Ok, so I'll try to do this as non-confrontationally as I possibly can, and maybe it will just be completely ignored, or mocked, or whatever, but I'll try anyway.

While I realize that I'm just one person, and can't change the overwhelming current that the "let's hate Heroes" trend is (after all it's been gaining momentum for quite a while). I think people are being way too harsh on the show, and that while it's not exactly as good as it used to be, it's still a very good show. The problem is that now a large percentage of people who refer to themselves as fans of the show and actually take time from their day to go online and post their opinions about it, are just not willing to like the show at all. It's like the moment an episode comes out, the very first thought in everyone's head is "let's spot all the mistakes we can, and if we can't find any let's try to make some up not based on what they did, but on what they didn't do".

I mean, every single episode that comes out, the mindset from the get-go, is we're gonna hate it, then after it's over, OF COURSE you're going to hate it, you were ready to hate it from the moment it began! I sometimes go into forums like this one and I'm absolutely appalled by just how unwilling people are to even try to find how something in the series they didn't quite get makes sense, they don't even bother trying to make sense out of it, it's simply a plot hole, or an inconsistency, or the writers just being lazy. I mean, how can you expect them to give you a story in which EVERY SINGLE TINY MICROSCOPIC LITTLE DETAIL is explained to you exhaustively to the point of there not being a shred of doubt in the universe about how that worked, and still try to fit all the characters you supposedly like in a one-hour timeframe, and give each character or group of characters a story? it's absolutely impossible.

I know it might seem like a weird parallel, but I'm a Silent Hill fan and a devoted poster at Silent Hill Forum. Part of the great appeal of Silent Hill to its fans is that it doesn't spoon-feed you every explanation about everything that happens and why it happens. The game gives you hints, and you're supposed to figure it out, and it's more than half the fun of it. But with Heroes, I guess those people who call themselves "fans", those people who, as I stated before, take time from their lives to login and write comments about the show, which they could easily not do, just aren't willing to even bother trying to find an explanation for how one thing works, it's the exact opposite, they actually go to AMAZING lengths and exhaustive analysis to actually find an explanation for why it DOESN'T WORK. Does that make sense to you? I mean, if you're here, there's probably still a part of you that still loves the show, then why simply be closed-minded and absolutely unwilling to either accept the show for what it is without trying to constantly find cracks in it, or make cracks where there aren't so you can have something to complain about? It's mind-boggling to me.

I'm an architecture major and when it comes to creative arts there are millions of hits and misses, when I take one of my projects to my teachers they'll basically try to find everything that's wrong with it, all the stuff I should've thought about, but somehow despite my greatest analysis and work, I didn't, and sometimes they don't even come up with something until they've had a second look at it and suddenly they see wasted potential somewhere that they didn't see the first time, they're ruthless and can tear a project apart in seconds and leave you feeling completely worthless; but there's the usual teacher that while pointing out things that need work, actually tries to figure out what my intention was, and where I was heading with it, teachers like that one actually focus on what works and what can be exploited and made even better; and incredibly the second approach works better, because it does leave me feeling like there is a reason for me to keep making an effort. The point of this rant is that, putting out episode after episode and constantly hitting a wall of viewers that are absolutely unwilling to see the good in the episode and just go immediately "this sucks, full of plotholes, it makes no sense, the show is doomed, I'm not watching anymore, screw this!" without trying to actually find the genius behind it, instead of actually wanting to do better, will simply make them think it's not worth the effort and simply accept inevitable cancellation; while seeing a respectful fanbase that, while trying to point out possible inconsistencies tries to remain positive about the show, might actually make them more willing to make the show bigger and better.

Again, maybe people will just ignore this, or tell me I'm wrong, or just think I'm some moron trying to sway the unstoppable tide that the "it's cool to hate Heroes" trend is. But seriously, going back to what I've been saying, why would you take time from your day to go online and enter a Heroes forum to post your thoughts, when there's really nothing you like about the show anymore? I mean, I'm sure there are people here who really haven't posted one positive comment all season long, and it's just become their routine to hate the show just because. Why take time from your day to write about a show that you no longer like? Or, on the flipside, if you actually still like something about the show, why not post about the things you like about it while trying to discuss the things you didn't like or trying to discuss possible explanations for the things you didn't understand? There's a huge difference between "How is it possible that Isaac drew the future in 9th Wonders when the future has changed so many times?", and "This is so incoherent, it makes no sense, they've changed the future so it's stupid that Isaac could've drawn it. The writers are just lazy, I'm not watching this anymore." One incites discussion and possible theories, the other one is simply whining and closing yourself off to any possible explanation.

Thanks for the attention, I know it was a long post.

but what if there are the REAL FANS who actually watch the show w/o looking for flaws and still goes crazy, screaming at the t.v. and into the pillow before, during, and after watching the amazingly awesomest show in the world and goes looking throuugh forums to look through forums talking about flaws and tries to say something against those flaws, like me?...coz i actually thought this post was gonna talk about FLAWS from the show so that i can GO AGAINST the flaws and support the show LOL -__-

Amen to that brother

THANK you!

You are not the only one noticing this. It's like this massive bandwagon that everyone seems to have jumped on, lately. Yes, Heroes has it's flaws. But I've been seeing people screaming invective about plot points that they haven't even had a chance to delve into..First season, everyone was willing to go along and try and figure out why this or that was happening, but now...if it isn't painfully clear what they're planning to do IMMEDIATELY...it's a plot hole, or the writers are idiots, and this or that character would NEVER act that way and on and on...
I saw some of the responses people posted on Beeman's blog, and I was just mortified that people would have the gall to say some of those things. They insult the actors, the directors, and everyone who works damn HARD to bring us this show. It's far easier to tear down than build up, and never more have I seen it proven than on these boards, lately.

I think this season is going along just fine. There are character stories that I'm not as thrilled with as others, but the same was true for me in the first season. There are spots that are a bit rough in the series, I'll grant you...but this isn't Law and Order...this is Heroes, and there is no way they can scientifically explain everything in this show. You simply have to be willing to roll your eyes and accept how they're making the rules for the Heroes universe. No, it's unlikely that an Eclipse would affect their powers..but then, who's to say it wouldn't? We are speaking of SUPER POWERS, here? If you're willing to believe that genetically altering someone's DNA would allow them to break the physical laws and fly...why not?

It seems no one is willing to just enjoy the story anymore...The audience must be willing to listen and believe if even for a short while, if magic is to be made.

I think that there are a lot of people here who think that this season isn't doing anything wrong and that the critics and the millions of viewers who have stopped watching are idiots. I think that there are a lot of people here who want the show to return to its roots, or just get out of the hole it's dug for itself. And I think that these people will probably wage war on each other for all eternity (read: until the show is canceled), and that we would all be better off if these two camps would just keep busy whacking each other with their signs and leave the rest of us alone.

But seriously:

I don't think that criticizing something is proof of an underlying hatred of whatever you're examining, or even of a mindset that criticizes first and enjoys the show second. I believe that people can be discerning about Heroes while still rightfully calling themselves Heroes fans. It seems like your big beef is with people posting negative comments about this season on a Heroes message board - wasting their time, I guess you'd call it. Well, I think that airing your grievances is both natural and acceptable when a show that you love is tanking.

This is a Heroes message board; I don't think that there are more than a handful of people here who believe that it's cool to hate Heroes. And I don't think that there are a lot of people here who go into Monday night hoping to hate the episode, or having made up their mind to hate it, or whatever you like. When people criticize the show, it's probably because there's something about it they don't like, as opposed to all of us pointing out imaginary flaws just for the sake of hopping on the hatewagon.

Yep, I just made that word up.

Criticizing? No. Nothing wrong with it.

But there's a reason I and several others don't even waste out time posting in the discussion forums regularly. We can't stand the continuing hatred of the show. (And I mean that literally. They're not critiquing, they're hating.)

Again, though, this is a Heroes message board. Why would people who out-and-out hated the show be posting here at all? Unless you're cynical beyond belief, that's kind of backwards.

The way I see it, myself and everybody else who has brought or will bring a complaint against this season or the show in general, legitimate or otherwise, has been or will be branded a hater. We get tossed in with the trolls and the antagonists because we speak our minds. The audience is really divided right now - there are those who can find no fault with "Villains" and those who are really disappointed with the direction that this season has taken. So threads like these are made, telling all the haters to shut their mouths because they're just wasting their time. But people shouldn't have to refrain from getting their opinions out there just because of the tension that's characterizing the boards right now. (Note: I think they should have to refrain from doing so if they aren't fans of the show in some loose sense of the word, but like I said - and I think we probably disagree on a fundamental level here - there aren't too many people who fit into the category of 'not a fan' on this board.) Maybe they could be a little more tactful about how they phrase their displeasure, but hey, if you don't think they're tactful enough, it's fine that you just stay out of whatever section of the board you can't stand to be in. Pretty wise move, actually, to not post there. Prevents arguments and all that good stuff.

Threads like this that ask for "sanity" when what they're really after is a criticism-free board, though, I'm not cool with.

And yet it happens repeatedly. I'm not talking about people with criticisms. I'm talking about the people who come online (and, despite what you just said, there are many of them) for the sole purpose of tearing the show apart.

I'm not talking about people who have problems with plot points, or don't like developments, or even don't quit understand something. I'm not even talking about the people who don't like certain aspects of the show.

I'm talking about the people who come on for the sole purpose of complaining. They don't care that what they're complaining about is not worth complaining about. They don't even care that what they're complaining about is a non-issue- normally because it was either already answered (in many cases at some point in S1 or S2) or because it was quite obviously a cliff hanger and will be answered in a subsequent episode.)

The OP is not talking about people who have criticisms. The OP is, understandably, irritated by the hatred.

And as for the millions of fans deserting? That number is far smaller than it appears- as evidenced by the massive boost the show gets on the +7 ratings- which include the internet.

Well, sure enough, that fundamental disagreement I referenced in my last post popped up here. Hmm... I think that maybe, since I'm sympathetic to those who aren't happy with this volume, I tend to perceive a smaller percentage of negativity as "hate" than you do. Or maybe it's something else. Who knows?

One thing that I definitely don't think qualifies as hatred is asking a question about (or even complaining about) something that can be answered by viewing the first and/or second season. People forget things, y'know? Not everybody owns the first and second season on DVD, and not everybody's got an incredible memory. If somebody really rails against the show for some small detail, then yeah, that's lame. But I think that whether or not somebody's a hater has less to do with the content of their question and more to do with the way they go after the show. That can be tough to judge, though, especially over the internet.

And about the ratings - let's leave them out of this. I probably shouldn't have brought them up, my bad. (Because whenever somebody says that the show is losing viewers, there's always somebody at the ready who'll beat you with a big stick with the label "DVR+7" on the side...) Sorry, couldn't resist that parting shot.

Agreed. And I don't get mad at people who ask the question and accept the answer. (Especially when the proof is linked or provided them.)
The ones I get mad at are the "Well they should just explain it again and again for me and I don't believe you because I don't remember that" crowd. (And I've dealt with them on several different boards.)



lol
No problem, but I'm going to say one final thing about the ratings.

The standard ratings system no longer applies. There are too many different ways to view a show, and people no longer have to schedule their nights around a show they particularly love. That, from what I've seen, is where the largest drop off is coming. People who love the show but have a life. (Let's face it, when I can watch the show in one of a dozen different ways, at my convenience, and can do it without shelling a penny out of pocket other than my internet, wouldn't it be foolish of me to completely schedule my life around 1 hour of show on the television?)

That's where the Live +7 come in- and I would be astonished if the networks aren't all using a variation of it within the next couple years.

just because i post negative comments about the show doesn't mean i'm not a fan, and don't enjoy it overall
otherwise i wouldn't bother coming here, i'd just stop watching!
let's face it, it's far more fun to complain about the things you didn't like/made no sense than just go "ZOMG that episode kicked ******"

Spoken like a true prodigy, OP. I think all this negativity is complete and utter bull cupcakes. I can't remember seeing more positive reviews than negative reviews in each episode thread this season. In fact, there hasn't even been such case. We have people saying they were "broken" with last night's episode, and that they're going to leave. Then why not just leave already so you can turn this site into a haven for people who really appreciate what the writers are giving us? This season has been nothing but superb, yet people come here every week to bash the latest episode. You didn't like season 2 because of certain reasons, and now you don't like season 3 (which I think will be better than season 1 when it's over), then what the hell do you all want?

And people complaining about things they weren't complaining about earlier: Example: Complaining about Maya during s2's run and then complaining because she appeared to written off the show in Eris Quod Sum. That's bulls***. Same thing with Sylar and his role this season. That being said, now that you all know how I feel about the whole matter, you can see how the hatred and bashing clearly irritates me, especially if it goes on every week of this amazing season.

I guess my point isn't "if you have nothing nice to say then shut up", that would be enormously stupid of me to even ask. I'm not an kid in denial just plugging up my ears and refusing to see reality, I know the show is flawed, I know there are some things which could've been better explained or things that might annoy me. For example, if there's one thing about the show that has annoyed me quite a bit this season, it's been the way they bring in a particular plot point to just abandon it completely in two episodes, point in case: Peter acquiring the Hunger, when Arthur took his powers my thoughts were "that was it with the hunger?", but at the same time I was thrilled because they finally depowered Peter, which is something I've been praying for since the end of season 1, because to me a hero gets less interesting the more powerful he gets (which is why I find Superman boring as hell). But, my point is that, the sheer nastiness and absolute cynicism of the comments I read in forums about Heroes lately have completely erased any possible enjoyment in me going into forums. I like discussion, I like figuring things out, I like to read theories, and in season 1, while I didn't actively participate in any forums I LOVED reading the theories that came pouring out of forums, it made it so much fun, but now, go into any thread on this site... even when the thread isn't a complaint, but an honest question, the way it usually goes is:

1st post: "Why do you guys think Arthur doesn't have the hunger?"
2nd post: "Because the writers are lazy, and Tim Kring's too busy counting cash to bother checking on what the hell they're doing... I mean, seriously, this show's a joke lately"
3rd post: "Yeah, and Arthur sucks altogether, he's the most boring villain ever. I hope he dies soon."
4th post: "The whole show should just die soon, before they screw it up any further."

And it goes on, and on, and on, and on... I mean, the reason I joined 9th Wonders was because I thought if there was one forum online in which I might be able to go into and seriously discuss the show without such a negative environment it would be this one... but no luck.

Word!

Agreed 100% with alot of these posts. When you see threads like "Why did it take HRG so long to shoot" and the other thread complaining the medical reasoning behind Claire's recovery was incorrect, it just makes me not want to visit this board anymore (if been lurking since the middle of season 1) as its dampening my enjoyment reading all the hate. I remember watching every episode of this season, and coming on the board after, and thinking "wow, there is no way people could hate this episode, its amazing" (with the exception of 2 unimpressive episodes) and im disappointed with the negativity every time. I have no problems with people asking questions in regards to issues they don't understand, ive done it myself, but nitpicking every issue is idiotic. like others have said, its a show about super powered individuals (not exactly realistic here), so you cant expect all aspects of the show to be scientifically accurate. I think alot of the same questions and complaints could have been made about the first season (scientific problems, 'plot holes', unexplained issues), and I think this season has gone a long way in explaining some of the unexplained issues from Season 1 (meaning of the eclipse, issac's sketchbook, sylar's hunger and how his power works, arthur's 'death', along with many other things), which I think is really cool. I really think people are missing out on a great, well-thought out season because of all the over-analysis. It's funny, if people analyzed season 1 to the same degree as 3, the show wouldnt have made it this far. It just seems people for some reason, are now unable to suspend disbelief.

Plus for the people saying now that its cool to hate heroes, are 100% correct - check out the imdb heroes board for example...makes me sick..thats one thing i don't get about these boards, always people complaining after a 'bad' episode, that they are hanging up their Heroes hat, yet every week, its the same thing over and over. If you don't like, don't watch!

tl;dr

but yea i see how there are more and more people un-liking the show lol
even one of my friends doesn't like it anymore ;-; she always says the plot makes no sense and the story never goes anywhere blhablahblah oh wells

You are 100% correct. I thought this site was supposed to belong to people who enjoy Heroes, not hatewagon riders.

I think the biggest problem regarding the plot holes etc with heroes is that it hasn't set any rules, if you understand what I mean. Rules such as what time travelling does and it's impacts (multiverses etc), what the limits are of the powers (Claires blood, can Peter absorb the Haitians power). Obviously the show relies on mystery and secrets to get viewers, but it seems like they change their rules (if they exist) too much. Ihope that I explained myself clearly it's a bit hard to explain. Stargate for example had its rules regarding how you can use the stargate, hyperspace etc (and if they were bended it was always explained by scientific mumbo-jumbo, but it WAS explained and kinda seemed to make sense)!

Let us remember a good portion of 2nd season and then come back to 3rd season, the show is much much better this now! I whole heartedly agree that ppl are being much too harsh, and it's in part because of the media hyped "hate heroes" band wagon. Forget entertainment weekly forget complainers and look at all the people on these boards! We don't analyze scenes and dialogue because we dislike anything. Its been a regrouping year and I think it's gone pretty freakin well so far.

I have to agree with most of what has been said here. Some people come here, apparently, simply to spread there hate. One exemple I have is the "R.I.P. Elle" topic I created. Considering one great character is lost this week, I was thinking that such a topic would be good. Yet we saw some haters coming over saying "how stupid Sylar's portrayal was" and blablabla! I mean, that wasn't the subject at all, it was only for people to say how they would miss Elle and all that, but some found this to be a nice spot to hate!

Again, I don't mind questions, far from it! Actually, this show is all about wondering what just happened, and what will happen next. My problem is with those (and, like many said here, there is many of those guys around) who don't even ask the question and call for Plot Holes without even thinking for an explanation or, at least, wait for a few episodes for the explanation to jump at their face! One funny exemple was the famous Hiro's stab! How i remember people saying how this was so Out of Character for Hiro and stupid and all that! Yet, the next episode, everything is explained to them! Or Sylar's good-bad behavior, we notice that, as the show moves on, this is more of a struggle between his Hunger and his will to please other. Or Mohinder becoming a monster, it was said word-by-word this week that the monster, the beast, was already inside him. How the 9thWonders: How come there is still some since Isaac is dead, well, again, they said today that some were printed after his death (and, moreover, that those we saw today were the last one). Basically, every complain they had in the past had an explanation in a more recent episodes. Moreover, any complain they have right now, I can garantee there will be an answer later on. But haters don't wanna wait that long, nor do they want to think about a possible explanation, they just wanna hate!

It's nothing new! Any forum I go on, wether it's on a show or a video game or anything, there is always some haters. I guess it will always happen...

It's hard for me to bash something that's free. I spend a few hours a week enjoying the show / disussion and it's all free. People just like to complain about things these days, that's just how it goes.

With that said, it is frustrating sometimes with the way the shows are written. We all wish we were heard from time to time but the reality is that millions watch the show and millions have ideas on what would make the best plot or who should get the most on-screen time, etc. But it is free, so I can't complain.

Exactly. Any one of us could write a show that we would love. But what about the millions of others who have different ideas on what makes a good show?

Thank you! This is my hugest problem with the show as it currently stands. In Series 1, it felt like there were at least a set of ground rules within the Heroes-verse. Peter accesses his ability by 'feeling' how the original user is like, Claire heals only after taking an injury, Hiro can time travel but simply prefers to remain a viewer because of his experiences with Charlie. But now, it just feels like they are making the rules as they go along. Twisting and changing some rules is one thing, but completely rewriting them is another thing entirely.

I don't think this is a true statement. Some mistakes have been made. Some things won't be given an explanation. Behind the Eclipse has mentioned that they seem to make many continuity errors. I'm still waiting for the explanation about Nathan's 7 day beard.

There may be haters but there is also their polar opposite the blind love fanboys and girls. Sometimes people post a valid question or a mistake they may have spotted and are given a deluge of possible explanations that are rediculous. The TK vs. Phasing discussion last year was a good example. The blind lovers of the show will have 10 reasons why he had to TK vs. Phase into the vault. It is a ligitimate point to discuss. We get "It could have been dark in there, or maybe there wasn't any air, or maybe he was worried about materializing in a table inside or Peter always does what Adam said, he didn't have full control of his powers, the TK effect was better than the phasing effect." So, if you have an opinion that may question the writing of the show, there is really no point in bringing it up. There is nobody here to discuss it with. You're simply wrong for bringing it up. There answer to your question is smart and your question is stupid. If you post in the negative thread you will be attacked. There is no place for you here.

My advice is that if you don't want to read what the haters say then skip over it. If a hater posts something and nobody responds it goes to page 2 and is forgotten. There aren't that many haters of the show. Let them have their 5-10 comments and let the threads die.

I use to be one of those fans where I would just ignore the criticisms, but it's too much.

There are problems with the show this season. They have completely retconned a lot of things from season one and two and have made numerous plot and continuity errors. They've completely changed characters and the reasons behind their actions with absolutely no recollection of past developments and what not.

Something happens one episode, and then it's completely meaningless and undone the episode after it. We're getting crappy explanations for some things, and out right not getting anything for some. What the heck happened to the whole "world cracking open" or the Ando betraying Hiro that happened in the premiere episode?! That hasn't even been mentioned since episode three of this season?!

It's like the writers are purposefully just throwing everything that has already been established out the window and flying by the seat of their pants. The show is just an embarassing shell of it's former self.

And before you say "Why are you still here" or "You're not a real fan!" I am a real fan otherwise I wouldn't be making a post like this, I would have already changed the channel to a new show without batting an eyelash. I'm making this post because I want them to fix what they messed up and I'm holding out hope that it will rebound.

It just sucks that it had to come to this.

Where and when?


Which characters?


When?


You're right. It hasn't.
Ever think that maybe there's a reason for that? There doesn't need to be an explanation for it. The abilities are going to destroy the world. Is it a literal split? Does it matter?
Ando is going to betray Hiro. It's going to happen. Probably because Ando chooses Pinehearst.
We're not going to know why it happens until the moment comes for it to happen.


Again... when, exactly, are they doing this?

These are the posts I'm talking about. Lots of flame, but no fuel. Lots of vitriol, but nothing substantive. Give me examples, not just hot air.

The answer is that neither thing will ever happen because the timeline will be changed, just has in season one. I'm hoping for another explanation though.

So you want Hiro to continue referencing what he saw in the future? And then what? Wait for other people to criticize that? It happened in the future, so we're not going to see it for a while, if it does end up happening.

Look, I looked for explanations to calm the naysayers as well, but I've come to point where I myself can't even do that anymore. I finally realized that I had been forcing myself to like what was happening this season because I was such a hardcore fan, that I brushed over the apparent flaws everyone was talking about.

Lets starts with characters:

Mohinder: MoMo has been naive since the very first season, that's nothing new. What I take issue with is the fact that it was never even explained WHY he would inject himself with the formula. I kept telling myself it was because he always wanted to be special, but the writers didn't even touch pr expand upon that in the least to give the storyline some depth. They just had him inject himself with no hesitation and that's that.

Peter: They have no clue what to do with Peter. For the second time in three seasons they have hit the reset button with him. First in season two with him having amnesia and having to redisover his powers, now him getting his powers taken away only to start back from scratch again. Why are still refusing to let Peter reach his full potential?! And then what the heck was the point of gaining Sylar's IA in the future only for it to be taken away about 4 episodes later?!? What was the point?! And then him trying to kill Nathan and Angela, come on. No.

Hiro: The character that has absolutely shown not one ounce of growth since the end of season one. It's still the same immature, childish Hiro. I'm tired of the Hiro and Ando happy time adventures? What did he learn from his fathers death?! What did he take away from the little trip through the past with him in season two!?! Apparently nothing according to this season. Mind-wiping him back to a 10-year-old so he has to rediscover himself? I though we already did that with Peter in season two?! Come on, why on Earth have they not even hinted or started him on the path to Future Hiro?! And the whole opening the vault thing just to have another adventure horrible writing.

Claire: I thought they had finally hit the mark with Claire at the end of season two and squashed the whole teen angst between her and Noah. Why are we still rehashing this angsty crap between her and Noah?!? It's become completely repetitive and obnoxious. I like that they are trying to toughen her up, but come on. Squash the freak'in beef already!

Sylar: I truly did like the redemption arc they were going for with Sylar this season although it was very sudden, but then they completely washed it away on Monday's episode making the entire arc pointless. What the heck dude? What was the point of him facing his past sins if it was all moot in less then two minutes?! And then the forced story with continuity issues from episode eight and is backstory. It's like they are just forcing storylines for him just to keep the character on the show. They should have just let him die after season one.

Maya: There is no excuse for the crappy way they treated this character? You're telling me, after how important she apparently was in season two they couldn't come up with something for her other then beign mohinder's play thing then getting cured and carted off only to appear about 4 episodes later for 2.5 seconds?!

There's more but I've got to go right now.

I'm not a pre-cog or anything but I'll bet you money that a condescending member is going to bullet point each one of your statements with a reason you are not right, forgetting the fact that this is your opinion and you have every right to feel this way. I agree with most of what you said, but as far as character growth, no matter how you look at it all three years of the show only cover about six or seven months of their lives. (Not counting the flashback episodes). Not many people can change that fast.

Sylar: I hate Heroes...

I'm just going to do this one, because it's the only one that glared out at me.

They did explain it. In the first episode.

He was tired of being helpless, while all these people around him were so powerful, like Sylar. The man who killed his father. Like he said, if he'd had powers, he could have done something to stop him. But powerless, he was nothing.

Oh, and as for the Maya one, I'd guess they decided to get rid of her after seeing how much fans hated her.

This is the only one I'm going to reply to right now. I may grab one of the others later, but I've been over them elsewhere.

After Maya's story was destroyed by the writer's strike, they didn't really have any clue what to do with her. I think that's why she's essentially been written out this season. She served a major purpose in the plot that the strike ruined.

Then why say she's a main character? I mean, if your plan for the character is to get rid of her as soon as possible, you don't pick her to be one of the 12 characters who are supposedly more important than the rest.

Also, she's still alive, and if anything they seem to be implying that she's going to come back soon.

Why does a character have to die to be written off? I actually found it kind of refreshing for a show to drop a character with a relatively "happy" ending that didn't get them killed.

I agree, but considering they keep mentioning her, you can't really say she's been written off yet. It just seems like she has an incrediblely limited role.

They keep mentioning Charlie as well. Yet she was written off in S1

Listen guys, a person lists what they don't like about the show and that's all it is. A list of what they don't like about it. My dad, who is a major sci-fi guy stopped watching Heroes. He has some reasons that are valid to him. Your reasons as to why the person above is wrong is irrelevant. People can give you a long reason why they hate Will Smith movies and if you're a Will Smith fan you aren't going to get anywhere telling them why his movies are great. I know this is a Heroes fan board but the haters are disappointed fans. You may not agree with their disappointment and they may not agree with you. Two people go to the first Spider-man movie. One loves it and one is terribly disappointed. Let the disappointed person express their opinion.

They do? I thought that, apart from that picture of the drawing Isaac did, they haven't mentioned her at all this season.

Anyway, my main point was that, well, she reappeared in the latest episode. And other things seem to be pointing towards her coming back as well.

But when someone says, like it's a fact, that the writers have ignored something that they did in fact address, then it's not an opinion. It's an incorrect fact.

Bleeeh I got sucked back into this thread. =p

So regardless of who's a hater and who's just a disappointed fan, with threads like these popping up and so many people echoing the sentiments found in the original post, I don't know if it's safe to say anything negative about the show anymore. That divide I talked about - the two camps that have formed as a result of the show being under attack recently - is causing those who think that the show is still doing just fine to practically defend it with their life. Whether you're bashing it like there's no tomorrow or just saying something like, "I don't like what they're doing with _____'s character this season," somebody will be there to tell you that you're wrong.

Talking over message boards entails posting and waiting for a reply. This creates a situation in which the guy who gets in the last word "wins" the argument, debate or discussion, take your pick of terms. So if somebody says that they dislike what the writers are doing with such-and-such a plotline, someone else will be there to say that what the writers are doing is fine. And if the first guy gets into specifics, the second guy will take each point and "counter" it. As long as the second guy keeps coming back whenever the first guy says that there's something that he doesn't like, the first guy is just a "hater."

Lately, people who feel like expressing their opinions without being called haters or negative nancies have been responding by calling these defenders of the show "fanboys" or "blind." You can kind of see it on the boards if you're looking for it - a line is being drawn between those who won't admit to any of the show's faults and those who are willing or even eager to discuss them. It's not exactly healthy. And those of us who want to discuss what we think could be done more efficiently get left out in the cold, because those who are pretty pleased with this season are afraid to talk about it without simply dismissing that kind of thinking as either nonsense or just not worth thinking about.

For me, the real "call to sanity" would be a point-by-point plan going something like this:

- It's okay to admit/believe that this season isn't always firing on all cylinders.
- It's okay to admit/believe that this season is the best yet.
- It's okay to mention the ratings and the bad press without everybody going into a frenzy.
- It's okay to express your appreciation for the this season without getting a lecture about how far it's slipped.
- It's okay to express your dissatisfaction with this season without getting a lecture about you're ungrateful.
- It's okay to think that the writers "should have done it this way, instead."
- It's okay to think that the writers have been spot-on this season.

If you're talking about the Mohinder injection it's still the guys opinion they didn't address it enough for him. Personally I would rather him at least inject a monkey or rat first. Wasn't he like a college chemistry teacher in India? You say he did it to get superpowers because he was tired of being helpless but he still had no idea what would happen when he injected himself. I agree it's been explained but obviously not enough for someone else's taste. That doesn't mean it's an incorrect fact.

Actually, it was an incorrect fact. If he meant that they didn't explain it enough for him, that's what he should have said.

Instead, he said it was unexplained.

I'm picturing the Earth with a Godsend logo in the middle. Lines are being drawn, sides are taken. Maybe the show is a metaphor for the show. The writer's are geniuses.

But dude, which side is which? LOL @ how the current fan drama is mirroring the conflict within the series.

The fanboys are on Arthur's side because they think they are right when the obviously aren't. The haters are on stupid Peter's side.

Heh. I thought about that whole theme while I was typing up my earlier post, too, but I didn't have the image of the earth being split in two by a godsend helix thing in my head. My mental image was more like a bunch of guys in Heroes T-shirts on one side of a line drawn in the dirt, and a bunch of guys in everyday clothing (or "Lost" T-shirts) on the other side. Both sides are carrying pitchforks, torches, rope, etc. One guy has a gun. And horn-rimmed glasses.

What offends me is that you can't defend the show, ever, without being called, at best, a fanboy. Apparently attacking plot points and character development is perfectly fine though.

You obviously can't put yourself in the shoes of the at best "haters". They're not attacking anything. They are saying how it looks to them. In his opinion the writers didn't explain Mohinder enough.

I don't do a lot of posting, but I have always enjoyed reading others opinions and feelings (for the most part). It is a shame that a line has been drawn and sides are being taken. Similar to life..some people view things one way and some view them another. Like others have said, the fact that people are this passionate about a show says a lot. For people that love every second, to people that "nitpick", we all have strong feelings.

However, I completely understand where the OP is coming from. It seems that the problem is not with the "negativity" itself, but more so the quickness in which it comes. With a show like this, I think (just me...not speaking for others) that it is best to hold off on knee jerk reactions for at least a few episodes. In some cases, I have decided to wait a few volumes to see how something plays out. Example: I have been waiting (and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting) for something to come of that scene at the end of Season 2 in the vault. I have wondered what the different items in the vault were. Why were they in there? What did they mean? Unfortunately, those questions have not been answered. Now, since I intend on staying with the show, I decided that I would just wait and see if it is ever addressed. If it is never mentioned again, I will then say that they dropped the ball with that issue. However..one mistake does not undo what has been a great ride.

I respect everyone's opinion and encourage each fan to pick apart as much as you want. My only suggestion is that we show just a tiny bit of patience, because sometimes we get our answers. Just not always on our terms.