...and since he is able to 'persuade' telepathically, do you think he'd eventually become powerful enough to control Sylar? Or would Sylar's IA withstand Matt's new found power? Is Matt's 'persuasion' as powerful as, as irresistible as Eden's was? What do you think?

I think it's less powerful, because it's their own thoughts, and they can fight against their thoughts.

Say if Matt put the thought in his mind to kill himself. Sylar would be all "Wtf, I don't wanna do that," and not do that.
That's the impression I'm under.

kitty,

Maury was so powerful that he struck fear into the hearts of the other founders. Bob knew that they were doomed without Matt's help. Bob saw Maury as otherwise unstoppable. But, Matt upped his game and became more than he was, enabling him to take down his very powerful father.

Is he powerful enough to stop Sylar...to trap Sylar in a living nightmare? I wonder...

Creator

Matt's now one of the strongest characters. He's got persuasion AND MORE. He can read people's thoughts, control their senses, put images in their heads. The possibilities are endless!
Going by this, Matt surely has the power to stop/control Sylar. Unless Sylar gets some new tricks up his sleeve, which he probably will. And somehow I can't see Matt bringing Sylar down. Leave it to Peter

I don't think he would be powerful enough to control Sylar.

He has this way of being unaffected by certain peoples powers which is probably down to his IA.

Eden tried to make him kill himself and he completely ignored her and carried on talking, whereas Eden told her mother (or father can't remember which) to drop dead and she did. Which means it must be Sylars power.

I don't think Matt would be powerful enough because when he tried to make Peter do what he wanted, it didn't work. I think that that was because of Peter using Sylars IA, but even if it wasn't, Peter isn't all that great with his powers compared to how Sylar was.

I believe that if Matt put Sylar in a nightmare, he'd see straight through it and get out somehow.

Sidious,

Sylar outsmarted Eden by acting before she could give him the gun to kill himself with [go back and watch the scene carefully]. Peter has Matt's power. That's why he always been able to resist Matt.

Creator

She told him to kill himself with her gun and then he TK'd her through the window and talked about how he was going to take her power.

When she told Matt to go and eat donuts he didn't do anything else before he went for the donuts, he just went.

So if she told Sylar that she was going to give him the gun then Sylar should've waited until he had the gun before he did anything else.

What she actually said was: "I'm gonna take this gun, and I'm gonna put it in that slot. You're gonna take it, and you're gonna blow your brains out."

So he could have got round it because the order he was supposed to follow would only take place after she put the gun in the slot. He grabbed her before she could do that and so thwarted her persuasion.

I'm more interested in this on/off switch the Company seems to have with regards to Heroes using their powers in their facilities. It's not the Haitian. It must be a dampener in the cells.

If you look edens scenes exactly, this was the first time she didn't said "you will do that", "you want that", "you have to do this". I every other scene she used her power she immediately said "you want this", "you want that".

That might be a hint why her power didn't worked. However, it could be something else that is left unexplained too like a dampener or similar as some mentioned but I highly doubt it because Sylar wouldn't be able to use his TK if this would be the case. I always saw it as a big plothole and a excuse for a fast erasing of a good character in a "heroic way".

With regards the dampener, I've heard a theory that Eden switched it off when she went to confront Sylar so that her power would work on him. Thus his TK also worked.

I'd never thought of that but it would explain it perfectly.

They should've shown it in the show though to stop people like us from questioning it.

Except why they don't somehow make that contraption into a weapon against Heroes.



Where would be the fun in that!

There is so much I would like them to take the time to explain: How did Shanti, Molly and the Haitian contract the Shanti virus? What powers does Sylar have? How do the Haitian's powers actually work? Is Claire's power the same as Adam's?

MrsGoogly,

The damping field would apply only inside the cell. Thus, turning it off would not have served Eden's purpose. Her power was independent of the cell's damping field, therefore. If she was entering the cell, confronting Sylar directly, that (turning off the cell's power damping field) might have come into play, but that is not what happened.

Sylar somehow defeated the damping field, just like he defeated the drugging by Mohinder. As a result, he had full command of his powers while still under the influence of the so called 'damping field'. He lay in wait for the opportunity to snare an unsuspecting, overly confident Eden. Had she just said one word, "DIE!", Sylar would have been defeated. She was careless, believing (rightfully so) that her tactic would work. A fully functioning Sylar simply outwitted her.

Creator

Yeah, personally I think Sylar is just powerful enough to beat whatever was stopping him from using his powers. He uses his powers loads in that cell - making himself seem dead, TKing Bennet, grabbing Eden.. I think he's just more powerful than your average super-human.

BrainSalad,

That's what I imply by "Sylar somehow defeated the damping field, just like he defeated the drugging by Mohinder". Perhaps he's acquired a 'godsend' that provides him a special resistance or resiliency (adaptive response ability) that we haven't been made aware of, but he's making use of.

Creator

Well his original gift was intuitive aptitude. I'm guessing he's just really good at finding loop holes and ways around certain obstacles that others just don't see.

ShinyHunter,

This is assuming that his IA is unaffected by or resistant the power damping field or the drugging attempt by Mohinder. Perhaps he acquired yet another power that permits this resistance, is my point. Although the IA may come with this protective mechanism.

Creator

I would say Sylar could defeat it because it seems possiable simply by pure will power. And will power is something Sylar has in spades.

Well we know that power surges under intense emotion (Ted) and Sylar was incredibly angry when he found that Eden knew the whole time he had a power but never said... which is why I think he managed to use his Telekinesis to break through the window...

That broke the suggestion that she was going to put the gun in the slot... so its why he didn't kill himself. She could have said "Why don't you just die..." which might have had more effect, as we've seen from the GN where she stopped her mother's heart that way...

But as for Matt, I think its right in assuming he can only put thoughts into someone's head when they don't suspect it'll happen, if they have their own thoughts overriding it, they can resist. Angela definitely was resisting his power which caused her nose to bleed... I think it only works best when they don't know it'll happen

I think if Matt was able to trap Sylar into some dream.. Sylar WOULD be able to get out of it. I really think his IA would help him there. Both Matt and Nathan were able to figure it out after a while when Maury used it on them..

lauryn,

I would agree with you. Still, trapping him temporarily, even if only briefly, might buy Matt the required time and opportunity to capture or kill Sylar. This spells defeat! Thank you!

Creator

I'm kind of inclined towards this position. I think that in a prolonged battle, Sylar could probably kill Matt just because Sylar has twice the offensive powers Matt does. However, with Matt getting more and more advanced at such an exponential rate (arguably more than any other character), all he really would need is a matter of seconds to put Sylar into a nightmare coma. Maybe using thoughts of his mother or a nightmare where Sylar was powerless, flipping hamburgers or something even less special than fixing watches. Something totally mundane. In that one second, it'd be easy to just walk up to him and put a couple bullets in his head or whack it off. I think it's kind of matter who pulls the first move and what that move is.

As for the cell, the idea of a dampening field actually makes a lot of sense, especially because of the idea that Claire's blood creates a miracle cure, so why wouldn't they be able to synthesize Haitian Drywall? I think it was Eden's fault she died, not through Sylar willpower or ability. He just got lucky. He probably turned it off after he killed the doctor. He's not exactly helpless when he's powerless, so killing him wouldn't be an issue and with IA (he killed Candice with a coffee cup), neither would be figuring out how to shut down the cell once he had the means of escape.

If Matt’s smart, it would be easy for him to kill Sylar.



Sylar really only relies on TK to stop and kill his victims. If he did not know what Matt’s power was, then this is the method he would use. And Matt’s mind would not be paralysed by TK. So he just stands there looking frozen, but then works his nightmare magic on Sylar before Sylar knows what’s happening.



What might even it out a bit more is that Sylar is very intelligent and Matt is … er … not. So Matt would probably not take back up, despite the fact he knows what Sylar could do, and he might be cocky and taunt Sylar for a while. Whereas Sylar would probably figure out what was happening to him.

I have to agree with most people on here. Matt does have the potential to capture Sylar. His power is limitless. But He is not as smart or savy as Sylar. So My answer is yes I think he could but No I think he would fail do to lack of preperation and the smarts to keep him detained after Sylar discovers what is happening!

Yeah, I'd have to agree XD.
Just imagine if Sylar had Matt pinned to the wall. Sure, he couldn't move his arms and legs, but he's always using his mind.
Unless Sylar finds someone telepathic and kills them before they've learned to put thoughts into people's heads, I don't think he'd be able to defeat Matt.
I still don't think Matt is going to kill Sylar, but for the purpose of the conversation, he probably could.

MrsGoogly,

Excellent observation! Thank you!

Creator

Well, I don't think Matt needs to smart. It'd help, but he most of all needs to be fast. Least risk. While I don't think the show's been written in the style where he'll kill Sylar, I think it could happen under the following circumstances: Molly is one of Sylar's biggest threats. It's likely he knows it, but she has such an attractive power, he wouldn't have killed her at her home when he had little time and was powerless. If he came back and threatened her, I think Matt would kill him in an instant. He loves Molly and he's very protective of her.

No way. he was only controlled by eden when she first used her powers on him. the second time it did not work. so neither would matt.

sylargray,

Eden's power never failed her; her underlying strategy, while sound, was tactically flawed when she addressed Sylar at the Company facility [as explained very well, several times over two season's].

Matt's power could confuse Sylar, even if only temporarily, and could lead to victory for Matt.

Creator

I remember reading and hearing about a deleted scene on the Season 1 DVD in which Eden distracts The Haitian standing guard by Sylar's cell. When he walks out of range, Eden walks in and begins her fated conversation with Sylar...

By that logic, it sounds like the ability dampener was probably those medicines and The Haitian rather than a machine of some kind.

Roogle,

The cell itself was equipped with a "power-dampening" field generator. The Haitian's presence would have protected Eden, but she needed him out of the way so that she could attempt killing Sylar. But, her verbal mishap resulted in her own demise.

Creator

This hasn't been confirmed anywhere so you're just jumping to conlusions. You shouldn't make comments like that unless you can back them up.

Sidious,

Go back, re-watch the episode. Last season (as BP) I made this astute observation. Now, knowing what to look for, you can to. If after having done this you still need another authority, I'll provide it. No problem. But, I'll allow you to save face...first.

Creator

I was wondering why Matt couldn't just put Sylar in a dream world where he's doing the same thing he is doing now. Having him in a normal life scenario would be easy to find out. But, if you have Sylar in a dream world where he is hunting and killing other people with powers, then wouldn't that be a lot harder for Sylar to figure out what has happened and escape from. Maybe even have him go up the political ladder until he becomes president.

Molly couldn't get out of her dream world because she thought the door was locked and she couldn't get out. Sylar already knows there isn't a door that could stop him. So, putting him in a room with locked door would be easy for him to get out. Same as having him work at McDonalds. He already knows he can do better than that. Remember Nathans dream world was about what Peter said would happen if Sylar wasn't stopped and it was Matt who got him and Molly out. Just make it something that you believe and it would be extremely hard for you to disbeleve what is happening around you.

So, Matt could imprison Sylar just like he imprisoned his father.

Ronald,

This is an excellent solution! I like it. I wonder how long it would take Sylar to figure out that he's in a dream world? Regardless, it's brilliant! It would provide the time and opportunity to take Sylar down, and that's the point.

Good work. Thank you, Ronald, for advancing the topic.

Creator

Show me the evidence and I'll believe you. But it wasn't confirmed in the show. For all we know, Sylar was on the "Haitian Pills"

Sidious,

Your own rational inquiry should be enough 'authority' for you, even as mine is for me. Simply re-watch the episode, taking into account that Eden makes her mistake in the way she delivers her command. She starts off by telling Sylar that she is going to past him the gun and that once he takes it he's to kill himself with it. The mistake was in telling him what she was going to do prior to what he had to do. Plus, Sylar had been playing possum, lying in wait for his opportunity to snare an unsuspecting Eden. She could have simply said "Die!" and been done with it. She got elaborate and got got!

http://heroeswiki.com/Persuasion Enjoy.

Creator

If you re-read my post you'll notice I'm not refering to what Eden said but what you said a power dampening field.

Please don't tell me to "simply re-watch the episode" because it comes across as arrogant and I've already watched every episode of the first season 4 or 5 times.

Sidious,

I have re-read your post. I apologize for my part in any misunderstanding. It was not my intent to come across as arrogant. And, to be honest, that's how I had interpreted your post to me, quite frankly.

In my original post I put forth two ideas, one about the field dampening cell and one about the Eden verbal command mishap. I didn't originally see your post as being directed specifically at either, as such, it came across as ambiguous to me. But, I should have asked for clarification and I didn't. So, my bad, I owe you an apology for not clearing that up before responding. Forgive me. In hindsight, you are right...I was wrong!

Now, to answer your question (and if my memory serves me right), prior to Eden's mishap in the "Fallout" episode (after Sylar was captured and incarcerated), Noah tells Sylar (referring to him as "Gabriel") that his powers will not work in his cell (because, it's equipped with a power dampening field). He, HRG, also protests to a unseen superior that Sylar is too dangerous to keep alive. Moreover, he warns Eden to stay clear of Sylar (which as we know, she does not).

I think this is what you were looking for. Thank you for your patience.

http://heroeswiki.com/Sylar%27s_cell

Creator

I'm sorry if I came across as arrogant I didn't mean to

Alas Sidious, we are both only human. I am blessed to be in communication with you.

Creator

I was thinking, say he was on the haitian pill or shot. Some people get over the pill or shot a lot faster than others when it comes to everyday ill's. If Sylar was in a dampening room then maybe he just adapted to it without anybody noticing.

Ronald,

I don't believe that Sylar was ever without his powers while in the cell. I think that only the Haitian was able to deny him access to his power and that otherwise, while incarcerated, Sylar played possum, awaiting a chance for a surprise attack which would have netted him yet another magnificent godsend. The cell became Sylar's 'web'. And Eden was his 'fly'.

Now, back on topic, I believe that Matt is motivated to take Sylar down. He was almost killed by Sylar in Kirby Plaza and knows that Sylar 'the psychopathic' godsend vampiring HEB killer hunts his precious Molly.

Moreover, Matt has now achieved a new level of mastery with his 'gift' and has offensive capabilities he did not have the last time they engaged. I look for Matt to want to take Sylar down. And he just may have the motivation and weapons to do it!

Creator

It is possible, the vocal persuasion of Sarah Ellis/Eden McCain didn't work that well as the command was complex and Darth Sylar had a strong will (demonstrated by his capability to mentally resist the effects of Maya's posion which would make most others collapse quickly).

With the Telepathic Persuasion of Matt Parkman, it could work if Darth Sylar doesn't see him coming, especially if he uses something simple like "you feel tired, you must sleep", it would work better if two send that at the same time, so if Peter and Matt send that, Darth Sylar will be out cold in seconds.

RotanevSitnem,

Excellent! Yes, you definitely get it! Matt could also trap Sylar in a nightmare. Of course, Sylar's worst nightmare is one where he's powerless. All Matt requires is a momentary distraction, just enough time to blow Sylar away!

Great post, RotanevSitnem. Thanks for advancing the topic.

Creator

It would probably depend on who surprised who.

Though, I wonder what would happen to a person if Matt simply screamed into their mind.

That would be a big problem. Does Matt have to be in the same room to effect somebody or even in the same building. If Matt needs to be that close then Sylars hearing would have him at a great advantage. Sylar is quite fast and Matt would need to be far enough away so that he could effect Sylar before Sylar gets to him with his TK or any other power.

If Matt truly has his father's power then he could be miles away and effect Sylar. Or does the long-term thing only work on Molly?

I think that can only happen with Molly (or someone with the same ability like Peter)

I think that when she looks for someone she makes a kind of psychic bond with them so people with Matt/Maury's power are aware of them.

I guess if Matt or Maury could do that to anyone there really would be no Heroes, and Maury would have taken over the world by now!