And Sylar's new ability iiiis.. stupidity! Hooray! The man who seems to know the ins and outs of every single ability seems to have forgotten that his TK doesn't come from his hands. He had Knox frozen with one hand, Jesse strangled with the other, then shoots a erally worried look to Flint when he comes at him. I'd always rationalised the hands thing as a device to show it was him doing it, for a more dramatic feel. I knew it would come back and bite them in the ****** some day.

I'll tell you what, why don't you divide your complete attention between 2 things, and have a third equally serious matter come at you?

Let's see how you react.

What? I don't think he was screwed b/c he didn't have another hand, it was more the fact that he was currently holding two people (who happen to be a few of the most superpowered people around) at bay with his powers. Are you saying b/c he has TK he should be able to take on as many people as he wants no matter what the situation, I mean Claire PWND him with a trophy for Pete's sake. Sylar is powerful but he does have limitations.

u never know, maybe that particular brand of telekinesis(Brian Davis's) requires hands to focus it. Just like The German needed his hands to control anything with his power. because technically if ur Pyrokinetic, u can start a fire anywhere u want, it doesnt have to originate from your hands. unless thats a constraint of the power.

hey synch easy...
but yeah, most of the specials use thier hands to focus their powers. Elle can generate an electrical blast w/o using her hands but generally uses her hands to direct/focus/aim. Same with Flint and Claires ma as well. If i had a ranged super power I can easily see myself using my hands even though I prolly didnt need to as a way to aim, target, focus, control my powers.

And as stated above, TK takes mental focus. Why he can't physically hold 3 people at bay, one of whom has super strength is similar to why he can't fly using TK, because flying with TK is like trying to pick yourself up by the feet using your hands.

Well, we've seen him use it without his hands sometimes...



lol

Hey, I was being easy. My initial instinct was much less flame retardant...

But, although I agree with what you're saying, it also comes down to trying to split intense concentration 3 ways. Kind of...impossible...

I think you're wrong here. The hands thing is more to help his concentration. Telekinesis has always been a power where you need an absolutely uncanny level of concentration to get things done. Trying to do multiple things at multiple times using the power is probably quite exhausting.

nah I feel you and I do agree with the 3 places to focus on, I wouldnt go so far to say as impossible but extremely hard to do with out getting flamed by Flint. My next question is...now that he has jesse's power could he TK two people Darth style and use Jesse's power on a third?

You are all forgetting he was not only hold 2 of the villians but he was also holding the doors. That is three places of concentration already and a 4th might be taxing him a bit much. Oh and the doors he did not use the hand with.

I thought he wasn't holding the doors until he started to kill jesse?

Man, why do some people love nitpicking every minuscule detail of a show. Really, the fact that he looked a bit worried when Flint got up makes him stupid? Wow.

The only people he's ever faced who are similar in terms of the strength of their powers is Hiro and Peter, whom he's never had to fight at the same time with a third super powerful dude coming at him. He's already trying to restrain to of them while keeping the door closed and one slip in concentration could lead to Jesse, Knox or both attacking him and escaping.

Try looking at it this way. I throw one ball at you, you catch it, put it down. I throw a second, you catch it, put it down. Are you realyl going to struggle with the third ball?


I'm saying if you can flip a truck upside down, is three people too much to handle?

And Claire jsut caught him off-guard. He was pretty much on guard for this one.

Try putting it this way, I fire a ballistic missile at you. You catch it and have to exert pressure to stop it from hitting you.

I fire another one. You catch that one and have to exert pressure to keep it from hitting you.

Now I fire a third one. Without outside interference, you're a dead man.

Sylar was exerting pressure to keep Jesse and FlameBoy (can never remember his name) from killing him. Both were still conscious and fighting against him.

I am willing to bet you have nitpicked about something somewhere on this forum. We all have.


Well, I guess that assumes I have the ability to catch ballistic missiles. I'd catch the third one I reckon

EDIT: I should add, it's only an opinion. I'm sorry if it's upsetting you.

When it's a single truck, coming right at you? Simple. A little applied force at the right spot (slamming a tk "block" into the front wheels works perfectly) and it's done.

Three people? All with powers? Yeah, a little more difficult. Especially as, unlike the truck, you can't just hit them all with the same "blast."



When you've already divided your attention in keeping the other two from hitting you? You'll forgive me if I laugh, I hope.

Okay, well there was nothing to say Sylar slammed a TK blast into the front wheels for starters. If I'm following this assumption that his hand gestures represent what he's doing, wasn't he doing a lifting motion when he flipped it? And that single truck was an armoured SWAT truck, but hey it's okay, you play it down to make your point.

And thirdly, stopping Jesse was as simple as squeezing his neck... his neck isn't super strong I assume. And If Sylar's stopping everyone, all that fear in the room is already reducing. We don't know, maybe Knox was put off by the lack of fear from Sylar. Maybe he couldn't understand why he didn't seem afraid.

Again, just an opinion.


See below above post.


Sure laugh away.

There isn't?

Let's see...wouldn't it be simple physics? Yep.

He stopped the front wheels of a heavy truck going the average speed limit- from all appearances no less than 30 mph.

That means it flipped. Done. End of story.

Wasn't downplaying it at all. I was following the basic rule of thumb- all things being equal, the simplest answer is usually correct.

I'm not saying it isn't possible to flip a truck that way, I'm just saying I don't think that's the way he did it. firstly, that kind of force is going to make the front of the car fold in at the bottom at least a little, but even assuming they didn't do that for financial reasons there are other issues. I don't believe the hand gestures are anything other than dramatising the powers, but if you were putting a backwards force on something, why would you flick your fingers up like you were lifting. It doesn't make any sense.

The simplest answer may be the correct one, but when the simple answer doesn't fit it's probably not it.

Try scratching your head, rubbing your tummy, and painting with your toes then.

Lol! I can paint as good with my toes as I can with my hands, and as far as I can tell there isn't varying degrees of how well you can pat your head or rub your tummy. I could probably do all three together as well as I could individually. Not very well. It's tough to come up with a truely fitting analogy. For example I can use the accelerator, clutch, steering wheel and gear stick all at the same time (well almost) without having to think real hard about what each of my limbs is doing. When I first started driving I had to think hard, but it becomes easier over time.

Look, its becoming fairly clear reasonably quickly that nobody on this forum agrees with me (or at least the ones that are willing to contribute to the thread don't), but I can live with that.


I've just been re-reading some of these, and Sylar did fly using TK an an early GN I thought?

I believe it was Knox and Jesse? He prevented Knox from hitting Noah and prevented Jesse from "screaming" at himself.

Flint was soon back up from when Present Peter (in Jesse's body) "screamed" at Flint. So Flint was the third, the one Noah shot.


I believe he used TK to kind of "super jump" out of the semi to grab onto a tree. It wasn't straight up flight, though.

I don't remember it making it particularly clear. It could've gone either way.

Dude, that's like everyday at school for me. XD

But I agree with you.

I'm trying to remember what all exactly happened in that scene since it's a jumbled mess in my head. Did Sylar just look at Flint and he couldn't scream? I don't remember (and I'm not looking at the episode on NBC.com at the moment).

Jesse is the scream guy and Sylar TK'd his throat

Why didn't he fly, then? He grabbed onto a tree, he didn't fly.

Sylar has split his concentration before... When he attacked Peter in Mohinder's apartment, he was holding Mohinder on the ceiling (no hands), holding Peter on the wall (kind of a hand holding Peter's chin if I recall) AND slicing into Peter's skull, all with no obvious sign of physical or mental exertion. These are three examples of telekinesis taking place at once. (Yes, I suppose you COULD count holding and cutting Peter as one action akin to holding and cutting a carrot with a knife.)

He also used telekinesis to free himself from Mohinder's chair (ripped the tape on his arms) without any hand motion.

His first (chronoligical) use of telekinesis that we saw was without hands: moving the glass across Chandra's table... and then throwing it into the wall. I think that the hand gestures originate from the fact that he accidentally threw the glass. It helps him control it, but it's not absolutely necessary... That, and it looks cool.

As for why he didn't stop Flint while holding Knox and Jesse... I chalk it up to the writers wanting to give Noah something to do during the scene.

And I'm no physics expert obviously, but I always thought Sylar flipped the truck by throwing the back end of it upwards or something like that; that's how it looked to me, at least. I don't know... and I don't particularly care. I just know he did it effortlessly.

Well try this angle: His TK cant interact with Flint's fire.

Sure, you can pin the guy to the wall, but if he can still generate fire and point it at you whilst in your TK clutches, and you can do nothing to block that fire, you'd be a little worried too. (Regen not withstanding)

Yes, he did.

But Mohinder wasn't fighting him and Peter didn't really know what was happening.

Flint and Jesse are both widely experienced in the use of their ability and were actively fighting him. His attention was split evenly in trying to keep them from attacking him- he didn't have what it took to take on a third, equally (if not more) dangerous Knox.

Kairez pointed exactly on what I was about to point until I reached his posting on the second page of this thread.

Cause fact is that he had mohinder pinned on the ceiling without even looking there and were using both hands to immobilize peter as also cut him.

Since when was both jesse and knox fighting him?
It seems that the "sylar defenders" once again trying to come up with excuses?

- Knox was already weakened (one of the reasons why he fled instead of helping his friend Jesse to prevent sylar from killing him)

- Jesse was worthless without his voice and sylars hold was already prevent him from using his voice so...

Both Knox and Jesse were just held without being able to do anything.
The doors were still open so he didn't do anything there.

Then flint comes and Sylar gets worried all of sudden...

I actually thing they did it this way for three reasons:

- so hrg can jump into action
- so that flint doesn't have to get sylared yet.
- so that knox can flee without being captured or sylared yet

Obviously of course without thinking that the way they directed it made sylar indeed look stupid.

The Best reference of using or not using hands is Jean Grey. They didn't only portrayed it very well in the comics but also in the movies in my opinion.

Sylar might not be able to fly but he can hover (or whatever the word is) like he did so that Dale can't hear his footsteps.
It was also the way he managed to escape from Matt and Audrey from the FBI building after Matt saved Audrey from him in season 1.

If you know me, you'll know I'm not a 'Sylar Defender'.

Okay, I'll have it. You're right.

Thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see this! I like to give people more credit than to assume they're just blindly defending a character they like, but I guess that credit could've been mis-placed. I love Sylar as it happens, he's a fantastic and enjoyable character, but I'm not going to rush to his defense if I notice something I feel is out of place or wrong.

I agree that the reasons for things happening the way they did was so that Noah didn't have to be entirely saved by Sylar, and to add extra tension. And that isn't even getting into the fact that Sylar can regenerate these days, and a bit of fire isn't going to affect him that much (see Claire being fried in 'Company Man' for example).

In case you've missed my posting lately, I'm hardly a "Sylar defender."

I pointed out what the show gave us regarding the reasons Sylar had to be worried.

They hardly made Sylar look "stupid" with this scene. Instead, they made him something less than invincible. What a shock. Sylar's not a god.

Since when were they fighting him? How about the entire scene.

Jesse spent the entire scene trying to use his power. As did Flint. Sylar was obviously busy keeping them from attacking him. Any slip on his part would've gotten him killed, or at least seriously injured.

Now comes Knox. Guess what? Sylar already had his attention divided 2 ways. He didn't have the power to split it a third. Look throughout the series. Watch every move the guy has made. He's never had to do that.

Your beloved Mohinder/Peter scene?

1: He had Mohinder barely concious and pinned against the ceiling. He was hardly struggling.
2: Peter barely knew what he could do. He was caught off guard and it wasn't until after Sylar started cutting him that he decided to fight.

The truck scene?
It was a single truck, coming right at him. Definitely not fighting. And, regardless the precise application of force, he did nothing more than cause the rear of the truck to flip over the front. Then he applied enough force to keep it from sliding over him.

And Im not a Sylar defender either, I hate the guy.

Opinion only.


Nobody said he was a god. You keep putting words in people's mouths - why?


Being choked - on the grand scheme of TK strength in Heroes - is very very little. We've seen the same ability rip open a vault door, I don't think this is going tax too much. Flint spent most of this time unconscious from Peter flinging him across the room.


Do you have it recorded? Go back and watch the scene just after Noah shoots Flint. Sylar starts looking very pensive, no doubt considering other possible outcomes of the so-called 'close call'. You can't tell me while he's doing that he's concentrating with all his efforts on the task at hand.


From what you've posted so far, you seem to base that entirely on the fact you believe he can't split his concentration. Clearly, from the scene I jsut referred to, concentration isn't as big a problem as you think.


So if anybody quotes anything it becomes 'beloved'. I suspect you are deliberately trying to antagonise people now, just because they're not falling in-line with your views.


I believe earlier sections of my post deal with this adequately enough.


I've never disputed it being a single truck. I just think you're downplaying how much weight the armour adds to that truck. It's not just some bedford rascal that he's flipping over, it's a heavy piece of kit. It was only meant to be a means of conveying how powerful his TK is. I'm opting for Peter's use of ripping off the safe door instead. I fear you may start to claim that Peter ues the ability on a different level now.

Wow, so you've got to be a Sylar love to not think he's an idiot for looking worried/surprised that Flint had just gotten up?

That is just absolutely ridiculous. I'm not a Sylar lover and I don't have a single favorite character on the show.

I don't see what the big deal is with Sylar being surprised/worried by Flint getting up. His attention was already on stopping Knox and Jesse and then another super-powered dude that's a pyrotechnic gets up and he's got to deal with that while keeping the other two super-powered guys restrained and keeping Bennett, who doesn't have a gun until he slides over and grabs the one that was on the ground, alive.

The only people that have the power of stupidity are those that can't see that this is a high-pressured situation. Especially for Sylar, who despite all of his powers hasn't fought one person who has had mastery of their powers, and is now facing three insane guys with full mastery of their abilities.

Nobody said you have got to do or be anything!

That's just it, he apparently didn't need to focus his attention. He wasn't focusing his attention on them much after Noah shot Flint, but he was still holding them in position. He stood there, all the while holding them in position, thinking about what could've happened.


Now you're name calling, is there any need for that? I called a character stupid for one thing. I already said I think the use of the word 'stupid' was a bit harsh on my bit, but I wouldn't call another poster names like that. At least not knowingly.

I think this about sums it up, although I would add that it's a TV show and sometimes they do things for--GASP--dramatic effect.

I mean, if he's going to play this kind of silly card, Dunc should really be calling Future Peter out for being the idiot. Why didn't he go there before it all went down, stop time, and teleport the villains back to Level 5 like he did with Matt to the desert? Judging by his nitpicky, reply-to-every-word, "nyah-nyah" policy though, he just clearly has to be right.

In summary: Who cares?

So I reply to it all and I nit-pick. I'm sure if you were arguing a point, nit-picking would quickly become 'just being thorough'. I don't believe I'm right all the time. Look at post #34 of this thread, I clearly admitted to somebody else they were right. And as far as calling Peter out for being an idiot... have you seen my signature lately?

EDIT: I would say anybody replying to this thread cares to some degree.

Also, why don't you talk to me rather than about me to someone else publicly? That's rude, man.

I think the whole thing was a perfect example of what I keep saying Sylar's weakness is: arrogance. He stops Knox from smashing HRG's horn rimmed glasses into his face, then chokes Jesse when he tries to scream and says "Shhhh.." in his scary, I'm-the-tough-killer voice. It is precisely at moments like that, when he is appearing to be overconfident, that he ALWAYS gets taken by surprise. He was of the same frame of mind when Claire struck him with first the trophy, then the knife. So him being surprised, and then realizing it was a level 5 villian surprising him obviously gave him concern. I think the hand gestures are mostly for dramatic effect. Remember all the way back to S1 when he was holding Ando up in the loft, then sneered and put his arm down, still holding him? And of course, when he's killing Jesse, he gestures to fling him against the wall, but then walks to toward him with his hands at his sides as Jesse slides up the glass. The best solution, IMO, would have been to lift Knox up into Flint's line of fire as a shield.

I have seen your banner, my point about Peter is that if you're going to get in this much of a flux about one possible plot hole, you're going to arguing your whole life about this show since it's positively overloaded with them. I can't imagine how you can enjoy this show without agreeing to suspension of disbelief, and if you view your responses as "just being thorough" then you might want to switch shows for the sake of your blood pressure.

Yes. But an opinion shared by all but a rabid minority on the boards.
I've not called you out for your opinion on the matter. Return the favor.


Sylar can endlessly divide his concentration=Godhood
If you don't like the equation? Tough.


Pinning a struggling man attempting to use a strong power in place is hardly equatable to ripping a vault door open.


And I explained that in a way that the show made obvious, even if you missed it.
Pinning Mohinder to the ceiling (a man who has no ability, so all Sylar had to do was hold him in place) and using the majority of his ability on Peter is hardly the same thing.


Antagonise? No. I'm more obvious about it when I'm picking a fight.
The fact that you continue to use the argument when it's been proven to be a non-argument is what makes it "beloved."


Obviously not. Or they wouldn't have been brought up by many others, not just myself.


Weight had little to do with it. "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world. " It's simply a matter of applied physics. And it's hardly as if the truck were fighting him.

He wasn't focusing his attention much after Flint was shot because he didn't have anything else to worry about. If he had actually had to fight off Flint while holding the other two he would have had a tough time.

Like I said, for all of Sylar's power he's not accustomed to being threatened. He fought Peter twice in the first season when he had limited control over his powers, he fought Hiro but all Hiro could do is escape him. He's never been in a situation where he fought someone who were as adept at their abilities as he was. Adding a third guy gave him something to think about because if Flint had used his powers Sylar's TK can't really stop that and he would have lost grip of Jesse and Knox.

As for the name-calling, I apologize, I was just extremely annoyed by some people saying that you had to be a Sylar fanboy to think it was reasonable for him to be worried.

Sorry if I called you out on your opinion, I never meant it to come across that way. Sayign that, didn't you just call me rabid for having my own opinion? I assume I'm part of the minority you're referring to. You are disagreeing with me every bit as strongly as I'm disagreeing with you, how does that make me more rabid?

I never said endlessly. Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? I just think 3 things isn't too much for him to handle, because I believe he didn't exert much concentration on the first 2.

Yet he appeared to be stopping that person and another person whilst thinking about other matters all at the same time. I don't think it's too much of a stretch. You know when I started this thread I wasn't as die-hard about my views as everyone seems to imagine, and I think that is my fault for the way I phrased it. Stupidly I didn't think about the way text comes across open to interpretation. I'm just responding in this manner because of the way everyone else tore into me for my opinions. Even you said in your second or third post you'd had to make yourself less flame-retardant or something to that effect. That said to me you were already flying off the handle before even enquiring further about what I meant.

I didn't miss it, I just felt the ways I have explained it repeatedly dealt with that accordingly. To my mind. In my opinion. There is no right or wrong in opinion.


I just don't believe you on that I'm afraid. I think any mutual third party will agree that we've both been a bit antagonistic at points.


You're right, the majority is always right. The earth is flat, isn't it?
And yes, I know the scale of these is quite a bit different, I'm jsut illustrating my point with it. And somebody else did agree with me earlier in the thread. The nature of these things, I find, is that people tend to get involved when they disagree rather than agree.

No, the truck wasn't fighting him. Gravity was. Okay so I'm wrogn about the truck, my physics isn't very good, what can I say. Does this mean you're right on everything now? What about the vault door? how long a lever and fulcrum do you need for that?

I would normally agree that it's reasonable for him to be worried, but he wasn't even slightly worried when the very adept Jesse was about to have a go at him. Not even one little bit.

You know what, I'm disagreeing with all of you still, but I'm giving up responding now, because nobody is ever going to agree with me. I don't mind that, it's only meant to be an opinion, but this thread is going to end up shut down with me being warned or something. No hard feelings to any of you as far as I'm concerned.

The best thing you can do as did I Dunc, let it go and be done with it.
There are people in these boards that if you dissagree with them they are trying to tear you appart by all means instead of keeping a conversation going the way it should be.

The funniest thing is that I even wrote in my previous posting the reasons why I think they did that scene this way and even it was obvious that it wasn't a limitation of sylar being too concetrated to the powerless knox and the chocked jesse but only something they did to bring HRG into play, these people still ignoring it and going debatting what I had wrote above this part.

Why? Because they think that moving a armed fbi track that has a weight of tons with 2 fingers is easier than holding 3 people put which can't do anything against tk.
Most of all when sylar as also others with tk already proved that you don't need your hands to move something with tk. Alone that he looked to jesses direction he could just throw him back.

He didn't so HRG can come into play cause thats the way the directors wanted it.

So... now have fun tearing apart every single letter I wrote.
I'm out of here... have a nice day!

You want to know what's hilarious, Raekon? Nobody's been debating that lately. In other words, until now, both sides had admitted that they'd made their points, that the other side completely disagreed with those points, and that there was no sense continuing the debate.

Suddenly, you come into a thread and try to restart a 4 day old argument. And you accuse others of wanting to argue?

Hey, a little disagreement is not necessarily an unhealthy thing. It happens a lot on the boards.

Speaking of which, I need to go back and review that scene.

Edit: Just rewatched the scene again. Yeah, Sylar does look nervous when Flint starts coming at him right before HRG shoots him. And then he looks pretty confused for the next few seconds like he knew he wouldn't have been able to focus on nabbing Flint or something. (Probably because his concentration was focused on the two dudes he was already holding).

I know I said I'd leave it, but I'm going to answer what you said anyway. If he's thinking about how Flint could've done him in, he's obviously not concentrating that much on who he is holding.

I too reviewed the scene just after this argument fizzled out, and I also noted how the hostages were all let out before Noah went in, diminishing Knox's strength substantially. By the time Sylar was in Noah wasn't scared anymore because Sylar was there to cover him, Peter was gone so he wasn't scared, Jesse had no reason to fear Knox and Flint was out cold, and certainly not scared when he regained consciousness.


I noted you as reasonable if it makes you feel any better. Even if you'd disagreed I would've done it because you didn't ream me out for my ideas!


I'm glad to see you agree the argument only ended because neither of us was willing to concede to the others opinion, but last time I checked I was the only one of us who admitted it. You just stopped because I ended my part in it.

EDIT: In Raekon's defense, I'd like to say that it is possible that somebody is away from the boards for 4 days, and doesn't have the opportunity to immediately reply to everything. I've not checked into their last posting or anything, but even if they have posted in the mean-time, that doesn't mean they had the time to post to every little topic they wanted to at that given time.

2ND EDIT: I have also revised my opinion since reviewing that scene I should mention, but not for any of the reasons above, such as concentration. The only reason I think Noah saved Sylar was because Sylar just didn't notice Flint in time. He only turned and spotted him moments before he was about to burn him. I still don't understand why he had to look so worried afterwards though, he would've healed.