interesting how peter had to be taught sylar's power and then Sylar had to be taught Peter's Power..


what will this lead too?



i also think it's fair to say that sylar and peter are now evenly matched power wise.

Peter has always been a ****** with his powers. Now, Sylar is probably the strongest of them all except maybe Arthur.

I have a feeling that Sylar will discover that he can not only take powers but transfer them as well. When he took Elle's power he also took her "malfunctioning" away, she had control again and the pain was gone. That's not something we've seen before. I think it would be great if he could take powers from one person and give them to another. It would be a good way to give Peter back his powers.

It would be a plot twist of the ages if we learned that Arty, Pete, and Gabe all have the exact same ability, which is not empathic mimicry, but the ability to generate ANY power one can think of. Its just been empathic because he needs something to draw on to create such a power. Maybe they could be gods among men, and just make up powers for thier own personal use.

It could get completely rediculous like:

Gabe: "I create the power to manifest vortices. You disappear Pete."

*Shoom*

*Moosh*

Pete: "Well I just created a power that recalls one FROM the center of a vortex."

Arty: "I create the ability to manifest flying toast at you both. Eat your breakfast."


wow.. after writing that i realized that'd be a good flashback scene of them as kids... wierd...

even tho gabe was never with the petrellis in the first place. XD

Hopefully not to Sylar losing his powers too. I really thought the writers were going somewhere with the fact that Peter had "the hunger" but they simply took his powers away from him (which, IMO, is better for Peter's character, but still...)


If you read BTE Week 7, it seems Sylar does NOT have the ability to transfer powers and that HRG was misinformed when he said Sylar could.


When I read this I thought about how he also did it with Claire by taking away her ability to physically feel pain. Does that mean anything?

To say that Sylar physically took away Elle's pain and Claire's ability to feel pain is an assumption, at best. The way I saw it with Elle was that he gave her an outlet to release all of her pain by shocking him repeatedly and then he made her realize she was worth saving just like she had done for him in the past and having resolved her feelings and emotions got her power back in whack. The way I saw it with Claire was that Sylar just informed Claire that she couldn't feel pain because she had no nerve endings and this was some sort of progression of her power (possibly caused by whatever Kaito did to her to hide the catalyst for the formula in her). I don't think they even implied that Sylar physically took pain away through a power in either case. Sounds like a stretch to me.

I do not understand why people don't have the basic understanding of the work "transfer". I also don't know why, if not certain what a term means, one does not simple research it (open a dictionary) and help themselves to understand. That said...

TRANSFER = to cause to pass from one person to another, as thought, qualities, or power; transmit.

As such, Sylar/Gabriel has had the gift to transfer power from the beginning of the series. With his recent epiphany (using empathy like Peter) he now has the non-destructive ability to transfer power. To transfer does not mean that you remove, it just means that you move or cause to pass. There can be the sharing between the host/donor/transferee and the receiver/transferer.

Creator

Careful, they burn you at the stake for making that claim around here.

Ive been on that theory for a few weeks now.

Looking highly likely, though.

*shrugs*

Before last nights episode aired the writers mentioned that he cannot transfer abilities. He shows the same form of mimicry as Peter. Sure people on Heroes have shown similar abilities,... but not like this.

Both he and Peter maybe one in the same, Peters EM could have developed first due to the environment he worked in. He was a nurse and feeling for others is natural in the employment. Gabriel probably had the misfortune of being in one of Angela's dreams involving Arthur and himself. He is sent away and due to the whole watchmaker environment,.. maybe the constant ticking, his IA is developed.

Peter later could do the same as Gabriel, and maybe this is his way of getting back powers.

At the very least Peter and Gabriel have the same power

Put it this way its either they're lab rats like Tracey/Niki/Babara, twins, or its a one hell of a coincidence.

I do not understand why people don't have the basic understanding of the work "transfer". I also don't know why, if not certain what a term means, one does not simple research it (open a dictionary) and help themselves to understand. That said...

TRANSFER = to cause to pass from one person to another, as thought, qualities, or power; transmit.

As such, Sylar/Gabriel has had the gift to transfer power from the beginning of the series. With his recent epiphany (using empathy like Peter) he now has the non-destructive ability to transfer power. To transfer does not mean that you re-move, it just means that you move or cause to pass. There can be the sharing between the host/donor/transferee and the receiver/transferer.

Creator

C'mon he uses the same method as Peter. He connects through empathy.

Creator,... from BtE. I would spoiler tag it but the episode has aired.

Can Sylar transfer abilites, like HRG said: ‘The ability to transfer abilities from one vessel to another is very rare.’ ?

No, but he’s going to do something tonight a little different.

If Sylar does have the ability to "transfer" powers, maybe he is the real catalyst, and that's why Arthur wanted him and was willing to kill Peter.

OMG!!

Anyone else wondering if Sylar absorbed all of Arthur's powers (and Flint, Knox, and Tracy's) once he unlocked his empathy?

I think he needs more of an emotional connection with the person to "absorb" the powers. Sort of like Peter used to emotions to access the powers when he first discovered he could actually absorb powers. Maybe Claude will come in and have a training session with Gabriel

Arthur said that Sylar was going to work on his empathy and Peter is an empath so by connecting with Elle this ability may have been manifested or brought to the surface giving him an ability similar to Peter's.

Peter and Sylar are in fact "twins"/two sides to the same coin! This "coin" is the power aborption base power. The sides refer to the actual process/results of how the power is intially taken (ie, state of mind the taker is in at the time). I imagine that if Peter/Sylar master both sides fully and understand the base power itself overall, then they can do what Arthur does with it.

If power is taken while empathizing with "victim," taker absorbs just the capability of performing the power itself, but has to be taught from scratch like any other typical human skill such as walking/riding a bike.
(like Issac was while not in trace, tracing Hiro/Charlie in Season 1; slowing learning on your own)

If power is taken while the power mechanism (brain) is analysed (old fashion Sylar way), taker absorbs power along with the full understanding on how to use it since like a the watch scene in IABD, IA shows you how it is supposed to work. (Like Issac on Heroin, using his power/trance to fullest extent; a catalyst.) Thus the hunger/addiction to power as Authur said is created in IA. A rush of power, thus the need for more.

Thus, if pPeter continued with his Sylar style kill on FNathan in I Am Become Death, pPeter would have known how to fly super sonic like Nathan instead of just flying like West (Novice). That is aside from knowing more about how Nathan himself works as pPeter was saying at the time and how Sylar knew Claire was different.

Thats what I think also. Peter and Gabriel had different backgrounds. Peter led a priveleged life and later became a nurse, so this basic caring for other nutured the EM in him and left IA dormant.

Gabriel worked with clocks and the constant noise of them ticking,.. this nutured his IA and because of his sheltered life EM was left dormant.

They are both advanced versions of they're dad as they can absorb without touch. Also is Peter showing early signs that his IA is becoming more active due to his clever trick with the gas?

Well Claude has been known to throw the odd student off a building.

Arthur is worse throwing his sons in car crashes and persons with homicidal tendencies.

I doubt the Peter saving Claire scene was due to IA since that was supposedly taken by Arthur. Besides, it doesn't take much thought anyway to figure out what to do in that situation. Like Usutu said earlier, they were relying on their powers too much and didn't use their heads. Peter knew full well how Flint and Knox's powers work when he was in Jesse. He just had to be confident and fearless to negate Knox while distracting them from the gas leak, then just taunt Flint into shooting the fire. I admit, that is something I can see HRG doing as well if he didn't have a gun at the time.

wohoo, first post!

elegantly summed up.. i like your hypothesis.

Assuming Arthur is able to bestow/return powers:-

I've a sneaky feeling that Gabriel obtained his new found power-empathy ability from Mr Petrelli Snr. Witnessing Peter surviving the fall, I imagine Arthur realised he was to need more than his charms to control/use Gabriel (difficult if the prey is focused on an opportunity to stab you in the back).  Transfer an exciting power of empathic mimicry to a recovering power hungry addict and I believe there's a good chance this would keep attentions divided for the time being.    

I suspect it woud also serve towards fostering some form 'relationship' between the two (not father-son, rather a relationship one would surmise occuring between a student learning a new skill and a rich benefactor enabling the lessons).  

Accurate or not, I hope Peter gets his power back soon!

.. also realised that the clock ticking sound sequence occured as Arthur ushered Gabriel into Elle's cell.. unsure of significance and whether it supports my theory (which loosely hangs on power-return assumption)

You seen the promo pics for 'Our Father'?

I had trouble accepting Sylar learning this power suddenly through empathy.

He was established long ago to simply have intuitive aptitude. His power was merely to understand things, and taking people's powers by examining their brains was an extension of this.

Now suddenly he can copy a power simply by empathizing? That defies what his original power was. At best one could argue that empathizing allows him to intuitively understand the other person's power without examining their brain. But by that logic Peter should also have intuitive aptitude.

The only way it can make sense to me is if his power always was power mimicry and that intuitive aptitude was something he inadvertently learned from someone he empathized with.

I just think it's kind of a stretch no matter what and honestly it felt like something they decided on recently as opposed to something they had planned all along.

I've often wondered if the manifestation of powers was to do with nature or nurture. Part of the reason for this was that Peter and Sylar seemed to have a similar power which manifested in a different way due to their upbringing. For the nature side there is the fact that Mohinder injected himself with a formula based on samples of Mayas blood and yet he had a different power. From this I assumed that the power each person gets is pre-programed into their DNA and the formula can't change that. It's probably some dormant gene in everyone that is awoken in some to activate their powers naturally and is also activated by the formula.

Now we know that Peter and Sylar basically have the same power which manifested in a different way it does seem to be predestined what power each hero will have and the formula will be unable to change that. I do wonder if Arthur has the same power as well, he just chooses to copy abilities or take them away completely. The only reason for this is the mind powers he got from somewhere, could he have learned them from Maury but not taken them away?

This word 'transfer' does seem to be confusing people. By definition it means moving something from one place to another. So if you transfer a ball from your left hand to your right it no longer exists in your left hand but only in your right. If you transfer a power from one person to another then it no longer exists in the previous owner and now resides in its new owner. You can't transfer something and have two copies of it, that is duplication.

Somebody remind me: what the hell was the point of Peter needing Sylar's powers

To understand the effects of his actions, while trying to stop the bad future.

To see all the chaotic variables and find the best solution to stop the future destruction of Earth.

That is what FPeter was thinking but even Gabriel didn't give him his ability. Probably because it is the same power but different avenue for the user.

Now to avoid the Butterfly Effect FPeter recruits a past local to do it for him.

Like what FHiro did.

Unlike FHiro , FPeter does not plan thoroughly.

F_Hiro was a bit smarter than his future counterpart, as Hiro knew the effect his presence could cause and decided to deliver only a message. F_Peter goes Steven Seagal in the past.

I think her power problems ceased because she forgave herself, as Sylar suggested. Emotions cause havoc with powers - its been pretty well illustrated so far.

I really don't think the writers dwelled on the meaning of transfer when they said it, because Sylar's ability already doesn't conform to the definition of the word.

trans⋅fer   /v. trænsˈfɜr, ˈtrænsfər; n., adj. ˈtrænsfər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. trans-fur, trans-fer; n., adj. trans-fer] Show IPA Pronunciation
verb, -ferred, -fer⋅ring, noun, adjective
–verb (used with object) 1. to convey or remove from one place, person, etc., to another: He transferred the package from one hand to the other.
2. to cause to pass from one person to another, as thought, qualities, or power; transmit.
3. Law. to make over the possession or control of: to transfer a title to land.
4. to imprint, impress, or otherwise convey (a drawing, design, pattern, etc.) from one surface to another.
–verb (used without object) 5. to remove oneself from one place to another: to transfer from the New York office to London.
6. to withdraw from one school, college, or the like, and enter another: I transferred from Rutgers to Tulane.
7. to be moved from one place to another: to transfer to overseas duty.
8. to change by means of a transfer from one bus, train, or the like, to another.

Source (Dictionary)

The word transfer only deals with the passing on of the ability, not the duplication. It would only count as a transfer if Elle, or Claire for that matter, didn't still retain their abilities.

Therefore, since they're not going that route I don't think its wise to invest too much in the use of the word transfer.

See I have a problem with that bit of your theory, and it bothered me a bit when I was watching the episode. Previously Sylar has just 'known' how abilities worked before killing them. He knew exactly how Knox's ability worked in IABD, he told him so right before Knox killed his son.

Did he really say that? I missed that bit.

NO! Why do you do this to me! Now I know what happens! It may have only been a hint, but it wasn't a very subtle one!

LOL! Very eloquently put, Mr. GIBBY.

GIBBY,

...and your point is?

Creator



Corren,

While Gabriel unlocked his empathy, it was not until he 'touched' Elle that he transferred her power to himself. Has he touched the others yet?

Creator



GIBBY,

Elle was not cured and Gabriel didn't acquire Elle's power until they touched, I believe.

Creator

MrHeavySilence,

Peter needed Sylar's power of IA so that he might minimizie the "butterfly effects" while negotiating time travel in an effort to change past events and avoid the future destruction of the planet.

Creator

Dunc,

All you have proven in your response to me about the use of the word transfer is that you don't agree with the writer's use an appropriate use of the word transfer. You have chosen to add additional conditions by way of narrowing the defintion to agree with your limited viewpoint. Move does not mean remove (think "the transitive property" in mathematics or logic).

Creator

There's no need to call my viewpoint limited just because it doesn't cohere with yours. I have not added any conditions, I have quoted definitions from a dictionary.

You are correct that move does not mean remove, but if you move something it wouldn't still be where you moved it from, would it? That would be copy, or as said earlier, duplicate. And while we're on the subject, almost every single meaning listed under that dictionary I quoted says 'remove' and not 'move', so I still don't see your point.

At the end of the day it seems fairly obvious to me that Noah was studying Sylar's abilities and did not know the ability was being duplicated rather than transferred. Not that any of this matters, unless we're somehow in disagreement over what his ability is? He can duplicate other abilities, whether you want to call it that correctly, or transferred incorrectly, it really makes no difference.

Got a bit side-tracked though, didn't he?

First, technically HRG was right in saying Transfered, as at that point the person copied was killed in the transfer process. There was no living victum to determine if he copied or transfered at that point.

Second, Peter and Gabriel have 2 different powers of Empathy, if they were the same Fpeter would have just said, you need to learn how to use your power like Sylar, not "You need Sylar's power".

Empathy according to websters = the action of being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another

Intuition according to websters = the power or faculty of attaining to direct or indirect knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference

Mimicry = to imitate or to copy

Intuitve Empathy = through observation or touch (no establish method give by show, Sylar does both even touching the brains of his victum), one is able to understand and be senstive to the workings of said study and via empathy take what he learns onto oneself. ***this mean Gabe must learn about things he intends to copy. Pros = with intuition comes the how to manual on your powers, Con = Must STUDY object/person and The HUNGER***

Empathic Mimicry = through indirect experience of thoughts, feelings, and experience on is able to copy or imitate others. ***This means Peter automatically gains power without understanding. Pros = Able to copy with or without knowledge, Cons = no inherit understanding or knowledge of what is copied***

Hope this helps clear things up.

The HUNGER = the underlying need to fully understand, a natural human rational of wanting resolution. IT is augmented by the fact that one posesses the ability to instantly gain Insight via study, thus the Olde Phrase "Curiosity killed the Cat". The Hunger is the ever pursuit of the knowledge you seek, and the further one studies the more Inuition gives in return.

And Arthur.

I loved the way they did this. I see it as the Petrelli Power - the ability to use your personilty traits to acquire other powers.

So we have Peter "power of love" Petrelli: absorbs powers through his natural empthy,

Gabriel "knowledge is power" Petrelli: needs to understand powers to acquire them, but can now understand emotionally as well as intellectually

And Arthur "force of will" Petrelli: who discovered (?) that he could use his mind skills not just to read minds, imprint thoughts and control behaviour, but to actually force power transfer...


You could also say there are 3 elements to each: normal, powered and super-powered, although it's a bit unclear for Peter:

Gabriel: intellectual, Intuitive Apptitude, power acquisition
Arthur: authoritarian, Telepathy, power theft
Peter: loving, ???, power absorption

I believe the word you are looking for Peter is Empathic.

I would assume they all have the same power as Arthur knew that Sylar could gain powers via empathy. How could he know that? So that leads me to the conclusion that:

1. Different personality traits as mentioned above cause slightly different manifestations

2.Sylar obtained IA emphatically from someone else (his adopted father perhaps?)

3. The writers aren't thinking this storyline through properly!

Peace

the only problem i see with this is, clearly they are not the same type of empaths Arthur requires touch, Peter requires line of sight, and Sylar requires talking or head slicing. Just like in most species, while there is a simian race, they have many different subspecies. Sylar with his intuitive empathy can solve problems and gain insight into complex things, Arthur with his Telepathic Empathy can manipulate minds and rip out the source of powers, while peter can absorb without effort and without harm.

Like most sub species animals, their personality might be predisposition by thier powers themselves, syle being a sociapath becasue he knows everything, Arthur being cold and emotionless because he knows the truth in people by reading their inner thoughts, and Peter being so hopefull and emotion because he feels them all the time.

1 certainly.
2 possibly.
3 hardly.

or it could be like how i proposed in post #19 of this thread:

Peter and Sylar are in fact "twins"/two sides to the same coin! This "coin" is the power aborption base power. The sides refer to the actual process/results of how the power is intially taken (ie, state of mind the taker is in at the time). I imagine that if Peter/Sylar master both sides fully and understand the base power itself overall, then they can do what Arthur does with it.

If power is taken while empathizing with "victim," taker absorbs just the capability of performing the power itself, but has to be taught from scratch like any other typical human skill such as walking/riding a bike.
(Sylar had to be taught how to use Elle's power when he took it this way)

If power is taken while the power mechanism (brain) is analysed (old fashion Sylar way), taker absorbs power along with the full understanding on how to use it since like a the watch scene in IABD, IA shows you how it is supposed to work. (Sylar could use an ability to it's fullest practically immediately afterward with this method) Thus the hunger/addiction to power as Authur said is created in IA. A rush of power, thus the need for more.

Thus, if pPeter continued with his Sylar style kill on FNathan in I Am Become Death, pPeter would have known how to fly super sonic like Nathan instead of just flying like West (Novice). That is aside from knowing more about how Nathan himself works as pPeter was saying at the time and how Sylar knew Claire was different.

Nope! What I was saying is that Gabriel and Arthur both have power acquisition, and a basic power which is related to their personality, and related to their means of power acquistion.

Peter only apparently has a personality trait - his caring nature - and power acquisition. He doesn't seem to have a base power, like IA or telepathy, that bridges the gap between the two.

Make sense?

Empathy means being able to feel the emotions of the other party and being able to place yourself in their shoes.

Empathy itself is not a supernatural power. You see it in kind charitable people.

Empathy= As you say caring nature.

And yet, in the case of Heroes, Empathy is a clear power as well. It's what the name given to Peter's power is. Empathic Mimicry.

And I would say that Monday's episode made it fairly clear that it's a gift Sylar shares.

yes the normal use of it is Red,

But in Heroes, they are using Empathy as a power, one that allows the user to understand, feel, and experience the emotions, thoughts, and feelings of others via a supernatural sense.

When IRL we relate to people with empathy, as in hey i know how that feels, don't worry been there you'll get through
When in Heroes its more like, hey you hurt because your mom died...i can feel what your are feeling not just relate.