Just wondering what everyone thought of a little theory I have...

As we all know, Peter is so powerful due to his selfless nature and good heart. Now, I think its crossed everyone's mind that at some point we might see Petrelli Jr. turn to the 'Dark Side' so to speak.

However, if he does that, and therefore loses his good nature, might he then lose access to all his powers?

Also, on a similar note, if Sylar was to get his bloody hands on Peter's brain, would he be able to do what Peter can? Surely Sylar doesn't have the emotional capacity to become an Empath..

Any thoughts?

PS. Its my first post, so just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading all your theories, they keep me going through the dark days of no new Heroes

One of the best things about Heroes for me is the Peter/Sylar duality. I think as long as Sylar is his evil, psycho self Peter won't turn to the Dark Side. If they flip reversed it and made Sylar a little sweeter and Peter badass then that could be interesting!

And yes, I think if Sylar chomped on Peter's brain he would get his empath power and not have to kill to accumulate powers any more. Peter might have to be sacrificed for the greater good!

Welcome to 9th Wonders.

The writers said they will "eventually have 2 go there."

I used to think if Peter became sadistic he wouldn't be able to use his ability, but then all the ability he has absorbed are his. He owns them. He may only be stunted from absorbing more abilities (thats his Empathy) but he could probably find a way around that with his IA.

My theory is that empathy is not his skill, it's just what Claude called him because either he was so emotional or he used it as a metaphor(?) because empath means various emotions or in Peter's care carious skills.

BTW, his skill is IMO power mimicry.

I would think at some point they will have a Peter/Sylar swap of good and evil for at least one Volume. I think the end of Volume 1 will be a foreshadowing to either a future Volume(maybe 3) or possible the end of the entire Series.

Near the end of Volume 1 when Peter realizes that he is the one that's going to explode Sylar says, "Turns out you're the villain Peter and I'm the hero."

Would be a nice twist if when the series ends, Peter is the villain and Sylar the hero. Since if Peter turn evil, Sylar might be the only one that can stop him.

I don't really like the idea of Peter become a bad guy. There's been enough focus on him supposedly being the good one with a good heart. And so far he's turned out to be the cause of problems unintentionally. I'd like to see him be the good guy and solve a problem he didn't help start.

ditto.

Last season I would've been all on board this idea but suffering from good hearted!Peter withdrawal in season two made me sort of hesitant towards the idea. In episodes like Five Years Gone, where we see a darker side of Peter have always been huge favourites of mine but if they'd turn Peter "evil" anytime soon, I feel that it would be soon. It would be interesting to see, in the future, especially if the parallels between Peter and Sylar are shown at the same time and that Sylar somehow became the "good guy" (not good in the sense of s1!Peter but you know... fighting for the good team - sort of). Peter turning evil has a little bit of Anakin Skywalker feeling to it, I think, which would be great to see, especially if it happens gradually.

(I hope this post made sense because I'm not sure if it did)

I hope they make a better job of it than they did with Anakin Skywalker!

I agree! We talk about Peter being naive!

This is probably not the place to discuss it, but the whole Anakin turning into Darth Vader thing was so badly done and so disappointing! The prequels generally were woeful.

But we are here to talk about Peter. I think the whole point of Peter's character is that he can't be evil. He's selfless and empathic - the anti-Sylar. It would take a major leap of faith in the Heroes writers on my part to belive Peter would go evil.

I would doubt weould ever get an evil Peter, but a Peter that doesn't care is more likely

Maybe morally grey?

more likely a Peter trying not to care.

Peter was a victim of Darth Kensei's manipulation, using Nathan to gain Peter's trust to gain access to Shanti Virus 138, which made him attack those he knew, fortunately he hasn't killed yet (although he was close to doing that in "Kindred"). Peter had a more-or-less stable upbringing, other than the fact that he and his father didn't get on with each other.

Darth Sylar has made alterations to his DNA by unknown means, Noah Bennet said "I think you're insane. I think the infusion of so many alterations to your DNA has corrupted your mind. All this power is degrading you." Based on numerous references, pressure from his family may have lead to an unbalancing of his mind, eating the part of the brain that gives him the ability of others (killing them in the process) has further unhinged his mind.

A sin is a sin, and indifference is one. He'll fall, mark my words. All heros fall.

"Show me a hero and I'll show you a tragedy." (don't know whose quote that is, but it ain't mine so...)

I'm totally ok with Peter turning into an ego-tripping, God complex having, chip on his shoulder baddie alla Adam...As long as Claude suddenly becomes visable and knocks him out. Right in the middle of Peter doing his best Dr. Evil monologue and Nathan looking all worried, Claude suddenly appears and knocks him out and then offers Nathan a beer.

VenusianEyes,

Funny!

Creator

Maybe, instead of an evil Peter, we would just get a badass Peter, like in Five Years Gone. In that episode, Peter wasn't evil. He still wanted to help the world, he just wasn't as... empathic, I guess. He was still a hero. He still loved his brother, and cared about what happened, and fought Sylar so I reckon we'll get that version of Peter back.

And I agree with KevinFTW on the whole power mimicry thing. Empathy is just.. complicated.

BrainSalad,

I basicly agree with you (and KevinFTW). I've previously suggested (another topic discussion about Peter's godsend) that in the case of Peter being labeled an "empath" that it was an expression referring to his ability to absorb powers (has power acquisition strategy) and was not tied to his emotional propensities. As a matter of fact, Claude found it ironically interesting that Peter, the nurse, was an empath, suggesting that there is no natural connection between empaths an the emotions of the donors. For Peter, the tutoring strategy that Claude choose was specifically designed to work with Peter, because he's has these EMO tendencies. Claude, training another empath would more than likely choose a different strategy, tailored for that person, in having them learn to access their empathically absorbed godsends.

Also, I can see Peter becoming increasingly 'detached', much like F_Peter had become in 5 Years Gone. It was the knowledge that his dear old friend Hiro needed his help that that brought him back into the fray.

Creator

Does Peter's mimicry only work when he has a strong emotional connection with them, Claude said that right?

So how does Peter with amesia use TK and phasing?

How did he manage to use any of his powers when he had the amnesia if he couldn't even remember he was special? I was having this exact discussion in another thread.

The easy answer is that he acquired Sylar's intuitive aptitude and now he's able to control the abilities.

The more complicated answer has to do with his empathy. If his emotions are running wild then so are his powers. When he was scared he automatically produced electricity. Or when he wanted to find out who he was, he accidentally sent himself and Caitlin into the future. But once he makes an emotional connection to the person who had the original ability, he's more in control.

But is Sylar's IA a passive if not then how did he use IA?

Also as Creator said Future Peter was more detached from everyone but he seemed to have more control then present Peter.

KevinFTW,

No. Claude never said that. There is no need for an Empath to have an emotional connection to the godsend donor in order for them to access the godsend. Claude, realizing the irony that the empathic Peter was an Empath, employed Peter's nature in teaching him how to access his powers until such time that he learned to access them automatically (unconsciously, as he now does).

This is the point of my original post herein earlier today. Empath = power absorber. Peter's strategy for acquiring powers and then using them is called empatic mimicry for this reason. Be well.

Creator

I disagree. I don't think his power is completely w/out a connection to empathy. What ability someone manifests depends on their personality and Peter's personality seems to have a high intraspective intelligence and this is reflected in his ability. I don't think he needs to make an emotional connection to the original power owner, but the very fact that he picks up energy from others (in more than one sense) is because of his intraspective intelligence.

Ugh. So tired. Hoped that made sense...

edit: I don't think Claude thought an Empath being a nurse was ironic. I thought he was being sarcastic, and just demeaning empaths and male nurses.

VenusianEyes,

Thank you for replying. But, I'm confused. What exactly do you disagree with? You have introduced ideas in your rebuttal to my post that I don't believe I discussed and therefore don't own. There are essentially four statements. First, I still think that Claude found it ironic that the Empath was empathic by nature. We can agree to disagree here. So, which of the remaining three do you disagree with:

• There is no need for an Empath to have an emotional connection to the godsend donor in order for them to access (i.e., retrieve) the godsend [NOTE: He doesn't even need to remember them.] Or, do you disagree with:
• Claude employed Peter's nature in teaching him how to access his powers until such time that he learned to access them automatically (unconsciously, as he now does). Or, do you disagree with:
• Empath = power absorber. Peter's strategy for acquiring powers and then using them is called empathic mimicry for this reason. [NOTE:where power absorber = "a sponge" (per Mohinder). I only address how he receives the power initially.]

Could you be more specific. Please address the statements I actually made (nothing more...nothing less).
Then I can respond. Thank you for your thoughts.

Creator

I would think that if Peter was to become the villian, it would be out of fear like Noah's. Everybody must be wondering how they could stop Peter if he got too powerful or learned to use the ones he has now better. After a while they might have to team up to go against Peter before it is too late. Fear makes people do things that you normally wouldn't think of, even killing your own child. If the Company, or Noah, thought that Peter was a big liability then they would take him out with everything they could. Peters limitation is his kind heart which makes him not want to hurt others, even if he doesn't know them. Sooner or later somebody is going to start wondering about all that Peter can do and want to stop him.

Good example it overseas. Some countries we fear what that would do with the technology not that they have to technology. A Nuclear is a useful tool just as long as a madman, in our eyes, doesn't have control over it. There is nothing you can say after the madman uses it to distroy someplace, just retaliate.

This is an interesting point on which I'd like to expand. I think Peter uses his 'godsend' in two ways; reflexively and actively.

In order for him to use them reflexively (to defend himself for example) he does not need to remember the original donor. However, if he wants to use them actively, that is to do something with them other than just defend himself, he must remember the original owner of the abilities.

This is what Claude taught him to do - to control them and make the powers work for him by channeling the emotions of the original person.

ShinyHunter,

"Claude employed Peter's nature in teaching him how to access his powers until such time that he learned to access them automatically (unconsciously, as he now does)." I believe that the need to employ an emotional attachment, by way of remembering the donor, to access the associated godsend was analogous to Peter's use of 'training wheels'.

Creator

I'm confused as to what sort of point you are trying to make. Maybe we have a different way of understanding what is meant by 'automatically' in this situation. To me it's synonymous with a reflex and therefore uncontrollable. Peter wanted to be free of the ropes so his body unconsciously accessed the phasing ability for him to get out. He wanted to know what his future held for him and he unconsciously traveled to the future. Peter wasn't choosing to use the abilities, they occurred automatically in accordance with what he was feeling.

Once he remembered his past, he actively accessed his powers. He wanted to open the vault door using the TK from Sylar and he opened the door using TK. He wanted to destroy the virus using radioactivity and he did just that.

All I'm saying is that he can choose to use the ability he wants at the time he wants only if he remembers/is emotionally connected to the original donor. Otherwise he is still able to access the powers themselves but has no control over them.

ShinyHunter,

In the process learning of a new skill, we go through a four-step process:

1. Unconscious incompetency
2. Conscious incompetency
3. Conscious competency and
4. Unconscious competency

• Peter isn't aware that he has a particular power = unconscious incompetency
• Peter becomes aware of a power but is unable to access it at will = conscious incompetency
• Peter is aware of his power and develops a strategy for accessing it = conscious competency
• Peter has achieved mastery over his acquired power and no longer needs to make use of a conscious access strategy = unconscious competency

It is at the third stage that we have the 'training wheels' analogy. It is where Claude helps Peter develop the access strategy of remembering the power's donor so that Peter might call up the power.

It is at the fourth stage that Peter loses the training wheels and develops complete control or mastery (unconscious competency) of his power (and no longer needs to remember the original donor).

I hope this makes clear what I'm saying when I say unconscious competency (or automatic control).

Creator

p.s. Your illustrations are examples of unconscious incompetency for at that moment Peter isn't aware that he has the power (so, you are correct!).

Lets make this plain and simple. I agree with Creator. I really doubt that Peter was thinking about Elle or Sylar as he was shooting lightening at those guards or as he shocked Hiro's sword when he had it to his neck or when he slid Hiro up the wall or when he had the Irish guy pinned up against the wall or when he was opening the very large safe door. That sentence was a run on correct? Exactly! You dont have to make it more than it is people. Its been shown to us and very clearly that I might add is that Peter DOES NOT have to remember anyone to use a power.

Beez

Beez,

Just ask my friends. For me, that was plain and simple !

Creator

Oh ok, cool I get it. Basically it doesn't matter that he never had an emotional connection with DL (or probably never saw him at the Plaza) because at this point he has mastered his ability and is able to access it.

Although there was a point in s2 when he still didn't remember who he was, knew he had power but had no idea how to access it. So how does that fit into your explanation?

I think Peter goes through all 4 stages for every power he gets.

1) He still hasn't used Sylars Melt object power.
2) He phased out of the ropes by instinc, not because he know how to do it.
3) I think he is learning how to use time travel.
4) He is quite proficient with TK and Teds power.

I disagree with being an empath means being a powerabsorber. Those are 2 completely different things. An empath means (from what I always was taught) someone who has a broader sensitivity to feelings. Like feeling what other people feel. In my eyes it has nothing to do with power absorbing. But that's just me.
Empathy would be a nice power they could use in the show though. Like manipulating someone's feelings but also sensing someone's feelings. Like Empath from Marvel.

My thoughts...

Peter's ability to "empathically mimic" is separate from his ability to emotionally empathize with people.

Once an absorbed power is absorbed, it's retained forever since it actually alters his very genetic structure, which can't be undone. Therefore, even if he "turned evil," he would still have those powers.

However, I do think his being emotionally empathic is related to his empathic mimicry. It's been stated numerous times that the powers they develop are based on their environment, life situations, personality, psychology, etc. So I think that the empathic mimicry stems from him being an emotionally empathic person. But I don't think that they are one and the same and that his ability to mimic his absorbed and retained powers wouldn't necessarily just disappear.

Ronald,

Peter does realize that he has invisibility and so he starts at conscious incompetency. The same was true with Ted.

He recognized during his encounter with Sylar in Kirby Plaza, that he immediately had Niki's super-strength upon witnessing her use it. So with super-strength, he started at conscious competency.

Thank you, my friend, for your comments and for helping to advance these discussions.

Creator

After Peter gains his abilities there wired into his DNA and a part of him. Meaning just like when something is thrown at you, you subconsciously try to stop it from hitting you. With Peter his body knows it has abilities and used them to defend him even if Peter didn't know he had them.

This topic reminds me of another series I enjoyed called "Highlander the Series". Duncan (the Highlander) was basically 'good' like Peter. He absorbed powers of other immortals like himself, most of whom were 'evil' by nature. After a time, he absorbed so many evil immortals' powers that he himself became evil. I could see this becoming a possibility for Peter. That is, should Peter absorbed some unstable power, he might have a change in persona and become evil as a result.

Another scenario that comes to mind would be if Peter becomes hated and hunted and has all his loved ones hunted down, one-by-one. His resultant fear and hatred might change him and make him evil.

Creator

Both possibilities are intriguing. Seeing Peter going over to the dark side would be interesting, but if it happens, there needs to be some sort of redemption at the end of the day. Peter is so much Sylar's direct counterpart that he would be superfluous as a villain, in storyline terms.



qft. This is also underlined by the fact that he was able to access his powers while he was without his memory, without a sense of self. He even wondered at one point whether he was an evil person.

If he turned evil and lost his powers because of it, it'd probably result in a rather strange quest to reacquire his powers, which could only happen if he turned good again... that sounds like a rather "mechanical" storyline.

We have read that his empathic mimicry is "more about his heart than his memory". So perhaps him as an emotionally empathic person will play a role in him "turning evil".

Or perhaps even just somewhat apathetic and/or cynical. Sometimes, "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

We've seen that - in "Five Years Gone". I got the impression that he had been somewhat apathetic prior to Present-Hiro's appearance. In the episode, Peter was the epitaph of a desillusioned dreamer. He'd seen all he'd hoped for turn to ruin - through his own fault - and sought refuge in his own bitterness.

Which is the main reason why I hope we'll never see a truly "badass" Peter. If Peter is to become badass, failure comes first.

He unintentionally became a mass-murderer in that timeline and those deaths became a focal point for persecution of others of his kind, that sort of thing can have a strong negative impact on him.

Count me in with those who don't want to see Evil!Peter or Dark!Peter, or at least not yet.

I'm not against the idea in principle. It's just that, until now, we have been seeing Peter trying to gain control of his powers over and over again, and failing for the most part. I really missed seeing the old, empathic, sweet-hearted Peter when he had amnesia in Season 2 (though I was glad to see him back in 2.07, 2.08, and 2.11), and I don't want to lose him again when Season 3 rolls around.

If they do want to do Dark Peter, I think they should wait. Have him build up to a high, in control of his powers, helping to save the world, doing good, and then take him for a fall. Don't just knock him down further and further each time. It's painful, and not in a good way.

Then again it's far easier for Peter Petrelli to behave like a barbarian, than it is for Darth Sylar to get a "clean bill of health" with the psychoanalyst.