heroe that uses the powers in esporadic burst like we are having now, instead, a much interesting Peter that without people around him, was not special at all (but is special in the sense that he wants to do good regardless). He said to Ando in Texas "without people with power close to me, I am nobody" or something like that.

The "using Matt power to read Adam" is kinda more difiicult, in other posts there are theories that Adam might well know how to block people from reading minds and we have seen others do it (Mama Petrelli, HRG etc) so is not a big leap of faith to assume he can block Peter some way.

Also, Peter may have Sylar's ability to see how things work, but he has to also do the "rewiring" of his brain in order to make the powers work the way it suppose to...Sylar does this, Peter,I think, doesnt even know he has the capabilities to do it, so having Sylar's power is useless for Peter unless Sylar explain it to him LOL... I dont know if i explained myself correctly.

Having his power been limited to being around others might have been challenging, but it is no different (I guess) than having him constantly stumbling about his abilities.

I am certain they were very cognizant of the X-Men's Rogue when they created Peter, but I would have rather seen him have to touch people before being able to mimic their abilities. That would have limited his ability to stockpile so many powers and then leave fans frustrated by creating false danger for him by having him 'forget' he has the specific ability to get him out of the situation.

And I still think that if Sylar's ability is to see how things work (as it has been explained by Sylar himself) then Peter should have that too. His fumbling around is simply in order to keep the plot moving around him when the writers have stocked him with all the the abilities he needs solve most problems.

I guess, as I write this, this is really a two part thread: 1) Peter and his accidental powers; and 2) did the writers give Peter too many powers to keep him interesting and smart? Is it now necessary to make him an idiot to keep the plot moving forward when Peter is on the screen?

What say thee?

1st part: If they went with Peter only using abilities while a person with the say ability is around, would allow the writers to stop putting Peter in the situations you point out (been a drooling idiot) cause then he wouldn't be so indestructible and hence new danger scenarios could be more realistic and less contrived.

2nd part: I agree about Sylar's ability, but the problem is, Peter doesn't know he have half the abilities that he have. There is no way for him to tab on to Sylar's ability if he doesnt even know he have it and then, rewire his brain as Sylar do to make the other abilities work alright.

3rd part: That's the problem the writers have. In making an all powerfull Peter, they made a hole for themselves, they now need to make him vulnerable someway or it will be a very short series...Peter with all the powers will pwned everyone, end of crisis, the world is safe...

back to you

Gullibility and stupidity seem to be excellent vulnerabilities.

Peter really needs vulnerabilities or he becomes WAY too powerful (in fact he already is really)...

That said, to defend the plotline as it stands, Peter never really practises any of his abilities, and isn't even aware that he has most of them -- they just surface as he needs them and he's as surprised as anyone -- even without the amnesia that's still mostly true! He just doesn't know what to do with himself (any more than the writers do).

I'd really hate Peter (the "person") to be one of the two to die next episode, but unless he gets infected with the virus they (seem to have) tried out on Sylar I think it's necessary.

Peter's greatest power is also his greatest weakness. Charles Deveaux was the one to point out how much empathy he had and how it could eventually save the world. He believed that Peter had the heart and the love to save the world, and as we saw in the climax of volume 1, he was right. Right now Peter has the most empathy for Adam but this is mostly due to Adam brainwashing him. If he wasn't so empathic towards Adam's situation and his treatment by the company then he wouldn't be so blind to the obvious truth that Adam is evil and intent on destroying the human race. Peter follows his heart, not his head, and it is this that always lands him in perilous situations.

You could say this is why his use of powers is not always the best it could be in every situation. Surely if he wasn't so motivated by his emotions he would be able to think clearly and pick out a power suitable for the situation. Instead his emotions pick which power he uses, he very rarely uses them offensively and even then they are to protect those he feels for or to protect himself. Angela herself said that Peter was a mess of emotions and that was why she believed it would be Nathan that would lead the world after the explosion.

I think Peter's characteristics may have "evolved" (not literally, but in the writer's minds) to make him more of a foil to Sylar. Where Sylar is cold, selfish, calculating, competent, and wants to be special; peter is warm, selfless, emotional, bumbling, and wants to be normal (at least now that he's got a taste of what being special is like...he doesn't like it!). Personality-wise, he's Sylar's exact opposite. I can imagine the writers thinking, "what would it be like if we gave two people almost the same exact power, but opposite personalities?"

And remember, Sylar takes his powers deliberately, and knows what he's getting (usually having seen it demonstrated, or at least having some background on who he's getting it from. With Peter, that's NEVER been the case...most of the time, he absorbs the power without seeing it demonstrated at all. Elle's is one of the few exceptions. And whereas Sylar can freely pull out whatever ability he wants, with conscious choice, Peter's are emotionally-related.

And as an aside, have any of you had dreams, where you have super-powers? I have, and they are HARD to use! I often know that I can fly, or reshape reality with my mind, but I can't do it like snapping my fingers. Often, my "dream powers" manifest without me even thinking about them. I'm guessing it's similar for Peter (except that he's not dreaming). You don't move your arm by thinking "move arm", you just move it; I think for Peter, getting these new abilities is like getting new limbs that he's never moved before. Until he really starts training himself and learns how to bring his abilities under full conscious control, it makes plenty of sense that they're more just spastic reactions to his emotional desires. Don't forget too that he can't even control his "native" power of empathic mimicry--he can't even choose not to absorb a power, or to let one go. So why should he be an ace with the ones he wasn't even born with?

I think both Hiro and Peter are way too powerful. Sylar too is pretty powerful, but he is a villain so it's good to make him powerful as it makes him a worthy adversary. Not only that but he has to work for his powers, so it's not quite like Peter who gets them for free.

Hiro being able to freely moved through timespace makes him potentially extremely dangerous. They've established that two different heroes can have the same power, so it's pretty much just a question of when an honey is born with Hiro's power and decides he'll conquer the past, or something along those lines. I'm cool with briefly stopping time, briefly reversing time, slowing down time, and so on, but traveling hundreds of years into the past and remaining there for several days is just ridiculous. Even when Future Hiro traveled just five years into the past he only had a short moment to be there and even at that he was risking causing a "rift" (whatever that is).

Usually when a superhero is extremely powerful he or she is given a flaw to balance things out. Peter's limitation should be that he forgets powers over time, or he has sort of an imaginary power-meter which only allows him to use the power for so long before he can't use it anymore. The idea that he gains a power every time he's near another hero and never loses it is ridiculous. Like I said about Hiro, if ever a bad guy had such a power people would be in serious trouble.

And also, how come all this season he's never been in danger of exploding? He still has Ted's power, and he's had it for a good while now, yet he's never taken the time to learn how to control it, ever. He should be ready to explode any moment now.

Sylar's ability is like intuition: he knows how it works, so he can understand how to use a power once he gets ahold of it. Peter, on the other hand, just absorbs it from no knowledge of what's going on.

Not only that, all those powers that he's absorbing could lead to some major physical stress, hence the reason he lost it at Kirby Plaza.

I guess I am amazed at -- without offending anyone -- the level of intellectual gymnastics hard care fans take to explain Peter's issues, which in my mind require a simple...

"Because, it seems, the writers don't know what they are doing now and didn't know what they were doing they created an all-powerful Peter."

The complexity of the responses speaks to the poor job done at defining this, and other, character(s).

Regarding not knowing about the powers:

Peter pulled out TK for the first time to fend off Claude without being knowing explicitly he had it. He did the same with DL's phasing to get out of the ropes in Ireland. So he doesn't need to know he has it to use it.

Even if that is true that he does need to know, Peter is aware that he's been around Matt, Sylar, Isaac, Claude, Nathan, Claire, the Haitian, Ted, Elle, Hiro and Adam. So he should be aware of those powers and using Sylar's "knows how things work" power to figure them out. He has been around others, like Eden, but hadn't seen them use their powers.

Additionally, all the talk about him overloading with abilities last year is a joke too. Think about it? If he was able to absorb DL's power from across the Plaza he could overload just walking around New York. God knows how many powered people he walks past or interacts with everyday without his knowledge... and yet... no meltdown.

IMHO, Peter will have to be reimagined in the future with fewer powers or an explanation of why he only is able to keep a few at a time. Otherwise, like Superman, it will be boring to have him on the screen... because he'll either be so much more powerful than any threat to him or the writers will continue to make him dumb as a box of socks in order to manufacture peril for him.

IMHO, the next villain should be an another empath who is looking for Peter, to absorb his powers and who the others have to keep away from him. Yes, he could kill him/her theoretically but then it would have the same powers. Maybe he/she has to touch to absorb. It would give the rest of the cast something to do and would force Peter to think through how to defeat this person.



But he would have absorbed Sylar's 'intuition' as well. That's my point. They make he stupid because he is more powerful then the danger he is facing at a given time.

Even though Peter has absorbed Sylar's intuitive aptitude, that doesn't mean he's ever actually had it active. It's probably a power that he isn't aware of and hasn't accidentally stumbled into. Considering that his mom and others he's been around seem to have powers that Peter hasn't used, I don't think it's too far fetched that Peter just hasn't accessed Sylar's intuitive aptitude. So, he doesn't share the same understanding of how things work that Sylar does.

I knew I should've made my screen-name "IntellectualGymnast"! That's really part of the fun of the whole fantasy experience for me, just trying to explain it to myself satisfactorily when it's clearly impossible nonsense. I don't really enjoy just "letting it go" because the writers are capricious and/or incompetent.

That said, Peter's powers are essentially reactionary. He uses them under duress, as a sort of reflex response, or in times of strong emotional agitation...he can only use them, so far, when they are the logical extension of a passionate desire. Someone attacks him, and we wants to defend himself, so the "lizard brain" part of his mind triggers the use of some appropriate power: a lightning bolt to knock away a thug, TK to disarm a gunman, super-strength to knock someone across the room, phasing to get out of rope, invisibility to hide from scary Sylar, regeneration to fix his own wounds, flight to save his brother, mind-reading to get information he really wants out of someone's head. I think they are mostly controlled by reflex responses, or in some cases emotional triggers (like his precognitive painting episode in Caitlin's apartment). There are many layers to consciousness, and Peter's powers seem to be controlled by something deeper and less focused than Sylar's. It's only recently that he's had any skill at manifesting specific abilities voluntarily...I guess we have Adam to thank for that, for getting Pete to walk through walls on command at least.

I mean, we have no idea how his brain or body changes to acquire or accomodate these powers, or how they even enter his body! Does he emanate some psychic field that picks up on any evolved DNA within it? Heck, for all we know, he DOESN'T absorb every power he comes in contact with! Ever thought of that? Maybe it's a crapshoot whether he will or won't pick up someone's power. Maybe he doesn't actually have all the powers we think he does, and that's why they haven't been used? What if all he got from Sylar was telekinesis?

And maybe his explosion from Ted's power wasn't caused by a power overload, but by his own stress and fear about being the bomb? The mind has a way of making its own fears manifest, ya know.

Point being: we are given very little info in the show about how Peter's power works, and why it works the way it does. It's easy to invent theories to explain it, so at least in theory it makes perfect sense...unless you want to be stubborn about it. But why would you want to be stubborn? Relax and enjoy the show. Go ahead, buy into my ridiculous theories, the show's more enjoyable when you let it make sense!

Though I admit, it would be awesome if Sylar and Pete could be friends and cooperate, because then Sylar could show Pete how to use that ol' intuitive aptitude to figure himself out and use his powers like a champ instead of freaking out about them like a wuss. We need Claude to come back, so we can have another Peter training montage!

Anyone wondering if Peter can absorb the Haitian's power? If Sylar killed the Haitian and took his power, couldn't he use that as a defense against Peter? Aka, block Peter's power and stop him from absorbing new Sylar powers? Or would Sylar nullify his own powers except that of the Haitian's?

Can the Haitian control whose power he can disable? I seem to recall Matt Parkman using his mind reading abilities in the future with the Haitian around.

Clearly impossible nonsense. Loving that!

Last season I too made up for the writers lack of disclosure of certain tidbits of information. I would simply assume certain things that I wasn't being told.

But when you see things this season that are diametrically opposed to your season 1 'fill in the blanks' assumptions then you feel less willing to guess anymore and simply want the answers. And more to the point, I feel that we don't get the answers because doing so would force the production team into limits. I just get the feeling that they want it both ways.

This season hasn't been good for my relationship with the show at all. The show has been inconsistent and sloppy, for me. This season was the first time I Tivo'd the show and watched it later than Monday night. I have a feeling that the show, if it keeps on its present course, will go from being appointment TV for me to "oh, that show's still on?"

I would HATE that, 'cause as I life-long SciFi/comic book fan it had (has?) more potential to keep me engaged than any show in recent memory.

You are talking about Future Hiro who has learned some life lessons. Current Hiro sees his ability as a shiny new toy.

When did we need ALL the answers? Somethings are best unsaid because they will never live up to what we want.

except that the writers themselves have said that Pete has absorbed ALL of Sylar's powers, and all powers at Kirby Plaza (Niki, DL, Micah, Molly)

Ok, so assuming Peter HAS absorbed the powers of every single Hero he's met, here are Peter's current abilities:

Himself - Power Mimicry
Nathan - Flight
Isaac - Painting the Future
Charles Deuveax - Unknown (possibly Astral Projection)
Angela Petrelli - Unknown
Arthur Petrelli - Unknown
Sylar - Intuitive Aptitude, Telekinesis, Super Hearing, Matter Liquification, Cryokinesis, Super Memory, Intimidating Voice (no one ever mentions this, but both Sylar and Peter have used it multiple times)
Claire - Cellular Regeneration, Healing blood, Immortality (probably)
D.L. - Phasing
Niki - Super Strength (Perhaps also Invincibility? I mean, if she punches through a brick wall with her strength, shouldn't her hand get cut up? She just never seems to get hurt!)
Micah - Technopathy (Control machines and technology)
Elle - Electricity
Adam - Cellular Regeneration, Healing blood, Immortality (definetly)
Hiro - Time/Space control and travel
Ted - Radioactivity (he could do alot more with this!)
Claude - Invisibility
Bob - Alchemy
Simone - Unknown (She may not have had a power)
Matt - Telepathy/Mind Control
Molly - TeleLocation
Haitian - Power Supression and Memory Erasure (he may not be able to absorb the Haitian's power due to it's nature)

... Did I miss any?

Peter essentially is a god at this point. He's Immortal, Virtually Omnipotent, Omniscient, and can be Omnipresent if he wants to be. I think he knows it at this point too. I'd love for him to run into Sylar again. Honestly, what can sylar hope to do to him? Maybe on the outside chance he can use Maya's Plague power (if he kills her for it) against Peter, but I don't think that would kill him. And Petey could just stop time/teleport away/go nuclear/whatever.

I posit that the only people who can actually kill Peter are the Haitian and Hiro. The Haitian could just block Pete's powers and shoot him, cut his head off and drop it in a barrel of acid. Hiro could go back in time and kill Peter as a child (but I doubt Hiro has child murder in him). I don't believe Adam's fear of the headshot. After that explosion in Ancient Japan, I'm pretty sure a shotgun is not so much a problem for any of the healers. Even if it is, Peter and Sylar have both shown enough aptitude with the Telekinesis that they can stop bullets.

So yeah, Peter's only weakness is his constant confusion about everything around him.

Well I agree Im getting pretty tired of Peter, the person who is supposed to be the most powerful hero, being as dumb as a plank of wood.

Come on if all his memory is back why cant he remember his training with the invisible man, Claude.

I don't need ALL the answers. And I understand that you and others may not need any. But for me to enjoy this universe I need to understand its rules. And the rules need to be consistent. That is all I am after.

If not in the series I plead with Kring to publish the Company's records as a book, during this off season, that contains known abilities and limits/by-products of powers gathered from the decades and grabbing, tagging and testing. For instance, does expending electrical current require Elle to eat more carbs for energy?

If you think of Heroes as "Justice League" Peter is Superman. All powerfull and the rest of the team are support because he can't be everywhere at once, but the drama comes in the fact that without Peter/Superman the rest of the team becomes more vunerable to harm. Not saying the other Heroes aren't just as important, just not as DIRECTLY powerful as Peter. Hiro interestingly enough would be "Green Lantern" number two on the power scale and much more complex character wise...

The problem with Superman, and Peter, is that because they are so powerful, they have to have humble, naive, and unassuming personalities to not become corrupt or jaded., and to not become an easy story fixer... Peter will more then likely always be a dreamer that wears his heart on his sleaves and carries hope and compassion for humanity. Peter's weakness or "Kryptonite" is he is too trusting and still doesn't fully believe in himself. In a story with so many Heroes, if Peter were more confident and understood his powers it would take away from the story, like a harder edged superman would in DC comics...

The reson he doesn't read Adam's mind? He trusts him, period. He has no reason not to. He proved the company had bad intentions towards Peter, He cured Peter's brother Nathan, Peter saw the virus' effect in the future, he just found out the company was responsible for the virus backed up by Victory, then Adam acting like he's being nice and letting Victoria goes "saves" Peter's life... From Peter's point of veiw, Adam is a mentor/friend and Peter has very few friends and much less that share his passion for saving the world...

Peter will at least for a long time feel like he isn't capable of handling all the powers he has, and won't trust himself to be the Heroe he could be because of how he was raised, second place, and treated as a failure. They basically gave the strongest power to the guy with the most compassion an empathy, but lowest self esteem and trust in his own abilities, superpowered or not. Peter IS what heroes is all about, a nowmal person given ultimate power that wants to do good, but has no idea where to start, who to trust, and has no faith in his self...

I am pretty on board with your theory. I just posted something similar to this in regard to him reading Adams mind. I basically said he needs a reason, a motivation to use a power. He has many powers, and it seems to be a challenge for him to use them. Until he has some time to learn the extent of his powers, he will probably not have voluntary control of his powers.

That all leads me to think that he can't read Adam's mind because he (in his mind) has no reason to not believe him. The moment he thinks he is truly being decieved he will as a reflex hear the thoughts in Adam's head.

I have no problem with the inability of Peter to use the powers. Look at the characters we are talking about:

Sylar believes he is "Special" and has a gift. He wants wants wants it. So he gets his first power, and spends quite a bit of time practicing it. He learns to use it because he wants to and understands it. Every ability he then picks up, he figures it out and practices it. He knows what he is getting. And has spent a lot of time practicing his various skills.

Peter accidently flies - accidently dreams - heck, he doesn't even know sometimes that he is absorbing powers - he can probably use Eden's voice, but isn't even aware of it. The only things he knows for sure he has gotten are Flying from Nathan, Radiation from Ted, Mind reading from Matt, Healing from Claire. He is pretty sure he has some sort of dreaming power, maybe, from Charles. And Invisibility from Claude.

And, when has he had time to practice? 1st season he ran around for weeks trying to figure out what was going on to him, finally got someone who had an inkling, and spent a couple what, days? Working on control. And then, after he looses control and explodes, he is locked up for 4 months trying to keep everyone safe, with no access to his powers. He gets out and spends the next amount of time locked up in a shipping container. Now that he finally has his memory back, he is on the move again. When exactly do you expect him to spend a huge amount of time honing his abilities?

I think a lot of people want him to be Superman. But for all the reasons you have staed he is not, and that is what makes his character intersting to me. The story of Peter, is the story of how he will come to embrace his power, or be destroyed by his power.

Yep, Edens Power.

Story telling usually is about a hero's journey to overcome obstacles.
The annoying thing about Peter is that the writers have given him powers that easily overcome any external obstacle. Isaac's precognition allows him to see dangers well in advance, Hiro's power allows him to stop evil before it happened, Matt's mind-reading provides him with the possibility to realize people's true intentions, and so on.

In theory.

Because without obstacles, no character growth. Without character growth, stagnation. And stagnation is boredom, and boredom is losing viewers.

So they gave Peter inner obstacles.

Writer's 101: People don't relate to perfectness, they want to find themselves in the character, so attach some character faults.

The problem is that they didn't give Peter "real" faults. They still wanted him to be the unwavering, good, likeable, modest, but incredibly powerful hero, so there is no place for real faults.
Instead they made him too sensitive and try to pass that off as his greatest mistake. He can't help to feel.
Among all the faults they could have given Peter, this one is the most positive.
And it leads them head-on to a dead-end.

What happens when Peter overcomes his inner obstacles, and learns to control his emotions, and by this masters his powers?
Basically, the story ends.
He's too powerful.

Right now, people complain that he doesn't use his abilities, because he lacks the self-control. This entire thread is full of excellent descriptions why he doesn't use this or that power, but it can't go on like this forever.
The longer it will continue, the more people will jump from "he's such a beautiful, sensitive soul" to "geez, it was good the first ten times, but get a grip, will ya!"

Honestly, how much more of Peter's "I can't control it!" can you take? Two more seasons? 4? 6?
I was already fed up a few episodes after Homecoming, and Peter even was my second favorite character in the beginning.

Eventually he'll gain control. And people will start to complain that he doesn't use his powers. Because if he used them, it would destroy every plot line, as I described above.

Peter is incarcerated by the writer's decision to make him the Champion for Good and their intention not to kill a good story by a God-like character.

He'll probably go the way of the Mary Sue. The ultimate self-sacrifice. People with so much power can't live long.

I have to agree with this.

He doesn't have to know about it to access it, but how do you use it if you don't stumble upon it?

From the TK he used on Claude after gaining it from Sylar, he accessed it, but didn't have complete control of it at that moment.

He has to stumble upon it to get it's true power, so if he hasn't stumbled upon the Intuitive ability thing, he isn't gonna use it.

Whatever!!!The fumbling around with the powers is getting really old. At first I liked his character but if Parkman can settle down and gain mastery over his powers than Peter should be able to as well. At least gain control over 3 or 4 powers really well. Such as Flight, invisibility, time travel, and cell regeneration; and than he would be really badazz or whatever but do something.

i don't think Kring himself could have said it better

No-one has really mentioned what the affect of Adams betrayal on Peter will be; we may well be seeing a darker, less empathetic Peter in the future.

I like that we have been given such a powerful character in Peter. I don't like that the writers have made him so inept. Superman's greatest challenge came from two non-powered beings, Batman (an awesome hero) and Lex Luther (an awesome villian). Both have proven most formidable adversaries! Why, because they are smart and resourceful. And Superman always, in spite of his great arsenal of powers, must always rely on his brain to meet their challenge. This is great writing! The Superman saga is great because of it.

The same could happen with "Heroes" and Peter with better writing. Our greatest hero in "Heroes" is mentally challenged, at best, and extemely lucky (in spite of all his magnificent powers) to still be alive! I am waiting, like everyone else, for story lines that are equal to the successful superhero comics (and movies) on which this show is based to finally emerge. You don't have to lessen the characters, you have to make them more.

I hope that with the third season, as promised, they get it right. The "Heroes" fans are very, very sophisticated, and as the client, deserve a more sophisticated product. If Tim is truly listening to the fan base, then he should realize this and produce a better product in the future.

Creator

The writers said he "COULD" absorb all of Sylar's powers, not that he "DID" absorb all of Sylar's powers.

First of all, the Powers are triggered through various mental responses and scenarios. These mental stimuli are what allow the manifestation of all the powers until the individual is able to overcome them through diligent training and understanding.

Let's take Niki, after her sister died, her family reaching destitution from D.L. going straight, she had a strong psychological need to become stronger like her sister. to be able to endure for her family and protect them from any threat. Unfortunately her self esteem and constant belief that she is never that strong pushed her into having MPD and develop strength. when she realises she is strong without her other self she was able to acively use her abilities and fight over her persona's more easily.

let's take a look at mat, he was a deadbeat cop, who had a failing marriage because he couldn't communicate or relate with others very well. He couldn't pass the exams for detective because he has dyslexia forceing him to rely not on sight. This caused him to only initially hear thoughts which after he met his father and learned that it was more than hearing thoughts he bypassed that limitation and went into full telepathy.

Now lets get to Peter, he absorbs these powers passively, his power works by remembering the feeling he gets from people with abilities. Hence the empathic side of his power, by knowing who and what power are absorbed he can recall the emotional feeling his empathic power recorded at those moments. He subconciously records the same mental triggers and stimulus that the hero he takes a power uses to initiate thier powers. This was why it was important for him to place faces and emotions to the powers he absorbed. Over time he like others can overcome these triggers to use the powers at will. Peter though has to know what power they have in order to recall the mental stimuli that triggers the abilities, meaning if he doesn't see the power in use he doesn't know who to recall empathically to use that ability. This forces peter to instinctively use powers that he has no face for, like the original owners he develops his own triggered mental stimuli to even manifest them, which is why he randomly develops them. his amnesia is perfect for this, he used fear and confusion to manifest lightning, summoning only when frieghtened or in a tense confusing situation, anger for his Super strength, etc..

Now combine that with peter current mental issues, he has a lack of control due to his current esteem issue. He has been burdened not once but twice with being the man to save the world, his reservations and constant belief that he isn't capable or not strong enough have been even slowing his progress with developing his own abilities. his lack of confidence keeps him from mastering his own ability of empathic mimicry and understanding. before he can start to master 100's of powers and conquering all those mental triggers he has to overcome his own natural mental flaws.

I agree with almost everything in what you said except for him having to remember how he felt when he got an ability or remember how a person who uses an ability makes him feel. That is a theory that unfortunately has become unofficial "law" on various boards. Peter uses his abilities initally either by instinct or because someone is using it around him. He can also use them when someone tells him that he has the ability to do something. After finding out he has an ability whether through instinct, automatically, or being informed by someone else; then he can use it at will. Think of Claude using the card catalog analogy. No one says you can't check out more than one book at a time, right?

This whole storyline with him having amnesia showed that he didn't need to "feel" anything about the person who had the ability in order to use it. His body reacted to the immediate threat automatically. He didn't need to remember Claire to heal from the gunshot, DL to escape from the ropes, Hiro to go to the future, etc... When he met Adam, Adam told him that he could heal his mind and then he focused on doing it since someone let him know that he had that ability. (A side note: you would think that if Peter had both Adam's and Claire's ability, he would've automatically healed his mind. Maybe the Haitian is more precise in stopping abilities than we originally thought)

Unfortunately, I think that Peter's character is a product of the "time out/everyone is a winner" generation. He probably rarely got any discipline when he did something wrong growing up, never was a competitive (or played on the "we don't keep score because we're all winners" soccer/basketball/flag football team), and basically grew up a wuss. **For the Peter worshippers, I actually don't hate Peter, I just don't like him as much as I used to** Imagine if Nathan had this ability. Here's someone that probably grew up protecting Peter, went to the military, was a prosecuter, etc... He would probably be able to handle his abilities so well that Sylar would want to kiss his feet.

But when training with Claude, peter stated that he need to remember the person and the feeling he recieved to use thier abilities/ "your wrong, it's my attachments to these people that let me use thier abilities. When i was falling i saw that girl claire and remember the feeling i got from her"

The empathic connection allows him to draw out a power easily, without really trying like in season one, but when he uses an ability that requires stronger focus or requires a strong emotion it became hard for him to use that ability. This was why he couldn't control teds power, his emotional trigger was fear and anxiety like ted, and so unlike other powers it was harder for him to control at the time.

His ability, which is empathic mimicry works on 2 points, 1 recording mental triggers from the heroes, and 2 Rearranging his DNA so that he has the powers. Now these powers are hard written into his DNA permenantly, but he cannot use them unless he uses his empathic recall to gain the triggers. Like a file cabinet his accessing these recalled triggers overloads him mentally which causes him to lose control of all his empathich memories(think of picking up multiple stacks of folders and trying to hold them in one hand, its difficult to carry and sometimes they fall out of your hand, this is what happens to peter in a sense). Now whne he lost his memories, he had the powers still in his DNA, but no way to access them without the empathic memory, so like all the heroes he essentially had to develop a mental trigger to which to use his abilities naturally.

which during his amnesiac state resulted in random discharges of powers. He had no faces or memory to place the powers, and like the heroes he absorbed them from he had no control over them after manifesting them. He had no knowledge that comes with time and understanding that his powers are triggered this way. Subconcious triggering is the hardest part of understanding and using these abilities and for peter its amplified by the fact he has many abilities. Fear makes lightning, anger produces strength, paranoia lets you hear thoughts, kindness lets you heal, self preserverance causes TK, you add all these triggers developing in the heat of the moment and when your trying to save the lives of your new friends Kaitlin and her brother coupled with the non understanding that these emotions will trigger your abilities. This is overwhelimg for anyone, and made it very difficult for peter to figure out how it all works.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think that he has to "feel an attachment" to someone to use an ability. Matt said that he couldn't control people when Bob said the he had that ability but he did. I think Peter's comment was just part of an argument with Claude where he may have felt that Claude wanted him to just disconnect from everyone.

As I stated earlier Peter didn't need to remember Claire when he healed from the gunshot or when he healed his memory, he didn't need to remember how Hiro made him feel in order to time travel, he didnt' need to remember about (either Charles or Angela..since we're not sure) to project himself into the future. I honestly think this whole "feeling" stuff that was talked about was just some literary device used to further emphasize that he was considered an empath. Unfortunately, it's taken on a life of it's own with the whole he "needs to feel" law that has been passed down.

I think a cool thing would be if there's a scene where a Claude-like company man/watcher person comes along who knows who Peter has been in contact with (even if Peter doesn't know) and says that he has various abilities and then Peter uses them.

your missing my what i'm saying, All the powers require a mental trigger in some form during thier original manifestation. These triggers forced the heroes to understand thier problems to use thier abilities better over time. When peter aquires an ability via his DNA Reconfigure he needs a trigger to use that power. As an Empath he recalls the people who he got the power from to use thier ability. He basically skips the need to develop his own triggers for the powers. Which is why he began to master them on the training missions with claude, he didn't need to understand what triggered them at that time as he could just assume the trigger from empathic memory of the individual.

When he lost his memories, he naturally developed new triggers to place the powers to, like all the original owners had done when they manifested. thus not needing to remember how he felt when with them at the time. To put in the basic of terms is, he has the DNA of all the powers he has come into contact with, unless he is put into situations that force his mind to reach for a trigger to correspond to those powers is the questions. What would trigger freezing? the longing for snow? desperately wishing for ice in a 124 degree day? what would trigger super hearing? going blind? or just desperate to track someone?

Without the empathic memories Peter is forced to develop these triggers on his own, that's what im trying to say.

What bugs me here is why everyone insists Peter (and Sylar for that matter) are rewriting their DNA ... they (and every other SGS) have the same DNA sequence, what he (and Sylar) copy are epigenetic markers.

That would be really interesting. I've always wanted to see a darker side of Peter.

Great thread.

Regarding Peter's supposed astral projection abilities...

In the opening scene of Truth and Consequences, we see a spectral Peter re-experiencing the events that lead to Cáitlin's capture by the bio-cops. He primarily interacts with the environment vis a vis his picking up of the leaflet proclaiming the date, virus etc. As of his encounter with Adam in Montreal, he is fully cognizant of his past and powers yet all he can do to prevent Cáitlin being carted off is scream her name like an emo kid. He doesn't even move from the spot he's standing in. If he can pick up a leaflet, he can zap the cops, stop time, take out the grid, fly her to safety or a myriad other things to boot. Instead, upon his return, he tells Adam he saw Cáitlin and tried to tell her to get away from those nasty viro-police. Well, no, I'm not having that.

More holes than the Albert Hall.

Poo, poo and triple poo.

I (& I think most people) assumed that was a sort of astral projection, except that he could reel in an object (the notice) of course -- he may be able to do that with Caitlin too -- even if the timeline changes...

You're right. If deff seemed more characteristic of astral projection. Nice observation.

The whole Peter is Superman analogy is kinda lame. Unlike superman there will never ever be a reason for Peter to have to use his brain in order to get out of a bad situation. Why? Because unlike superman, Peter HAS NO WEAKNESSES!

So of course they'll have to dumb his character down. I personally found it hilarious when Adam was untying Victoria Pratt. They might as well have rewritten it to the following:

Peter: What are you doing?
Adam: I'm untying her.
Peter: Why?
Adam: Well, we already know that she'll go psycho if we let her loose. I'm untying her so that I can kill her in self-defense as she comes after us.
Peter: Oh...okay..Durrrrrrr

I just think that Peter being gullible is his learning process. Everybody has to learn who to trust and what to trust, with any friends. With the scenerio given anybody would have believed Adam until someone died. Even in the clip for next week Peter is starting to wonder why Adam is killing people, "did you kill Kaito". So Peter, unless he doesn't think at all, will start checking what people say before reacting to it. Like others have said, Peter should have read his mind or just gone forward and watched what actually happened before giving Adam the vial. That is why Im hoping that Peter and Hiro will switch the vial to test Adam. Even on Smallville, Kara is learning that going head first into a battle is not always the best thing to do.

it's not that hard. we saw him use TK as reflective measures A LOT in the past yet when Victoria rose the gun he couldn't simply knock it away like he did to that irish thug?

he knows what he has, he knows how to use it, he is just too stupid to know when to.

Listen i love peter's character last year i just think the writers ****** him up this year.

Sidebar: "Peter and the Accidental Powers" would be a great name for a band.

My list:

Original
Empathic Power Absorption / Mimicry / Retention

Absorbed
Shown
Enhanced Memory - Sylar: Charlene "Charlie" Andrews
Enhanced Physical Durability + Strength - Nicole "Niki" Sanders
Flight (Levitation) - Nathan Petrelli
Lightning Generation / Manipulation - Elle
Nuclear Radioactivity Generation / Expulsion / Manipulation / Protection - Theodore "Ted" Sprague
Physical Intangibility + Phasing - D.L. (Daniel Lawrence) Hawkins
Physical Invisibility (For Himself + People / Things By Touch) - Claude "Rains"
Precognition (By Painting) - Isaac Mendez
Premonitions (By Dreaming) - ?
Rapid Cellular Regeneration (Instant Limb, Organ, Etc. Healing + Aging Cessation) - Claire Bennet, Adam Monroe (Takezo Kensei)
Space + Time Manipulation (Teleportation + Time Manipulation + Time Travel) - Hiro Nakamura
Telekinesis - Sylar: Brian Davis
Telepathy (Thought Reading + Sending) - Matt Parkman

Not Shown (But Could / Should - Immediate Physical Proximity)
Clairvoyance (Locate + See Anyone By Thought) - Molly Walker
Cold Generation / Manipulation - Sylar: Unknown Victim
Dream Manipulation ("Dreamtime") - ?
Enhanced Hearing - Sylar: Dale Smither
Intuitive Aptitude ("Knows How Things Work") - Sylar
"Liquification" (By Touch) - Sylar: Zane Taylor
Persuasion (By Voice) - Eden McCain
Technopathy - Micah Hawkins
? - Charles Deveaux
? - Angela Petrelli
? - Victoria Pratt
? - Sylar: David
? - Sylar: James Walker
? - Sylar: Unknown Victim

Unknown
"Alchemy" - Robert "Bob" Bishop (Most of the time when Peter was around Bob, he was around The Haitian or was taking the "Haitian pills".)
Illusion Generation / Manipulation - Candice Willmer (Betty) (Since Candice was down in Kirby Plaza taking Sylar away, it's possible Peter was close enough to absorb her power. But it's also possible she got there after Nathan flew Peter away.)
Memory Erasing + Power Suppression - "The Haitian" (We don't know if Peter can even absorb The Haitian's power even though he's used other powers around him before.)


Actually, no...

That said, Peter has absorbed Eden's power in "Collision"...


All we have to do is to look to one quote to prove that Peter did absorb all of Sylar's powers...
Since Peter has absorbed Sylar's stolen telekinesis, we know that "every ability he encountered in Kirby Plaza" also includes all of Sylar's stolen powers. If he didn't absorb them before, he did then and there.

Are you serious? If you're gonna quote me, do it fully..

I mentioned Peter "Kryptonite" was the fact that he is too trusting, Naive, and full of self doubt of any of his abilities, superpowered or his "normal" self...

Of coarse I could have made a comparison to the Silver Surfer (from the comics not the awefull Fantastic Four movie...) The silver Surfer has God-Like power but his trusting and gentle nature stops him from using it corruptly or for personal gain...

Peter will and should be at odds with the fact that he is so "powerfull" but feels so "powerless" and other realizing whqat he doesn't, his power for compassion, self sacrifice, and ability and will to try to do good is a far greater power then any or all the abilities he has... This should be the moral, but it is being done short of weakly at present...

A final comparison could be that Peter is Frodo Baggins from lotr and his "ultimate-power" is a comparison to the one ring that corrupts all that try to use it for good, but Frodo resists as long as he can until ultimate-power claims his soul...