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9th Wonders Boards > Episode Discussions > Season Three - Villains > 3.05: Angels and Monsters
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BluEyedGrl105
Does Nathan know what his mother's ability is? She told him he had the genetic lineage to take the formula so he should have asked "so what can you do? what could Dad do?"...But maybe the writers didn't want the later question until the end of the episod.
LowerTheBar
He think the shock that he was actually injected with this was a little overwhelming at the time. He had thought that the abilities were god-given until just before this scene. He was probably feeling pretty apologetic about what his own parents did to Tracy too, considering it pushed her to the point of attempting suicide.
prander
I thought that was an interesting dynamic. "Mr. Religious" just finds out that his "God given" power was artificially and scientifically developed and given to him because of his genetics.
BluEyedGrl105
QUOTE (LowerTheBar @ Oct 14 2008, 06:45 PM) *
He think the shock that he was actually injected with this was a little overwhelming at the time. He had thought that the abilities were god-given until just before this scene. He was probably feeling pretty apologetic about what his own parents did to Tracy too, considering it pushed her to the point of attempting suicide.


Good point. I wonder when/how Nathan will figure out what his mother can do?
Hopper
He probably has a good guess, but like LTB said, he's probably overwhelmed.

Funny that. I wonder how he'll view his ability now. Will he ever enjoy flying again (compared to when he was describing that feeling to Niki in 1.04 in his hotel room)?
sharisse
i thought it was really interesting to make nathan into a synthero. v.good move smile.gif
GoldSeven
QUOTE (prander @ Oct 15 2008, 04:48 AM) *
I thought that was an interesting dynamic. "Mr. Religious" just finds out that his "God given" power was artificially and scientifically developed and given to him because of his genetics.


I agree. And I wonder where that leaves him when he finds out that his Linderman was actually Maury.
Corklad
Nathan being injected was a good move for his character alright . . . give him some more inner conflict lol
10thWOTW
QUOTE (sharisse @ Oct 15 2008, 02:16 AM) *
i thought it was really interesting to make nathan into a synthero. v.good move smile.gif


Synthero... laugh.gif

Previously on.......
SYNTHEROs..

Daddy Petrelli: "Ahh, the eggs are ready"
Papa Nakamura: "Here is the Formula"
Daddy P: "Uhm, ok. One drop here, fours drops there..."
Papa N: "FOUR DROPS!?!?!?"
Daddy P: "Erm, yes - Niki, Jessica, Tracy and Babs!"
Papa N: "Oh, yes, er, hahahahahahaha"
Daddy P: "A splash here, and a wash there..........."
BluEyedGrl105
QUOTE (10thWOTW @ Oct 15 2008, 12:42 PM) *
Synthero... laugh.gif

Previously on.....
SYNTHEROs..

Daddy Petrelli: "Ahh, the eggs are ready"
Papa Nakamura: "Here is the Formula"
Daddy P: "Uhm, ok. One drop here, fours drops there..."
Papa N: "FOUR DROPS!?!?"
Daddy P: "Erm, yes - Niki, Jessica, Tracy and Babs!"
Papa N: "Oh, yes, er, hahahahahahaha"
Daddy P: "A splash here, and a wash there......."


that is so wrong.. blink.gif (and kinda funny rolleyes.gif )

btw- Jessica wasn't one of the triplets. She was probably Hal's biological child who died saving Niki.
Hopper
^ If that is so, I feel bad for Jessica.
oliveFoxx
I'm rather sure Nathan has an idea that his mother has a power ever since S1. He knew Linderman had one, the both of them were working together and Angela told him and Peter that she did know about their powers even before they did. I doubt it was surprising revelation.
Visitor27
QUOTE (oliveFoxx @ Oct 17 2008, 03:24 PM) *
I'm rather sure Nathan has an idea that his mother has a power ever since S1. He knew Linderman had one, the both of them were working together and Angela told him and Peter that she did know about their powers even before they did. I doubt it was surprising revelation.


Its just come to the point where you'd think he would ask. I can say this time he was just so upset, but if they skip over him being told, or seeing it happen I'll be upset. Like how we never got to see WHEN HRG found out Angela was Sylar's mom, he just said it like it was a fact they had already discussed, although I love Syar's taunting, "you mean my mother..." to HRG.

And I hope they don't forget present Peter doesn't know Angela's power also. Only Future Peter does.
LOSTie
QUOTE (10thWOTW @ Oct 15 2008, 11:42 AM) *
Synthero... laugh.gif

Previously on.....
SYNTHEROs..

Daddy Petrelli: "Ahh, the eggs are ready"
Papa Nakamura: "Here is the Formula"
Daddy P: "Uhm, ok. One drop here, fours drops there..."
Papa N: "FOUR DROPS!?!?"
Daddy P: "Erm, yes - Niki, Jessica, Tracy and Babs!"
Papa N: "Oh, yes, er, hahahahahahaha"
Daddy P: "A splash here, and a wash there......."


I dunno why but when you said formula I randomly thought "PowerPuff Girls". >>;
Syntheros are made with Chemical X!! DX
And Tracy also gotz suger, spice and everything nice.
lol x3
BluEyedGrl105
QUOTE (LOSTie @ Oct 17 2008, 06:33 PM) *
I dunno why but when you said formula I randomly thought "PowerPuff Girls". >>;
Syntheros are made with Chemical X! DX
And Tracy also gotz suger, spice and everything nice.
lol x3


DUUUUUDE I loved the Powerpuff Girls! That was my show!

Its official. Thats what I'm going to call the triplets for now on biggrin.gif
LOSTie
QUOTE (BluEyedGrl105 @ Oct 17 2008, 07:23 PM) *
DUUUUUDE I loved the Powerpuff Girls! That was my show!

Its official. Thats what I'm going to call the triplets for now on biggrin.gif


OMG!!
Yes, please! XD
BluEyedGrl105
QUOTE (LOSTie @ Oct 17 2008, 07:27 PM) *
OMG!
Yes, please! XD


I'm trying to picture Bubbles with a split personality... biggrin.gif

She kinda did, remember the episod when she went all "hard-core"?
Disappointed
Can someone please tell me why is it a good thing that Nathan is a "fake" hero, a "passer". I hate this new development. I feel like they've just demoted his character. He's become irrelevant now. mad.gif I hope he never flies again.
RedWolf
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 09:44 AM) *
Can someone please tell me why is it a good thing that Nathan is a "fake" hero, a "passer". I hate this new development. I feel like they've just demoted his character. He's become irrelevant now. mad.gif I hope he never flies again.


It could explain why his powers are radically different from his siblings.

For example Flint and Meredith are siblings have fire, half-brothers Jesse and Echo has sound manipulation.

Which could also indicate that Arthur's base ability could be a multi-power user if we are to judge Peter and Gabriel.

Because Empathy and Intuitive Aptitude alone does not explain how they can absorb abilities.

As we've seen with Maury and Matt some abilities are inheritable.
cowgirlhero
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 18 2008, 09:44 PM) *
Can someone please tell me why is it a good thing that Nathan is a "fake" hero, a "passer". I hate this new development. I feel like they've just demoted his character. He's become irrelevant now. mad.gif I hope he never flies again.



I think it's part of the "Heroes and Villains" thing they are doing. Maybe it will "natural" versus "made" people with abilities. Or, another way to divide our Heroes and cause conflict between them.
Disappointed
QUOTE
I think it's part of the "Heroes and Villains" thing they are doing. Maybe it will "natural" versus "made" people with abilities. Or, another way to divide our Heroes and cause conflict between them.


Well, that's a stupid idea. The show has lost it's way. The writers don't know what they're doing. But the worst part is they've made Nathan a useless character. mad.gif No wonder the show is losing viewers.

flyboynathan
QUOTE (RedWolf @ Oct 18 2008, 07:19 PM) *
For example Flint and Meredith are siblings have fire, half-brothers Jesse and Echo has sound manipulation.

Where did you get this from? I don't recall it ever being presented that Flint and Meredith or Jesse and Echo were related.

And Disappointed (I've got a wild guess as to how you came up with that name), I think the Nathan having synthetic abilities has made his character more interesting. He now has to relearn to embrace his powers, and is broken after believing that it all came from God. This could pit brother against brother as well as husband against wife. I think this conflict is great and can't wait to see Nathan cope with this revelation and his abilities.

BTW: Please learn to use the correct possessive form of "its."
RedWolf
QUOTE (flyboynathan @ Oct 19 2008, 11:30 AM) *
Where did you get this from? I don't recall it ever being presented that Flint and Meredith or Jesse and Echo were related.


BTW: Please learn to use the correct possessive form of "its."


Spoiler and the Tracker.

P.S. There nothing wrong with the grammar. "Its could..." is grammatically incorrect.

I used It as a pronoun. Go study before lecturing me on English.
Disappointed
I feel the exact opposite. Nathan is now irrelevant to the show. I never thought I would say this but I wish he had stayed dead. sad.gif I'm tired of seeing the writers taking everything away from the character.
flyboynathan
QUOTE (RedWolf @ Oct 18 2008, 08:45 PM) *
P.S. There nothing wrong with the grammar. "Its could..." is grammatically incorrect.

I used It as a pronoun. Go study before lecturing me on English.

I was referring to Disappointed's post:
QUOTE
The show has lost it's way.


RedWolf, could you post links to the references?
Disappointed
Well gee sorry. We can't all be perfect like others.
flyboynathan
Nobody's perfect. I'm just the kind of Grammar Nazi that sighs when people use the incorrect form of him vs. he. But enough with the thread spamming!
RedWolf
QUOTE (flyboynathan @ Oct 19 2008, 11:56 AM) *
RedWolf, could you post links to the references?


It is somewhere in the spoiler section.

According to the spoiler Meredith has a family member with the same power as her. Who else in the current season has a fire ability?

But here's a reference in the Heroes wiki.
http://heroeswiki.com/Theory:Meredith_Gordon

As for Echo bio from the tracker.

http://heroeswiki.com/Echo
QUOTE
Echo DeMille has two brothers and a sister. He is the only one of the DeMille children not to serve in the military, and Echo's relationship with his father — an ex-Navy SEAL — has suffered as a consequence. Echo is closest to his sister Farah, a registered nurse.

Echo was profoundly affected when his eldest brother was killed while serving in Iraq. Later, Echo's troubled younger half-brother, Jesse, joined the military as well but was discharged during boot camp and was soon picked up the first of what would be a long series of misdemeanor and felony arrests. Echo was an early accomplice in many of Jesse's infractions but their paths diverged when Echo made his first breakthrough as a DJ.

According to an early interview with his local newspaper, Echo's self-described passion for DJing stemmed from a belief that music empowers humans on a subconscious level, increasing social potential and communication awareness. At one point, he described music as a way to hide as well as a way to get along. Apparently still unaware of his post-human abilities, Echo began to travel extensively to explore various cultures and their music traditions, and as a result, became increasingly known in club circles for both educating and entertaining his audiences through his unique, eclectic musical choices.

At the height of his success as a professional DJ, Echo announced his decision to become a mailman. He explained his choice by saying that he wanted the opportunity to serve his community and he had long admired the legendary consistency of the mail carrier to deliver "rain or shine." Shortly after joining the Postal Service, Echo's power began to manifest.

A sound manipulator, Echo can mimic and distort noise, replicate frequencies, and create sonic blasts of devastating proportions. Echo has noticed that his ability to manipulate sound increases greatly when his fight-or-flight reflex is engaged. He seems to regard his ability to manipulate sound in all its forms as both a blessing and a curse, and he actively continues to explore the extent of his power.

For the past ten years, Echo has lived in Los Angeles, a city that he calls home. He recently purchased a house with his girlfriend, Gina, using funds saved over the course of several years.


This shows that two siblings could have the same base ability. But with Nathan he wasn't born with the genetic code for abilities.

He's like Mohinder the powerless sibling of Shanti who was hinted having an ability.

Both Peter and Sylar have the capacity to use multiple abilities and being brothers support the premise that natural powered siblings has a disposition to a particular power.

When you think about it Empathy and Intuitive Aptitude are two sides of the same coin.

Empathy is about feelings while IA is about how it works. Different methods of comprehension.

I think the reason why Sylar could not access his abilities in the present as opposed to the future is that he does not understand instinctively how some of his abilities work.

As in the future Gabriel is an emotional man. So Gabriel can access his abilities like Peter can.
Visitor27
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 18 2008, 08:19 PM) *
Well, that's a stupid idea. The show has lost it's way. The writers don't know what they're doing. But the worst part is they've made Nathan a useless character. mad.gif No wonder the show is losing viewers.


Is Claire less Noah's kid because she's adopted. How is Nathan a less Hero because he was "made" and from what I hear Nathan is a huge part of the story, we just have to wait and see. Have some patience.

Redwolf, your not in the spoiler section. You need to use spoiler tags when talking spoilers.
Disappointed
QUOTE
Is Claire less Noah's kid because she's adopted. How is Nathan a less Hero because he was "made" and from what I hear Nathan is a huge part of the story, we just have to wait and see. Have some patience.


I know many fans that don't consider Noah as Claire's real father and think that she should go leave with the Petrellis, her REAL family.

If Nathan is a Hero, so is Mohinder or anyone else that gets injected with the special drug. You were either born a Hero or you weren't. I can dye my hair blond but it doesn't mean I'm a real blond.
Visitor27
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 18 2008, 10:26 PM) *
I know many fans that don't consider Noah as Claire's real father and think that she should go leave with the Petrellis, her REAL family.

If Nathan is a Hero, so is Mohinder or anyone else that gets injected with the special drug. You were either born a Hero or you weren't. I can dye my hair blond but it doesn't mean I'm a real blond.


So you want the other characters do be like you and treat him as a second class citizen? Sandra is Claire's mother and she would never see herself as otherwise, I think it's the same thing. His DNA says he has it and I'm sure it doesn't look any different from Peter's - after all Nathan was on the list.

I actually find it a little, in a pretend way cause these aren't real issues I know, feel offended that Nathan is being considered less of a person.
Disappointed
QUOTE
So you want the other characters do be like you and treat him as a second class citizen? Sandra is Claire's mother and she would never see herself as otherwise, I think it's the same thing. His DNA says he has it and I'm sure it doesn't look any different from Peter's - after all Nathan was on the list.

I actually find it a little, in a pretend way cause these aren't real issues I know, feel offended that Nathan is being considered less of a person.


I don't think that Nathan is less of a person but I do think the writers see him as a "second class" character. I've suspected this since season 2 and this storyline just confirms it for me. They don't care for the character and would've gotten rid of him if it weren't for his vocal fans. They can't risk losing anymore fans than they already have.
Synch
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 11:34 AM) *
They don't care for the character and would've gotten rid of him if it weren't for his vocal fans.


Umm... since they've never written him a death story yet, I doubt the idea of getting rid of him has even occurred to them. (S1 finale- he had already filmed parts of his S2 role by the time it aired. S2 finale- everybody, including the actor, knew that the death wasn't quite what it looked like.)
Disappointed
The medias were reporting at the end of season 2 that at least half of the writers wanted Nathan to stay dead which led to some of his fans creating the "Save Nathan Petrelli" Web site.
Synch
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 11:47 AM) *

?

Odd.. I never heard even a whisper that the writers wanted to keep Nathan dead. Actually, I heard just the opposite.
Visitor27
QUOTE
?

Odd.. I never heard even a whisper that the writers wanted to keep Nathan dead. Actually, I heard just the opposite.



Either did I. And can we also mention that if they writers tell you what will happen at the end of a cliffhanger it's not a cliffhanger. As Jeff Loeb once said "You're asking me to comment on a cliffhanger? (come on!)

QUOTE
I don't think that Nathan is less of a person but I do think the writers see him as a "second class" character. I've suspected this since season 2 and this storyline just confirms it for me. They don't care for the character and would've gotten rid of him if it weren't for his vocal fans. They can't risk losing anymore fans than they already have.


See I find him the most compelling character on the show and his story-line is just starting. And he has so much meant now and he hasn't even found out his father, his hero, is still alive. I can't wait for the rest of Nathan's storyline. I mean the ansty that's being laid on him.

The writers have said many, many times the Petrelli brothers are one of their favorite parts of the show

I couldn't disagree more on your thoughts, but it is your right to stop watching the show. I am going to have some patience and look forward to see how it all plays out. I think a show like this is hard because we get such little info, but I don't get how making him a less hero makes you think the writers are making him a less of a character. It seems to me they are giving him a great deal to carry on his shoulders. And it led to the best scene, in my opinion of season three so far - his scene with Angela in reaction.
Disappointed
QUOTE
Odd.. I never heard even a whisper that the writers wanted to keep Nathan dead. Actually, I heard just the opposite.


QUOTE
On December 4th, Kristin, of Watch With Kristin, reported some terrible news: the writers are not in agreement about keeping Nathan alive. She spoke earlier of the fans being up in arms about Nathan’s possible demise. We owe it to her, to the writers, and to the love we all have for this incredible character to show the writers exactly what fans think.


Link

QUOTE
I couldn't disagree more on your thoughts, but it is your right to stop watching the show. I am going to have some patience and look forward to see how it all plays out. I think a show like this is hard because we get such little info, but I don't get how making him a less hero makes you think the writers are making him a less of a character. It seems to me they are giving him a great deal to carry on his shoulders. And it led to the best scene, in my opinion of season three so far - his scene with Angela in reaction.


I really hope you're right but the writers have given me every reason not to trust them. As for the writers loving the Petrelli brothers, I don't buy it, unless you're talking about Peter and Sylar. They have gone out of their way to destroy the Nathan/Peter relationship since the beginning of this season. I know some fans who feel that the relationship is damaged beyond repair. I guess we'll just have to wait and see who's right.
Synch
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 01:18 PM) *


1: That was from the website. I'm not saying they're lying, but it's the only source I've seen.
2: Even if they're right about the report, there are things to consider. First, "the writers are not in agreement" is hardly the same as saying half the staff wanted him dead. Also, this source was Kristen? Would this be the same one who gave us 4 or 5 different "spoilers" regarding who Ali's character would be this season?
IotV
I can't see how Nathan not having his power naturally matters. :?
JimProfit
QUOTE (IotV @ Oct 19 2008, 09:04 PM) *
I can't see how Nathan not having his power naturally matters. :?


Exactly, why should that matter? It's not the power that makes you a Hero!

And talking about it, flight is his power, he was given the special genes, but he developed the power, that is his doing, it comes from his personality, so it is completely his power wink.gif

Nathan is The Flying Man that won't change... but dealing with what his parents did to him is something else, and all this angst is interesting, Nathan is one of the most compelling character, he is beautifully well written...

And although I am one of those who doesn't like "The Hunger" thing, and really hated the fact that Peter killed Future Nathan, I hardly think that the writers want to get rid of this relationship in favor of Sylar and Peter's... How could they, Nathan and Peter is considered by many as one of the cornerstone of the show. He is Peter brother, they grew up together, and they care for each other, Peter sees himself as a monster after what he did to Future Nathan, he was overwhelmed by "The Hunger" (And like I said I hate all that idea with "The Hunger"), and killing certainly one of the person he loves the most says how much overwhelmed he was.

And by the way, Sylar is Nathan's brother too, and I am looking forward to see his reaction to that too...
Disappointed
QUOTE
the writers want to get rid of this relationship in favor of Sylar and Peter's


This is exactly what I see happening. The writers even showed us that in the future, Peter and Sylar will become close and that Peter and Nathan will become enemies, so much so that Peter will try to murder his "brother".

QUOTE
Peter sees himself as a monster after what he did to Future Nathan


May I ask when did this happen exactly? In what scene? I never saw him feel sorry for what he did.

QUOTE
And by the way, Sylar is Nathan's brother too, and I am looking forward to see his reaction to that too.


I dread those scenes.
Synch
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 07:49 PM) *
Peter and Nathan will become enemies, so much so that Peter will try to murder his "brother".


Yeah... did you even watch the show? Seriously?

At what point did they indicate that F_Peter and F_Nathan were enemies?


Oh... that's right..

They didn't...
Disappointed
How do you call the person who tries to kill you? You're BFF? huh.gif
Alessandra
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 07:06 PM) *
How do you call the person who tries to kill you? You're BFF? huh.gif
Future Peter Did Not Kill Future Nathan... The Peter from the past took Sylar's ability, and then He killed Future Nathan.

And Future Nathan released his brother from the past. He must have trusted him, at least somewhat.
JimProfit
QUOTE
May I ask when did this happen exactly? In what scene? I never saw him feel sorry for what he did.


Well I guess it's a spoiler:

But Peter says to Sylar that he made him a monster by giving him his power in the Sprint Sneak Preview for next episode...
fernajen
QUOTE
May I ask when did this happen exactly? In what scene? I never saw him feel sorry for what he did.


Immediately after he does it he clearly feels guilty, it's seems to me that he comes to his senses and realizes what he has done. He looks horrified before the guards banging on the door. This is further solitified by the fact he teleports into level 5 and attacks Sylar, because he is seriously ticked off by the fact he has the hunger.
Alessandra
QUOTE (fernajen @ Oct 19 2008, 07:14 PM) *
Immediately after he does it he clearly feels guilty, it's seems to me that he comes to his senses and realizes what he has done. He looks horrified before the guards banging on the door. This is further solitified by the fact he teleports into level 5 and attacks Sylar, because he is seriously ticked off by the fact he has the hunger.
Exactly! (My point...)
Disappointed
QUOTE
Future Peter Did Not Kill Future Nathan... The Peter from the past took Sylar's ability, and then He killed Future Nathan.


I know that. It doesn't change the fact that Future Peter hated Future Nathan enough to go back to the past to kill him. I'm sorry but I don't call that love.



QUOTE
Well I guess it's a spoiler:


I guess we'll have to wait and see the scene. I still have my doubts he really feels sorry.

QUOTE
He looks horrified before the guards banging on the door.


Well to me he looked a bit scared to be caught by guards, but no way horrified by what he did.
Synch
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 08:30 PM) *
I know that. It doesn't change the fact that Future Peter hated Future Nathan enough to go back to the past to kill him.


Hate?

Where did you see hate?

I saw a willingness to sacrifice the only person he loved, because (as far as he knew) his reality came into existence the day Nathan "outed" their kind.

He didn't go back to kill Nathan because he hated Nathan.
Alessandra
QUOTE (Disappointed @ Oct 19 2008, 07:27 PM) *
I know that. It doesn't change the fact that Future Peter hated Future Nathan enough to go back to the past to kill him. I'm sorry but I don't call that love.
If Future Peter hated Nathan as you suggest :: Then why didn't he "finish the job"?

If I hated somebody enough to go back in time, and kill them I would make sure they stayed dead. Even Future Peter says that Nathan survived, and "doesn't have to die now"..

You have missunderstood Future Peter's motive for trying to kill Nathan. Hate doesn't even enter into the equation. He never hated his brother. He wanted to kill Nathan because Nathan's speech ruined the Future. Not because he hated Nathan.

... You Could argue that Peter Hated the Future that Nathan had created by telling the world. But even then there would Not be any evidence that Future Peter hated his brother.

One other question :: Why would Future Peter ask Nathan for forgiveness, if he hated him?

Edit ... We Must get back on topic --- We've gone too far off!
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