I remember that a lot of us (myself included) were horrified at the change in Peter we saw last episode. Angela's words about Peter "sacrificing himself" actually made up for a lot of what I thought was so terribly wrong last week. It's been made clear that this isn't Peter. I thought it was completely in character for Peter in that situation to attack Angela (since he wanted answers and she's been keeping those from him for all his life), and the following scene really made me see it from a totally different point of view.

I keep thinking of Linderman's/Maury's* words - "The greater the fall, the higher the ascension". I'm thinking that Peter's in for some of that. (And please, please, make him grow some along the way.)





__________________________
* Neener neener neener, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it!

I actually thought Peter attacking his momma was a little silly, but we can disagree about that.

What bothers me is the way everybody was so calm about it. Angela saying, "Peter sacrificed himself for the greater good," made me scratch my head. Your son just tried to MURDER YOU, crazy woman! And then Nathan acting more outraged upon seeing Peter strapped down than when he hears that Peter tried to kill their mother. If you go back and watch the scene, it goes like:

Angela: Hi, Nathan.
Nathan: WTF? WHY IS PETER STRAPPED DOWN?!?
Angela: He tried to kill me.
Nathan: Oh why's that?

Seriously. =p

Well, think about Nathan's and Angela's last meetings. He pretty much hated her throughout the last season. I didn't think it was terribly strange. Angela has never been very emotional about many things, why would she be with her own attempted murder?

For those wondering why Peter would want to kill Angela:

When Peter kills F_Nathan he does it even though he read his mind. He knew what Nathan was going to do, but he just didn't understand why. He KNEW but he needs to UNDERSTAND. Reading his mind wasn't enough, in fact reading his mind was getting his feet wet with the hunger.

Now, who else is constantly enigmatic? Who else would Peter really like to understand? Angela didn't have a chance.

As for Angela not being more freaked out: I think she feels she deserves to die. Thats basically what she told Nathan when Maury and Adam were after her in S2. Also, this episod is the first one (I think) where we see Angela truly remorseful. She is not proud of what she did to Nathan and The Blonde Brigade (=Niki, Tracy and Barbara.)

Actually Nathan's reaction was on point IMHO. With all the manipulating and wheeling and dealing that his mother has done it would be of no surprise to him that someone tried to kill her. The fact that it's Peter is more shocking because that is something that Peter(at present) would never do. Then what he already knows about her from S2 is compounded by what he finds out about what she did to him as a baby. So when he tells her to "go to hell" he actually meant it.

Uh... why is this hard to believe?

Angela's spent S1 and S2 making both of them hate her.

I guess I'm the kind of guy who believes that no matter what goes on between a parent and child, one's concern for the other's well-being will always remain. Guess that's an unpopular view, but that's how I see it. I've rewatched Adrian Pasdar's performance since I made that comment, and I still think that his reaction to the news that Peter tried to murder Angela was a little underwhelming.

Well, Sylar loves her- sort of. That's something, right? He really is the perfect son for her.

Peter isn't at all Peter any more. He pretty much is out of his gourd with the hunger that Sylar's IA generates. I don't think Peter was at all used to figuring things out either, so he has a lot of adjusting to do.

Yeah.. not so much.

I guess I've known too many real life dysfunctional families. Too many times when the bond was irrevocably severed- to the point where funerals go unattended, parents go unmourned. Every day you hear another story about a child killing a parent, and displaying little/no remorse.

I mean, concerning Nathan, I'm more concerned about his not demanding that Angela free Peter. Angela deserves for Nathan to hate her at this point, he should have told her to "go to hell" by the end of season 1, she was totally into the whole lets manipulate Nathan to help blow up NYC, so it's kind of a rocky relationship. On the other hand P_Peter's been missing since Nathan got shot so if we're wondering about any "under reactions" I'd have to say it was between the brothers not with Angela.

I think that Nathan believes Angela was lying. When she goes on about Peter "sacrificing himself" his response about her "locking Peter away" is telling to me. To me it's no wonder he doesn't care when she tells him that Peter tried to kill her, I'm convinced he thought she made it up.

Yeah I know what you mean... Once this girl who worked for me told me the situation with her mother. I won't go into details, except her mother 'sold' her to a guy, when she was a kid, and that is how she had her 1st child.

There are certain situations that make 'disowning' family understandable. That having been said: I don't think the characters on Heroes really go that far, at least at this point.

Although I can see why Nathan acted the way he did.

I was kinda hoping Peter would kill Angela. She is one pretty twisted individual. Feeding her employees to Sylar, manipulating her own son to blow up D.C... I'm confused as to why so many people are still on her side...

ah, i thought Peter's "sacrifice" was him taking on Sylar's ability, it is quite the burden.

Um the bad thing about that is that in season sylar look at everyone with abilities as a puzzle and that they didnt deserver there powers and then it goes to a hunger. Kinda garage reason in my opinion.

the bad thing about what? I don't understand what you are saying in context.

Yeah, I don't see how they contradict each other. I mean one is why it was so easy for him to do it, the other is what he told himself after doing it.

It's been The Hunger since Season 1. There have been other things involved as well. There still are.

They're not excusing what he's done- the first thing you ever hear from him is that he doesn't want to fight The Hunger.

But, obviously, things changed in his character to make him fight it as of the IABD timeline.

Please let's not have a tiresome hunger-debate again. I'm sure, Synch is totally willing to explain to everyone how this perfectly fits everything Sylar ever did and thought, but honestly: there are like dozens of threads dealing with this topic. We don't need another one.

THANK YOU! I even stopped to reply or even read these topics anymore mostly for the "excusers" that would defend anything and try to find even more excuses for the smallest details ever.
So I don't even know if I got replies to mine or even got flamed anymore but I also don't care because it got tiring to me so I don't even visit these threads there since my last replies on them.

As about the situation you are talking here, I think Angela meant as she also said that peter sacrificed himself by taking OR unlocking sylars ability (in her terms taking).

However, I think that Nathan should had been a little more shocked about the "peter tried to kill me" situation. Even if not because of his mother, than at least because of his brother.

Most of all since Nathan knows better than anyone else that Peter wouldn't be able to do such a thing ever and not against his own mother in the first place.

Anyway.. it's only a small detail and even it would had been a little better to see it taking place, it's not THAT bad in my opinion. There are far worser things that happened there.

im really finding it hard coming to terms with one of my fave characters
of all time changing into this peter monster, but i am very very
interested in how it all plays out (pardon the obvious use of sylarism
there hehe). i agree that angela feels that she does deserve to die,
and perhaps she thinks that dying at the hands of her son would be fitting
for her.

I have a whole different take on what's going on this season. Maybe I'm crazy, but here goes.

I think Angela believes that Peter did sacrifice himself by accepting Sylar's ability and the side effect. Angela just fed an employee to Sylar to help him combat that side effect. In essence, she gave Sylar an artificial conscience. Now when he touches a person he knows everything about them. He could even feel Claire's pain.

Now, Peter has turned himself into a mess. Angela doesn't have faith that Peter will sort himself out. She's always babied and underestimated him. I believe that since Peter has always had empathy, a thing Sylar lacked, he has the right stuff to control the side effect of Sylar's original power. Just like with every other power that Peter has ever accumulated, it will take Peter forever and a day to bring IA and the hunger under his control. Once he does that, he'll be able to use his IA like Sylar does. He'll finally know exactly how things work, including his own powers! He'll finally know precisely how to use them effectively and won't overload, shut down, or freak out. Basically Sylar got empathy. Peter got control. Now in theory they are both complete and functional. Once Peter recovers and Sylar progresses, neither of them are broken anymore.

As for Angela, she commits terrible acts but always believes that she is serving a good beyond herself. By her moral compass, the worst thing she's probably ever done was her little bout of shoplifting. That was a selfish act that made her feel alive. Every other evil she's committed has served her vision of the greater good. Basically I think Angela is a caring mother who loves all her sons and is a generally well-meaning person. She's also capable of doing absolutely any atrocity that she thinks needs to be done in order to serve mankind as a whole.

She's terrifying. She's a monster. She's also an angel. In fact according to her name she is a Stone Angel. I think that name is very fitting.

Yup, that was what I meant too.



I'll have to rewatch it, but I assumed that we weren't seeing the scene from the very beginning - has Nathan met Angela down in the cell? Could he have just met her in her office, and then they went down to Peter? That way, concern about her well-being would have been dealt with offstage.

Besarien:



Oooooh, nice!

ooooooooooo stone angel. love it

Besarien, my thoughts were so close to what you wrote. Thank you for your posting.

Okay, now I did rewatch it and right, we definitely saw all there was - Nathan comes in, Angela is there with Peter and tells him what happened.

But I still think that Nathan's reaction, or lack thereof, made sense. He comes in and sees his brother lying unconscious in a cell in level 5, while his mother is perfectly composed and in control. It was different when he rushed into her cell in season two after she had been attacked by Maury. There he really felt she needed protection. In this case, he's definitely more concerned for Peter, based purely on the surroundings.

I thought his reaction was very much in character.

I agree with you. Not only that but I think this is a case of liars are never believed even when they speak the truth. I don't think that Nathan feels that she is telling the truth about what happened.

Ohh, absolutly. Nathan's reaction is right on the mark. I've been calling her kinda of the "pre-cog" who cried wolf. As heart braking Angela was this episode and so right she made her own bed and Nathan has ever right to tell her to go to hell.

That was what was so great about the scene you saw each side and each reaction was totally based on character and history.

Nathan of course doesn't believe or want to help her. Petrellis are emotional, well it seems we are learning, and what i always expected -- they get it from Angela. lol.

That could had been the case.

Besarien:
I love your view about Angela, good job!
I wouldn't say she is a stone angel because she showed feelings many times when it came to her children and always tried to get them out of harms way whenever she could.
Except of course if she thought it wasn't "avoidable" which comes through her power.