Does anyone else think that for one of those two, there's really no way out now? Bennet has sworn to kill Sylar. So my take is that he will either succeed in doing so, or die trying. Otherwise, a very strong scene would become rather lame.

Plus, the show really needs to re-establish that you can die even if you're a main character. (Niki doesn't count, she has at least two more running around!) It was cool how, in season one, you really feared for each and every character, but I have mostly ceased to fear because of all that magic blood and miracle business. I'd love me a nice, no-coming-back-from-this shocker.

Would you agree?

If by "HRG or Sylar dead forever" you mean "Peter dead forever", then YES!

i think they make an awesome team. my take is that they WONT kill of these two beloved characters.

even if one of them die... hope the writers will bring an interesting twist to the show!

i want sylar dead. hes too creppy pretending to be nice.

No,thank you very much! I want them both to stay.If one of them do die though,or both of them die,i want it to be for good.No using someones blood to bring them back.I doubt they die though.They`re pretty popular characters.

That's a problem for the story, though, isn't it? With Niki, her storyline was done with season one. They tried to knit a new one around her for season two but that just didn't work. So they finally let her die at the end of the season but found a way to bring back the actress. Like the miracle blood, they just can't keep this up forever. And while I can understand that they won't kill off all the popular characters, they'll have to at some point, or you simply don't fear for the characters as much anymore. I remember, at the end of "Parasite", I really thought that both Peter and Mohinder had had it. That was part of the fun, that kept you hanging on the edge of your seat (and shaking the TV after every episode). I think they really need to take this up again.

I think its more entertaining watching them teamed up.

Personally as much as I love Noah as my fave character, I could see him dying. After his quote of "As soon as this is over I'm going back to my family" I began thinking that either a) its going to happen (boring..tried and failed) or he's going to die in some really awesome way

The way I see it? Noah dies because of something Claire does or is doing, which changes her disposition from the sadictic, psychopathic claire to the more normal claire. Thus altering 'the future' in a major way because Claire would therefore not be around to shoot people and cause them unneccesary pain.

I'm in a bind. I agree in principle. But, HRG is 90% of the reason I'm watching now. If they kill him, I'll quit. That's not an ultimatum. It's just a statement of fact.

Honestly i feel that the moment he was placed with Sylar his death was foreshadowed.

HRG was once like sylar, killing, baging and tagging with no remorse or emotional guilt over what he does. He feels it was the right thing to do and stuck to that principle until his love for his own daughter got in the way. She showed him the pain that his victums and their families feel when he does his job. How many claires he's killed or bagged over the years got to him and he became less of a villain.

HRG will guide Sylar, i think as he begins to understand what makes him tick, his weakness so to speak, and thus find a way to redeem sylar much like he redeemed himself. he will no longer be refered to as Sylar at that point but as Gabriel as HRG went from Bennet to Noah.

Maybe Bennet dying after being a father figure to Sylar will be what turns him over, maybe it will be the driving mark of change adn redemtion and bring Gabriel Gray back.

If this is how its done then i can manage with losing my favorite character HRG, but it has to be well written and not a 5 min scene in only 1 episode.

I'm sorry, am I the only one who heard HRG say he was going to find Sylar's weakness and kill him?

He doesn't say that stuff for his health. He says it cause he means it. He will find Sylar's weakness. And he's gonna squeeze...

No, you're not.

But that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

It doesn't even mean that he's going to end up trying.

I hate to say it, but at this point, if one of them dies, I feel like both of them will. Either they're going to kill each other, or sylar will have reformed enough for them to both die to end a common terrible threat.

As stated above, although these are easily my favorite 2 characters on the show, there also needs to be a point where old characters die. Where you don't just get killed off if you've been on the show for the least amount of time. Killing off one or both of two characters who are widely loved by a large portion of fans is a REALLY gutsy way of saying no one is safe, and even if they pull it off, my hat will go off to Kring and the rest of the production team if they do kill one or both of them in the finale.

oh i heard it, but honestly he has his weakness a bullet to the head while the haitian stands next to him. Its flare, did you see how sincere Noah was at the Bank, pleading and begging Sylar to fight against his hunger, that showed me even he thought that maybe Gabe is still in there,

Harsh. HRG is a man of his word when it comes to Sylar. He isn't gonna let this Agent Gray business go for very long

Well, what I assume from the spoiler that FSylar has a son named 'Noah', HRG will probably die in some way that really effects Sylar on a personal level.

Maybe...Sylar will actually mold into a decent human being(gag) because of the guidance of Bennet. Then when it seems like Sylar will meet his doom...Bennet will sacrifice himself to save him...seeing that Gabriel can more readily do good for humanity than he can...and this loss with tweak Sylar's brain in an ironic twist and shazam...we have a villain again.

It would be funny if Claire stopped Noah from killing Sylar. That would be a huge twist.

I don't think HRG believes anything of the sort. He's just against senseless violence in general - he would have said anything to get Sylar to refrain from killing Jesse. The fact that he chose the whole "you've got some good in you" routine doesn't mean that he's going to hesitate to kill his new partner whenever the opportunity presents itself.

obviously Noah is my dog and I'd be hurt if he died. Sylar is a cool villian and that would suck to see him leave as well. But it may happen to one or the other or both. Maybe Noah makes good on his promise but Sylar comes back(cliche i know), or maybe Noah tries and fails, or Sylar gets it from someone else(P/F Peter?). Its hard to say with any certainity what may happen but I hope its good and juicy...

Killing Sylar could means two things to me: actually killing the man, or changing who is now Sylar so much that Sylar is essentially dead. And the sneek peek for next week kinda adds something to that, but I think I'm reading too much into it.

I think so, too. I almost want to think that there might even be a Claire/Sylar thing. Maybe Sylar also had a personal reason for not killing her? (I couldn't kill you, even if I wanted to.") He didn't want to kill her at all. And maybe her association with him is what starts her downward spiral, but it's just an idea. (I'll probably be shot just for SUGGESTING such a plot! lol)

As for Noah and Sylar, I just couldn't imagine the writers killing Sylar off. He's definitely the best villian on the show, the one that you really are just afraid of because he's so unpredictable. Who could possibly fill his shoes? It's going to have to be Bennet that dies. It would trigger a lot of different reactions in the characters.

Not that I would want to see HRG die - because I don't - but I think he would be more likely to be killed off during an episode than Sylar.

Noah's death would create a ripple in the storyline, which could go any number of ways, some of which were mentioned above by other members. Claire could have a complete personality turn. The Company might be altered. The future would certainly change in some way. It would be a cause/effect thing. Whereas, killing Sylar would create a hole in the plot. We would lose our favorite villain. Good would triumph... and would it be the end of Heroes?

Honestly, if either of them are killed, the show itself will take a major hit. IMO, there are a few too many lame characters running around in the series, that if the kill one of the best ones, theres really no going back.

Yeah I totally agree. There are more ways of changing the storyline than killing THE two best characters on the show. I mean, there's no replacing characters like HRG and Sylar, and them working together is such a dream team that its hard to resist. Also, any death of HRG would not have the same effect it would have if Bennet hadn't been brought back in season 2 from the dead. Killing HRG would just leave the audience suspicious and wondering if he really was dead, untill nobody really cared anymore. There is no reason at all to kill HRG or Sylar. Period.

You bring up a good point... the only way to really be sure of HRG being completely dead is if he gets blown away by some sort of nuclear blast or something like that, in some sort of martyr situation.

And I still stand by my beliefs that killing a big and cool character gives the show a spine. Though they should take the opportunity to also do a clean sweep of all the lame characters too.

So all the characters that are not the favorites of some people here are marked as "lame" while HRG and Sylar are the ubercool never die characters from what I read through this topic right?

Ever thought that other people are having favorites too?
Finding excuses to keep characters around forever is as lame and thats what they are doing with sylar season for season.

Even I "hated" sylar as villain and what he did, I liked him in the first season a lot.

Season 2 was then the repeat without powers that screamed "kill him already!" for itself and after all hopes died that he will finally get the axe, now they coming up with more idiotic things up only to keep him around by reversing everything they were praising us about him 2 seasons long.

If this is good work for you then I'm sorry but this just can't be true.

If I had to vote I would go for Noah to stay and sylar to go cause noah is a far more interesting character and gives far more to the show in my opinion.

On a sidenote about the nikki comments: they never even tried to give her a story in season 2.

All she did was pushing nathans, bobs and other characters storyline by being the only one regular that was shown as if it would be just a guest star for a episode or two.

Heck even sandra, west and mr muggles had more screening time then she had so how should she even be able to show her worth if she gets cut that badly?

What is happening right now makes me fear, Sylar might become a new Spike. On Buffy they kept this character way too long, because of his popularity with the fandom. And as it's difficult to explain, why Buffy left him alive for so long, they finally turned him good, which was just f****** stupid. I hope that's not what will happen with Sylar.

But I don't agree with you that the character has already passed his prime. I have stated this before, I still feel that Sylar has not had his big moment as a villain yet. Yes, he was killing people in S1, but the actual threat wasn't him but the bomb, which made Linderman the main antagonist for me. I always expected that after his recovery at the end of S2 we would finally have Sylar presented as the "Big Bad".


To come back to topic: I totally agree with G7. I understand how everyone wants to keep his favourite character on the show - but honestly guys, that's not how storytelling works. The best movies, books and shows are those, that can still surprise the watcher and where the makers don't hesitate to make "uncomfortable" decisions.

R.I.P Chewbacca...

I also do agree with you about sylar... if he became a good guy it would be lame, because his villainy is part of what makes him so great. As I said before, I'd even be happy with him as an antihero though, so long as he isn't like always fighting alongside peter.

I don't know if one of these two guys necessarily has to go, but some things are going to have change for the show to stay fresh.

Killing one of the characters is one option. I think another is changing the format of the seasons a bit. Obviously we're just 3 episodes into the season (and I've enjoyed them), but this season is following a similar format to the first two. Which is something bad happens in the future and we've got to figure out a way to stop it. Of course there are several other subplots that add depth, but that's the main thing.

Eventually, I think we have to get to a point where the characters fail to save the world and actually see these messed up futures people keep coming back from. That would create a slew of new storylines for us to enjoy.

It would also fly right over the head of the average, Joe Shmo viewer. Aaaand the ratings plummet.

Not necessarily... They are doing a Terminator movie taking place after judgment day.

Though it would have to be a completely different future from the ones that we've seen.

The biggest reason why I can't really see it is that all these futures take place far enough after present day heroes that a season would have to span multiple years, which I'm not completely comfortable with.

Why would it fly over people's heads and cause ratings to plummet? I mean wouldn't continuing the same-old thing over several seasons lead to ratings plummeting?



Not necessarily. I mean the future is only the future until it becomes the present (roughly quoting Usutu). They could fail to save the world this season or next season for example and we watch how things spiral downwards. One season wouldn't have to span multiple years.

Fair enough... and judging on the title of the next volume, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction that the show's going in.

Well this is a good discussion. I wouldn't want characters killed off just because they are "lame". If it benefits the story, has some really cool battle, things of that nature, it makes killing off characters so much more interesting and worth seeing the deaths. I agree that Sylar hasn't had his big moment yet, but I also feel he is getting to the end of his road. Turning him good is an option, but that's not what makes him Sylar.

And I'm still trying to figure out why so many people despise Peter. I see that alot in posts. He is the tragic hero. The one that tries so hard yet just can't get it right and loses more than wins. Yet he doesn't give up his hope of becoming a hero. He perseveres. And that's what makes him so interesting for me. Always wondering is this the thing that will break him? Is this the thing that'll make him stop trying and just give in? Will he actually stop listening to that good heart of his and realize most people aren't like him and take more than their fair share? Or will he continue to try to make the world a safe place for everyone?

Anyway, the only other thing with Sylar and HRG is the bit of Star Wars reference in it. People pointed out that Sylar did the Vader choke on Jesse. Better yet was HRG being all Luke-like as Sylar was getting ready to gain a new power with "I know there is good in you. Fight the hunger." Sorry, just found that amusing when I watched it.

I understand and sympathize with the characters should serve the narrative issue. However, my quandry is that at this point I care more about the characters than the narrative (which I'll just play with in fanfic on my own anyway). So, eliminating one of the few characters I still care about to beef up a narrative that I'm only following for fanfic structure and inspiration will only cut the thin cord remaining between me and this show.

I know my take on things is weird to some. But, there it is.

I don't get all the Peter hate either. I find him to be an endearing (especially in the first season) and interesting character. A lot of the complaints I've read about him is that he doesn't use enough of his powers, but people forget that he doesn't know about all of his powers yet and/or doesn't know how to properly control them yet.

As for fPeter's actions this season, I understand that he's screwed some things up but he was desperate and running for his life after 4 or so years of running and hiding. He's not a perfect character or hero, but that's what makes him interesting.

I did read somewhere that Sylar is HRG's father...

Am I the only one seeing a pattern here? No matter what our heroes did to prevent an upcoming incident - the future seems to stubbornly refuse getting better. Bomb explosion, virus, concentration camps ... there's always a new reason for a dark future.
My guess: fate ist not so easy to trick and that's what the figures will have to learn. Maybe it really is unavoidable, how Angela put it in S1.


Oh, that's just a typical anti-hype. It's what always happens to whatever or whoever is becoming too popular.

As someone who writes himself you know for sure that you cannot seperate these two. They work hand in hand.


Sorry, I just wanna check if I got this correctly: You don't care about Heroes, only for HRG and yet you need the series for inspiration for your fanfic?

The show is subpar for me, not because the plots fail. The overall narrative is workable. It's the thematic underpinning and subtext I address in my writing. That's why I need the Heroes box as it were, if not all the contents of that box. And yes, I've been watching the HRG & Claire story from S1. The subtitle for the show in my head is Father-Daughter Princess Bride Meets La Femme Nikita Meets Highlander. I deal with the other characters in terms of how they relate to HRG and Claire. See below:

http://www.herosite.net/blogs/otto/2008/09...l#comment-17483

Wait - why does either Sylar or Noah have to kick the bucket this season?

I think that the writers should cut the characters whose storylines have come to an obvious end (Niki after S1) and refrain from introducing characters who contribute nothing to the big picture (Maya and Alejandro, Monica, Caitlin), rather than killing off characters who are still relevant and engaging.

I've thought the same thing about the "inevitability" of the coming disaster. I think it's getting close to the time for the beginnings of that Armageddon to come around. Enough putting it off.

This is probably the best solution, because either character's death would kill the show's ratings. They should kill off the characters that have fallen to the wayside. I kinda wish they would return to having mostly just the characters from S1 and those from S2 who were actually RELEVANT to the plot. I'm also worried about some of these "webisodes" that are supposed to intersect, at times, with the main plot. I hope they keep these characters from being too much of the main show. That would just create more clutter.

And, yes, there is FAR too much Peter hate. People hate him for trying to save the world? So why don't we hate naive little Hiro? Because he's cute? (and don't get me wrong, I love Hiro.) But seriously, Peter is one of the most interesting characters out there.

- Killing off characters is not the only way to end things. Honestly, they could just be given a solid conclusion to their stories and move on, which gives the show more credibility than just killing off anyone who becomes useless or unpopular.

- This applies equally to Popular characters (and no, lack of popularity doesn't instantaneously make a character lame, some good characters simply just don't get popular, sadly) .

- And, let's not forget Tim Kring's original intention was not to keep characters around much, but introduce new characters as story lines got completed instead. Obviously, the popularity of many characters has changed that, but it's made the show better by keeping characters that have well-developed backgrounds and original interesting stories, thus giving us figures one can relate to and root for (And, of course, making the writers work harder to maintain their stories interesting, if they are to be kept around).

- Which leads me to wonder... Why would Noah or Sylar need to get killed?
Their popularity is justified because the are Amazing characters, and keeping them around doesn't have to mean they'll become boring, or that their staying will become too forced. They have great potential for keeping the story alive along with other characters; It's up to the writers I guess.

- And well... following Raeko's sidenote: I too believe Niki's storyline has been pushed too far (meaning all her selves), but it seems it's not for the sake of the character(s), but for some greater purpose, apparently something having to do with explaining the Heroes nature, so at least that's a more solid reason of why she's still around. (and even though the means to keeping her around are way too cheesy, I'm enjoying Tracy).

- Sorry about the rant ... it's long.

I've actually got a theory on this, despite the fact that there isn't anywhere near enough evidence yet to make it pan out.

I think the writers might be building up the year 2011 to be (as I put it in the thread I started on the matter) a space-time s**t-nexus. My only evidence so far is that s1 was set in 2006 and the dystopian future where the bad things went down was "Five Years Gone" (2011). Now, with season two present-time being early 2007, they are going four years ahead, into another bad future.

Just the silly rantings in my head.

I don't agree. If you only sort out characters that are not important at all that's like waste disposal and doesn't help the dramaturgical structure of the show. It sounds hard, but daring to kill off characters that are popular is what creates a thrill and makes a story remindable. Gwen Stacy's death, for instance, is one of the best Spider-Man stories ever told. If readers had already been sick of her, no one would have cared.

Sorry, but you can't make a general statement, when it comes to that. It worked for some characters and for others - most prominently Niki - it did not. And actually, Claire's storyline was also just repeat of S1, dealing with her struggling with being different. I'm glad the are moving on with her character now.

Very easy: Noah made a clear statement in the last episode. If the situation won't escalate in the end, it will make this very strong scene totally sense- and useless and his words just a meaningless phrase. That's not exactly good storytelling.

I guess "kill off" isn't exactly the phrase I was looking for. I think it's more of "wrap-up." They should wrap-up the stories of characters who have fallen away from the main story. Or at least, pick them up again. Like Monica. If she isn't going to be a part of the main story, they should at least let us know what happened. They don't need to kill her, but at least bring her story to a close.

Now, with Sylar and HRG, one thing that may drive up ratings is the THREAT of a major showdown between them. Maybe they don't have to kill one or the other (or both, if the writers so desire), but instead, let the threat of this conflict loom for a while, and keep the fan-bases fearing that one might die, but in the end, let both live.

Another possibility would be that one of them "dies" in the present, but the character is kept around in flashbacks, as with Issac in S2, or maybe in a way similar to how Linderman is being used again now(although too much use of this would get REALLY confusing). Both characters are so intwined with the plot that it would be hard to remove either one entirely.

Really? Repeating the same storyline?
You didn't see (through what most of us saw as very clear story telling) that S2 Claire wasn't dealing with being different? She was dealing with not being allowed to be different.


There are a hundred possible ways and reasons for neither of them to die. None of them qualify as anything less than good storytelling.

Oh, the situation will escalate, but I agree with Synch. Good storytelling doesn't always involve characters dying. There are plenty of other ways to push the storyline forward.

No, of course a good storyl doesn't automatically entail someone dying. But let's face it, Heroes is a show with a lot of casualties. (Has anyone ever done a body count for it? By episode or something? I'd love to see that. ) And if people around the main characters keep dying and the main characters keep surviving, that just stretches logic too much. The balance was great in season one, and I'd love it if it returned to that.