First, Obama fails me on FISA, then I may have to find a new job, and now Angela and Sylar?

Its not been a good week for me.

Angela making mommy noises to Sylar creeps me out.

It really makes me think evil is winning and democracy and freedom are doomed.

Bad man near mommy! Mommy near Badman! Which one is worse? It has me sucking my thumb and rocking back and forth.

(Aside to Mods: This shouldn't go in Spoilers because its on the official web site playing over and over again.)

I suppose Angela means to put a leash on Sylar and hand him over to HRG sending him to go sic the other Villians.

Why does it makes my stomach hurt? Its all very unsettling.

I mean Angela, whom Nathan rightly views askance, at very least doesn't want mega monsters running loose but isn't Sylar one of them, how does she plan on controlling him?

What is she up to? And how will Sylar eventually slip his "leash"? What do you guys think?

Here's a thing that caused some consternation in the New Promos thread.

What if Peter is Sylar's Father and that's why Angela is so protective of Sylar. Maybe he's future Peter's or alternate Peter's son?

And maybe Angela had hand in allowing Sylar and Maya to cross each other's path?

For what purpose?

Possibly Great Grandchildren.

Angela is not immortal like Adam.

And if she thinks Adam is so dangerous to humanity that she wants to make sure there are people to oppose him in the future, like Claire.

But what other reasons might Angela be so protective and demonstrative of Sylar?

She's her son?

But isn't Sylar the same age as Peter?

I saw some fans were unsure if that was even Sylar on the table. But as Angela used the word "special" - Sylar's favorite word - I'm 100% certain it's him. I mean, Ted's dead, so that's not Ted.

Anyways, maybe Sylar is Angela's son out of wedlock. No one ever said she was faithful to old man Petrelli. -shrug- Who knows? Angela Petrelli always gave me the creeps, anyways, so who know what she's got up her sleeve concerning Sylar?

I find it funny Angela Petrelli gives a Sylar fan the creeps.

First of all I don't think that he is her son and secondly to be honest, I don't want him to be her son.

On the other hand if you think through it, why should she waste her special son (Peter) to get down the villains and put him into danger that might cost his life if there is a villain (Sylar) that is "special" as well?

This way the villains kill each other and whats left gets either exterminated or put under custody by the company while angela and her sons are safe and sound without getting their hands dirty.

If I had to choose in her place I would do exactly the same.

You have to be admit its creepy when the MOTHER of the series main Hero is seen cooing over her son's main antagonist and would be murderer.

Funny, I always said Sylar and Angela would be perfect together. And I don't mean like that, but as a team. Mainly because Angela's personality could be one that Sylar either buckles to or becomes increasingly resentful towards. I would bet he would buckle under it though. An over bearing mother figure, only one who will satiate his hunger for praise? He'd probably be at her beck and call if she had willed it a little sooner...

Personally, I'd rather just see Sylar kill Angela...



but I guess they would make a good team.

I would agree that it would make sense to send a murderer to kill murderers if you're Angela Petrelli. But why would she be "cooing" over him? Also how is she going control Sylar?

By using Mohinder maybe??


XD

I suspect the questions answer each other.

What is the one thing Gabriel Gray was never told? He was told, time and again, that he could be special, that he could be more. By his mother, possibly by his father (although we don't know, because we never met GG Senior) and even by Chandra Suresh (who I still hold partly responsible for the emergence of Sylar As Serial Killer, although that's another story.)

Now, Angela tells him not that he can become Special, but that he already is. If she can make him believe that she believes that, he'll move mountains for her.

Why would he believe her or care what she said?

Is she going to say,

"Hello, Sylar or Gabriel (whichever she thinks will work) I'm Peter's mother and I think you're special."?

or "Hello, I'm your grandmother, your REAL mother, your Aunt, your Father Luke..."

I think she's going to claim some kinship (and it could be a lie) but then why would he care?

It didn't stop him from killing his mother?

And if he knew she was Peter's mother, wouldn't he want to kill her immediately?

I hope we get some very witty, snarky dialogue out of the exchange. I think Sylar is somewhat over "accept me as I am, Mommy" or tell me, "I'm a very special boy." I think he's well beyond needing praise.

I think if she says, "I'm your REAL mother." And tells him he's a Petrelli not just another "borough brat." That might have some cache with him. After all they are an upper East side family.

Some theories on this alliance

--Maybe Sylar's father was an HEB and Angela & the Company knew about him. This is also probably the reason Virginia was always pushing Gabriel to be "special". She holds information about his father that he wants which is probably why they appeared allied in the first place.

--Sylar just wants more power. She probably sent Sylar out to find the other villains that the Company had released with an added bonus: "Sylar, you have my permission to kill them and take their powers."

The company is famous for taking what you want to hear and using it to manipulate you.

Angela to Peter

Linderman and Angela to Nathan

Linderman to Micha

Adam to Peter

Bob to Niki

Bob and Elle to Mohinder.

Thompson to Mohinder.

Even Bennet tried it on Mohinder and kinda on Issac.

And the biggest of them all: Adam to the elders.

"He told us that we belonged together, that together we could change the world"

I don't know what Angela has up her sleeve, but the number one thing is he's tied up and has drugs being pumped up his nose - Angela has the upper hand.

And its not like she hasn't played people before. And its not like the trailers haven't played us before.

I just feel there is something more interesting afoot than I'm your long lost mommy - its just oh, god -- bad.

I do however agree, she knows who his real parents are - and perhaps one of the reason the company kept him a live, although I do think it also had to do with tha fact that he could have been the bomb. But I digress, I know many people don't read the comic the way I do, but I think its pretty clear. Timeline number one :Claire dies, Sylar bomb. Claire lives, Peter bomb.

and does this really belong in a normal thread or are trailers not spoilers.

I think that since it's a trailer and is out in the open, that it doesn't qualify as a spoiler.

Litteraly lol




I don't think she has to claim any kinship. Sylar respects true power. Bennet was a regular human, so Sylar looked down at him. We are all confident that Angela DOES has a power. If a very skilled powered person aproaches him the right way, if they say "Sylar, I appreciate what you are and what you can do."...If they then pose a plan to him, like "Yo, I need you to take down this and this and this guy, cause they are bad, and if they are gone you wont have any evil competiton... And why don't you take their powers while you are at it? You earned it kid."

If someone said something like that, he just might be inclined to listen. It would make life EASIER for Sylar if he follows what Angela wanted, at least at first, rather then fighting her. Unless you are like, Dr. Doom and have endless resources, you really don't want to be a villain who has EVERYONE and their mother (Lol no pun intended) chasing after you. It would be a win win situation for them, and we all know Sylar for the sly dog he is. He'll know an opportunity when he sees one, and if that isn't enough that old habbit for seeking approval will come back to the surface and lead the way.

He wont be doing it because he OWES her something, he would do it because it benefits him and because she can provide what he has been looking for this whole time.

And as for the cooing...I mean, I think we see two sides of Angela at war. The cool and collected side that knows buisness is buisness, who would help a man who killed one of her sons once, and the loving mother side, who wouldn't want to se that monster free. But guess which side always wins out.



If she said that he would probably give her a raised eyebrow and be like "Umm I'm pretty sure you;re not..."

No, I don't think he is going to OUTWARDLY hunt for her praise, Angela never knew him as he was so there is nothing to revert back to, and it isn't neccesarily a mommy praise he wants, but someone substantial to praise him. I mean the guy had to become president before he felt complete..it's really sad. But rest assured on the inside he will be eating it up.

The rule back when the show was airing was for the previews for next week's episodes get discussed in the spoiler section. Despite how out in the open a preview is, it still qualifies for the spoiler section.

I'm moving this and leaving a link back for those that want to reach it from here.

Spoiler Discussion
Talk about not-yet-aired episodes, preview clips, promo photos and spoilers here!

Leek:

Great, great WAY of talking about Angela, I love it. Angela has been under the dogma of the company for 30 years, which is "cut our heart out" for the greater good, and I take that as - when it comes down to your personaly feelings and saving the world - you gotta go for the greater good.

As Arthur said in the comic thinking of the many over the few.

If the President of the united states gets a call that his kid is in trouble - he can't say give away Georgia to save him/her or give up some weapons that could be used to kill many, many Americans - he (or she) has to say "I don't negotiate with terrists."

I think the company dogma has become corrupt and there has to be some middle ground, but I think from THEIR point of view it all makes sense and man I CAN'T wait for season three.

Why should he believe or care what Chandra said.
Chandra came in and said, "I believe you might be special."
GG ate it up.
It wasn't until Chandra came back and said, "Nope, I was wrong. You're boringly normal and I'm done wasting my time on you" that he went bonkers. Originally, the murders served the dual purpose of keeping his father-figure near him, and making him special. (They were actually tied together.)

No matter what's happened, Sylar is still GG- with all the weaknesses and desires that includes.


Why would she need to claim any kinship? Did Chandra?
It's basically the same situation- the difference being Chandra wasn't being deliberately manipulative. Angela has years of experience with this kind of thing. She'll play Sylar like a lute.


Umm... that was self-defense. The psycho attacked him with a pair of scissors.


Why? Unless she reveals her power to him, or reveals that she has a power, the fact that she's family means nothing to Sylar. He doesn't want to kill Peter's relations, he wants to kill Peter. Sylar's a lot of things, but he's not cruel.

I agree with this all.




But later on I could see him trying to use Angela as a hostage to get to Peter - but I think Angela would just taunt Sylar so he would kill her - meaning in that debate the greated good would be for Sylar NOT to get a hold of all those powers - meaning it out weights her own life.

I'm not saying it will, I just think it could.

Now all we have to do is get Linderman and Angela in a room together and Angela and Adam. Please, oh, pretty please!

I think Maya would beg to differ about that

I completely agree with you Visitor27 especially about Linderman and Angela together and Angela and Adam

Thanks Yay. The more I think about it the more it makes perfect sense. I'm sure she told The Haitian all about how he was "special" lol.

As would I. He's very cruel and I think it like it - he likes the power it brings him over other people.

Probably. But her argument would be without foundation. He killed her brother outright, no cruelty involved.
He killed her outright as well. Actually, he wanted to leave her alive. (If he'd wanted her dead, he'd have done it earlier.)



When? Where? In what way?

Does he kill? Absolutely. He's a cold-blooded serial killer. I don't remember him ever, routinely, being cruel.

What he did to Mohinder was, partly, Mohinder's own fault.

Well, if being a cold-blooded serial killer isn't cruel, perhaps you should define the word cruel.

The manipulation scene outside the motel when Mohinder was telling him how he was looking for his father's killer. Wicked cruel.

Killing Jackie Wilcox, cruel.

Pulling Eden through the glass, cruel.

Throwing Sandra Bennett around, cruel.

Sylar has shown that he can be cruel, but usually that cruelty has a purpose, and he can justify it to himself. He isn't consistantly sadistic, but he has shown that he takes pleasure is sometimes causeing suffering. Isaac mendez, mohinder, the Walker family, ect. He is not above taunting, or even targeting loved ones, he is ruthless and cruel when he needs to be. He also kills people, which is pretty bad, lol.

I agree.



Really? Seriously? This to me sounds like "well, look at the way she was dressed, it was her fault."

Sorry to be so blunt, but its no one's fault to be at the end of what Sylar does to people. He has his reasons and I understand why he does them, but he is cruel.



When stabbing someone several times after its obvious they are dead or dying isn't cruel, I don't know what is.

Umm... not really.
Mohinder had Sylar at his mercy- bound to the chair, with his abilities apparently turned off. Mohinder tortured Sylar.

Sylar just returned the favor.


Maya never saw Sylar stab anyone. Sylar killed Alejandro, actually in self-defense (Alejandro attacked Sylar, not the other way around, and had attacked him already on the road), but he did it with only 1 or 2 thrusts with the blade.


Would this be when Mohinder was using Sylar for his own ends? After he knew who he really was?


Mistaken identity, and not really cruel. (If by that you mean more than just murderous.) He killed her fairly quickly- she barely had time to tell Claire to run.


Pure self-defense. He had to stop Eden from putting her Command into action.


True, in a way. However, he only threw her once- and that was more to stop her from calling the cops than out of any sense of cruelty. (I think. I'll have to rewatch that scene.)

Synch:

I think we are just at an empass, since I find slicing someone's head open, not matter how short of a time it takes or because he meant to kill "someone else" is cruel. And now I can't get Jackie's face out of my head when her skull was ripped open while she was still breathing.

But we agree on a lot of other things.

It doesn't help that I think the "lady" deserved it... (I hated her)

But, I think it stems from the fact that, taken literally, you're right- Sylar's cruel. I guess Cruel isn't, precisely, the word I'm thinking of. Maybe Sadistic is a better term. "2 a: delight in cruelty b: excessive cruelty"

Okay, yes I can take that. But I think in certain cases he gets off on the power of being in control.

And yes, I hated Jackie also, was like all the people who made fun of me and it was funny when she died instead of Claire - cause it was because she tried to take the glory for something she didn't do. But as much as I hated all the girls who made fun of me wishing them dead really wasn't fair.

Have I mentioned that in the Heroes 'what chartacter are you?" I'm Peter.

I was the target for all of them.
Let's just say...I not only wished for it but wrote about it. (Yeah, I'm not really proud of that, but it is a fact.)

It should come as no surprise that I either get Noah or Sylar.

Of course, hell I dreamed it. I look at movies where the geek has a friend and go - that's so unrealistic. lol.

but, if they died, I wouldn't be happy - not one deserves to die for what they have done. Just how I feel. But I'm older now.

Y'know what I like about what you said, Leek, is that fits back into Sylar's old pattern. Having a list and hunting Specials only its a tougher crowd--Villains--as likely to kill him as he them. I could see him smiling at the challenge.

Still, you have to assume this dog (Sylar) will always be looking to slip his leash and then when at the proper moment he's going to turn round on whoever is holding that leash-- Angela, Bennet, the Haitian (BTW, who should intrigue Sylar and make him wonder if he absorbed his power, would he lose all those others he spent so much time collecting) and challenge them for ultimate power.

Which is why, I suppose coach Angela means to hold Peter in the dugout to wait for heavy hitter Sylar to come on then bring her own heavy hitter, Peter to do battle--if necessary.


Synch,

On the whole I agree with you about Sylar not necessarily being a sadist. Its something I've argued before. He does however, like to play "cat and mouse" with his prey. He definitely seems to take pleasure in other's helplessness example: Sandra, and Issac . I'm not sure, however, he he takes pleasure in their pain. The exception being Mohinder.

But since there are so many other more sadistic murderers in film and on television: "Dexter", "Seven", "Saw", "the Texas Chain Saw Massacre," "the Hills Have Eyes" and we haven't seen Sylar's chaining up anyone in a basement to keep around for his amusement Sylar's sadism seems by comparison, mild and pedestrian.

Well, I'd willingly give my brain up to Sylar - life hasn't offered me much thus far, I'm pretty sure I can afford to cut it a little short. And come on! Angela is pretty creepy.



Personally, I'd rather see Sylar kill a lot of people. Angela included.

I think it's because he's definitely a sociopath.

Just two things:

- Alejandro wouldn't try to kill sylar no matter if he attacked him or not.
So it wasn't self defence, sylar wanted to kill him because he stand in his way.
He would had tried to kill alejandro because of his power after he got his powers back anyway.
He already had stated that as well.

- Jackie was Ladyy and thats true. However, she still cared for claire and they were friends.
Even if she was Ladyy, she didn't deserved to die.
If you check the scene exactly, when she sees claire coming back up she doesn't even say "help me", she says "Run". That shows in a way that she acted rather selfless in that moment of danger instead of being selfish and wanted claire to bring herself to safety instead of keep fighting the guy (Sylar) to free her somehow.

BTW: I don't know if anyone knows but I knew both actresses from the movie bring it on allover again (or similar title) in which both were cheerleaders and friends AGAIN.

When I saw that they both were playing friends and cheerleaders in heroes I found it hilarious. ^^

Actually, Alejandro tried to kill Sylar. He had already attacked him once before, and did the same at the motel where he died.
Yep. He also said that he had decided to let Alejandro go. He didn't need Alejandro's ability anymore- he could get it from Maya.


It's actually fairly easy to be selfless when you're literally dying. It's easy to look heroic by saying, "I'm going to die anyway, save yourself" when you're life's blood is pouring out. I'm not taking away from what she did, it may have been one of the few decent acts in her life (although, she brought it on herself by stealing Claire's thunder), but let's not make it more than it was.
She was dying and knew it. She died even as she gasped the word- Sylar didn't waste any more time on her when he realized he had the wrong one.


Bring It On: All Or Nothing
(Yes, I know the title. It came up in a trivia thing.)

just wanted to add that without claires regeneration, when Sylar TK tossed her at a wall, he did it with the intent of killing her (assumed she was normal, and a witness), so that means he not only killed jackie because of mistaken identity, but had their roles be reversed (if claire had taken credit, and jackie was just another cheerleader talking to her) Sylar still would have swatted a jackie, a high school girl, like a fly. He might not be sadistic, but he still goes above and beyond when it comes to cruelty. He is a villain for a reason, he does bad, unjustifiable things.

I guess I'm more pragmatic. The roles were reversed, but the "should have killed" attack on Claire (thinking she was normal) was fully justified (at least from Sylar's perspective)- and it was over quick and painlessly. (Or would've been if she had been normal.)

If you're going around killing people, you don't want witnesses.

Because she's not a good character who serves no purpose to the plot and you don't like the way the actress plays the part or because she's a mean villian character who's motives and actions you don't agree with?

If its number one I understand, but number two - if the show was only filled with Peters, Claires and Hiros - there would be noe show. What would they do?

Sylar isn't a mindless killer he went a little drunk with power that's all. He loves having power, being different, being special it all just went to his head. When he found out at the end of season one that he might kill a lot of people he freaked! That shows that he's not a complete sociopath. Some parts are missing.

He is a sociopath. Someone who wasn't a sociopath wouldn't nonchalantly crack people's skulls open while they scream in agony and terror. Someone who wasn't sociopathic wouldn't consider Maya a "shiny new toy" to play with and use for his own ends until he is ready to dispose of her. Someone who wasn't a sociopath wouldn't justify several murders just so he could steal things that didn't belong to him. Sylar may love power, but he's a sociopath too.

That scene at the end of the first season is up for interpretation. I've never seen him as upset over killing people in that scene. I saw him as freaked over what that meant for him. Meaning, he couldn't figure out why he would kill all of those people since he had nothing to gain from it. I read it as him being afraid of losing control and not being able to rationalize his actions. I think his panic was entirely selfish in nature. Once he realized there was something for him to gain in all those deaths, he was A-OK with it all. Sociopath.

Someone is rarely a "complete" anything. Sylar is definitely a sociopath, but not all of the items on the list apply completely to him.

Sylar doesn't have a problem with a high body count- what upset him was the fact that he couldn't understand why he would set those events into motion. There was no gain. (Even on the phone with Mohinder, he made the same comment. Killing for power he could understand- but killing when there was nothing to gain by it?)

I wouldn't say he is a sociopath, at least not naturally. I mean just look at the episode where you see his closet and you have on the walls "forgive me for I have sinned" just covering every inch. No I'd say he killed his conscience by rationalizing his behavior, with in my opinion makes him worse than a sociopath.

He's definitely a sociopath: http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Do these sound familiar:

• Glibness and Superficial Charm
• Manipulative and Conning
  They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
• Grandiose Sense of Self
  Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
• Pathological Lying
  Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
• Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
  A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
• Shallow Emotions
  When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
• Callousness/Lack of Empathy
  Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

That glimpse of the writing on his walls was so long ago, and it hasn't been referenced since the first few episodes. I have a suspicion it was tied with the writers' original conception of the character. It could have made him much more complex if he felt a compulsion to kill but felt terrible all along the way, but it seems the writers dropped that aspect. I would have felt more sympathy for him had they played it up. I rarely even take it into consideration now.

Again I bring his old apartment where in the back there was writing on the wall that said "forgive me for I have sinned" which tells me that he used to have a conscience. Now that being said I don't think he has one anymore. Now if one can in a sense choose to be a sociopath then I'll agree that he is a sociopath, but if that is not the case then I'm going have to say he is just a man who choose to shut out his conscience to the point that he can ever really hear it again.