I know Sylar is suppose to be this powerful person, but Doyle has one hell of a power too. What did Sylar do to him? His powers are Telekinisis, Sound Manipulation, Lie Detector, the power he got from that British lady (which he has yet to use), Lightning, and Regeneration (I might be missing some powers).

Sylar turned his head and made Doyle bleed out of his nose, like Doyle's power is not strong enough to control him, but none of Sylar's ability can overpower or resist Doyle's ability.

I just thought Doyle should have had the upperhand in that fight

Well my theory on this is Sylar's original ability, IA and TK.

I think he just understood how to resist the power and then used TK to cringe him or something.

I speculate that he focused his telekinesis on his brain somehow. created a feedback, like when matt attempts to use his app on peter. outside of that, ive got nothing.

It was like when The Haitian was trying to hold back Arthur's powers--he almost failed because Arthur was so powerful.

Doyle's power is really just a specialized version of telekinesis that only works on humans and has to be controlled as if the subject was a puppet. Sylar can do anything Doyle can do, more easily, and he can affect more than Doyle can.

It seemed to me that they were having a telekinetic fight, and Doyle's nosebleed came from him exerting himself. But in the end Sylar overpowered him and Doyle collapsed out of exhaustion.

or Sylar used his TK to move his own limbs while Doyle tried to stop him creating a standoff until the strongest won out...Doyle may have had good control over his own power but nobody has better control over powers than Sylar because he uses his IA to master them.

Doyles and Sylars abilities have nothing in common.

TK can nail you or hold you but can't make you use your own body parts or control them the way Doyles body controll does.

Actually Sylar shouldn't be able to break out except if he had either the haitians ability or matts.
However.. since it is the sylar show he had to win so... this is what we got from that.

Doyle tries, fails and thats it.

Doyle's power is using people's bodies like puppets. He could physically control Sylar's body but not his mind- same with Meredith who kept talking back until he clamped her mouth shut.

Sylar doesn't need control of his body to use his mental power TK. He points not because he has to but because it helps him focus or is merely habit. You don't have to run your finger over a page of print to read. A lot of people still do it.

I figured he concussed Doyle, fractured his skull or severed a blood vessel in his brain maybe. What else might cause epistaxis and unconsciousness/death?

I think Sylar used Telekinesis and somehow, maybe, gave him internal bleeding or something? Remember, he is able to control movement with his MIND.

Could be that air gun thing he picked up from the emo kid back when Elle was "dating" him

I know everyone is looking for an answer based upon ability, but really is a measure of will in which Sylar will not lose.

I used to think Sylar wouldn't stand a chance against Doyle. I guess Sylar is just more powerful than others, which is why he is able to resist most things (such as the Company's cells).

Sylar can control things with his mind, he doesn't need his hands to use TK and that is exactly what he did.



You really need to let go of your hate for Sylar

How about the Sylar understood how Doyle work and gain the ability himself and was able to break himself free because of that.

After that he can use any of his other abilities.

It DOES seem to be becoming the Sylar and his food show. The other characters only seem to exist as either food or temporary foils for Sylar.

The real question: did Sylar take Doyle's power? Or another one; did Sylar take Danny's power? Oh, I've found a better one; WHY DID ECHO NOT SAY A ****** WORD WHEN HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MOUTHY ONE

Honestly, that's the first thought I had too... but then I realized that it shouldn't have been that, because Sylar should have lost that power from season 2's happenings.

Obviously, TK is a mind power, he could have done any number of things to Doyle to kill him... Sylar doesn't need control of his limbs to use it.

I was quite surprised how easily Sylar beat Doyle, I was also quite amazed why sylar didn't take the power it would be a good one to have.

He lost all his Season 1 powers, including this one, except for telekinesis and his original "super intuition" power.


I agree that it was telekinesis, he did something to injure Doyle's brain.


And I think Sylar didn't get any of their powers. He didn't have time to 'slice and dice,' what with being preoccupied with Angela, Claire, Meredith and Noah.

I think alot of people forget that Telekinesis is a mental ability. You dont need your hands to perform TK, only your mind (i.e. Jean Gray from X-men etc.) They only use the hand motions on the show to dramatize the use of TK to make it more pleasing to the eye. So my theory is that he simply killed Doyle with TK, either snapping his neck or sumthin else lol.

Doyle got owned that's what happened. lol

My guess is that it was TK. Doyle can only control your body not your mind and all Sylar needs to use TK is his mind.

With that said, I thought Doyle was the only guy who stood a chance against Sylar. Guess not. lol

Who knows the *how*, there is no how on Heroes. The why is easy though. We know powers aren't 100% effective. Matt broke through the Haitian's power. Arthur did too. Peter resisted Matt's mind control. I always suspected that someone of sufficient strength or skill could break free from Sylar's TK hold without help from others. Sylar breaking free of Doyle's hold pretty much verifies my suspicion.

The whole "well he's using his mind" seems a bit silly to me, considering when we usually move stuff, it's with our mind...and I've always interpreted Doyle’s ability as being able to control the part of the brain which controls our movements. Not to mention stuff like the assignment tracker data analysis giving the highest value to cerebral, 75. And Doyle being able to stop people using their abilities, or make them use them when he wants to.

Also, it seemed more like Sylar was overpowering him mentally instead of physically. I mean...his nose started bleeding.

And really, at this point, Sylar has already been shown as a "powerful guy", even if it's in an area in which he'd normally need a power. Like whenever he's sneaking up on someone, it really seems like he can do it cus he has some power, but since he lost most of them due to the shanti virus, there's no longer that excuse, he's just plain better at it then he should be. This is just another way of making it seem like Sylar has no weaknesses.



What would make you think that? Sylar's physically makes someone unable to move. Doyle just makes them do what he wants, with no resistance.

Actually, Ingtar and Raekon hit the nail on the head. I see next season tanking unless Sylar shows up to save everyone from the government. I'm sure all those rabid Sylar fans would agree.

Sylar has always shown resistance to control ever since season 1, when he was able to resist a direct order from Eden. I guess it's somehow part of his IA.



We have also seen that willpower makes you able to withstand telepathy to a certain level (remember Angela and Matt in season 2). I think same goes for Doyle's control, which I guess is somehow telepathic.


Last but not least: Sylar doesn't have to move his limbs in order to use his telekinesis.

My take on it is similar to other posters in the thread. He used TK to knock his brain about a bit. Doyle didn't sound dead at the end of it though.

But that's not how Doyle's ability works. He controls what they do, not what their limbs do. I don't see why telekinesis should be any different from laser emission or pyrokinesis.

We actually don't know, how his powers work exactly, but I'm sure he's not able of total mind or thought control. So if Sylar can trigger his TK by will (which I think he does), he should be able to use it.

Like I said: I see no reason why telekinesis should be any different from laser emission or pyrokinesis. If Meredith could just activate her fire power, then why wouldn't she at least try to use it againist him in some way when he captured her? And in one of the graphic novels, we saw him activate a company agents own power to kill him. If he can force them to use their abilities, then he must be able to prevent them from using them as well.

I don't know if anyone saw this in the echo thread?



I would of loved a great mind battle.

We actually have never seen, if Meredith is able to user power without gesture - even when she lost control after the adrenaline rush the flames always came from her palms.

But I understand that this explanation may not be satisfying. Anyway, it still could have been Sylar's general resistance to control or his great willpower.

I don't know the GNs, BTW, so I can't take them into consideration. ^^


@ Damien: Oh, thank you! That's indeed sad, I also would have liked to see a longer battle between them. Even though I buy how Sylar could withstand the control, it would have been a lot more exciting if they had gone deeper into it, maybe making Sylar proove his cunning.

There is nothing "physical" about Sylar's power. Or are you suggesting that invisible yet tangible hands are holding people down? Nah... Sylar's intangible and invisible TK effects are the furthest from "physical" you can get.

But that doesn't matter. This show has shown us time and time again that powers are not absolute. With enough power or skill a person's powers can be overcome. I guarantee you, if the show goes on long enough, someone will break out of Sylar's TK hold out of sheer will power or strength.

Of course there's something physical about his power. How on earth does he move stuff otherwise?

I mean, of course it's not invisible hands or something like that, but it's like saying the wind isn't physical.



Willpower doesn't give you super strength, and even if it did, I think that episode 2 or 3 showed that super strength doesn't really do anything againist telekinesis.

Good to know.

I'm ****** that Echo had little to nothing when they built up a decent amount of hype from Going Postal.

Uh, magic? Telekinesis is a fantasy, just as The Force is.



The wind is air molecules physically moving. We know that. Telekinesis is not that. If it is physical you should be prepared to say just what in god's name it is. And while you are at it, is Doyle's power "physical" or not? Oh and keep in mind I was responding to this:

"Sylar's physically makes someone unable to move. Doyle just makes them do what he wants, with no resistance."

I fail to see any distinction whatsoever between what Sylar and Doyle can do. They both move things by magic powers.



Who limit strength to super strength? The show is far from consistent, but over the course of 3 seasons we can safely say that power is not absolute. Powers can be beat if enough effort or skill is there. To claim that Sylar's TK power is unbeatable in this way is quite foolish.

Merediths power seems to be channeled through her hands. Doyle doesn't let her point her hands in his direction. It seems he made the mistake of assuming Sylar had to channel his powers through his hands, as well. I wonder how many specials, besides Meredith and Claire, he has fought.

Of course, maybe Sylar used whatever power allows him to "hide in plain sight", snatch Angela quickly and soundlessly, from Claire, and manipulate power grids.

Yeah I hope most of the stuff makes it on the DVD for Season 3.

I find it funny that people are fighting over Sylar and Doyles powers. Does it really matter if they are physical, magical, or whatever? We have seen Sylar find weaknesses in other powers before, why must it be such a conundrum that he was able to understand, and counteract Doyles puppetering? We have seen powers fail all the time in this show because powers have limits, and some, like the Haitian and doyles have shown us those limits. Strong Heroes/Villains can fight back. Arthur, Matt, Peter, Sylar, ect have shown us this. Mentally strong people can resist mental powers. Whoda thunk?

It was already shown in the GN that Doyle is not only puppeteering physically.
He can let you activate/deactivate your powers as well (check the laser guy as example which doyle puts his power into motion).

Alone due to this you could think that sylar should had been unable to use his powers after doyle got him under his control so the only true explanation is that the regular had to win over the reccuring.

Most of all because if doyle wins over sylar then the story ends there and doyle would had killed sylar without hesitation at all.

Since this is something they couldn't let happen, they just put it so that sylar can't be controlled for more than a few seconds and thats it.. -.-

I just hoped they would had executed it differently so it makes more sense but oh well..

At least I got to see more of doyle and enjoy his creepiness and acting I enjoy so much.

Are you suggesting that Meredith, Claire and Sandra weren't in control of their own thoughts when the Doyle had them? Because I've always thought they were. And Sylar's TK is controlled with his mind.

If you're refering to the bank episode, all of the people had been let out of the bank by that time and there was nobody left to be scared to charge Knox's ability.

No, because Doyle can only control what people do, not what people think.

And yes, his TK is controled with his mind. Like most of my limbs are.



Knox's fellow captive (captives?) would be scared enough to increase his strength. To what extent, I don't know, but I think there's been some scenes where they show that he only needs a bit of fear to be pretty strong.

That's a fair point. I still think he used TK though. I don't think Doyle can shut his TK off.

It really doesnt matter if Doyle blocked Sylars TK (I think he did, because he had PuppetSylar for about 10-20 seconds, and Sylar couldnt do anything), because it has been shown that some mental powers can be broken through (like the Hatians, one of the strongest there is), so why is it hard to believe that a person with natural understanding of powers, and a strong mental pressence would be able to find a weakness in Doyles power, and exploit it to escape. I think the nosebleed showed that Doyle was using his ability as hard as he could (the same way the Haitian was with Arthur), but it just wasnt enough. Sylar and the majority of his Power are mentally based (same as Arthur), so is it a stretch to think that Sylar would be able to pull out the win? He might be a favorite, and he didnt "die" because he is a regular, yes, but that doesnt mean plot was sacrificed, and from what I heard, Doyle might be around still, so maybe we can see a longer fight between them, like we were supposed to.

I wouldn't like that option either to be honest, but it certainly would be preferable to Sylar outright overpowering Doyle.



None of Sylar's power are mentally based. Maybe IA is a little, but nowhere near to the extent that telepathy or Doyles must be. And power vs power(s) is a bit different than willpower vs power.

So I guess I'm saying yes, it's a bit of a strech to say Sylar could win, at least to me.



Some things were sacrificed however, like perhaps showing that Sylar isn't as powerful as he/we think he is. It would've been nice if we had some intresting uses or combinations of powers to show how one or a few people could beat him, even if they're at a disadvantage.

I agree with people who say Doyle can control at least to some extent the mind, not just the body, while it might not be full control (since his victims stay conscious and are able to talk back unless he shuts their mouth), he at least can hold their abilities back, otherwise Meredith could have incinerated him a long time ago. I think the point of the scene was that there was a struggle between Sylar and him, Doyle trying to control him and Sylar trying to break through the mind control... Sylar simply won.

As I keep repeating while being constantly ignored: simplest answers are usually correct.

He should have said "You think you can control ME?", using Jesse's power on the last word. He keeps getting all these cool, new offensive powers, but only ever uses TK.

Yeah I am always wondering why he never chooses to use the other powers he acquires I mean why did he take Bob Bishops, just so he can get rich later?

Care to explain why not?

Why would someone be able to telekinetically move everything except their own body?

You're telling me he could close all those windows and doors at once, subdue the lights, and chase people down, but not moved his own arm?

actually think of Doyle as a fine tuned body specific tk.

the strings of a puppeteer as opposed to tk's fat fingered hands.

Sylar made the FBI lady in S1 hold her own gun to her head, albeit clumsily.

He can of course make you move your own arm to somewhere but definately not the fine way doyle does because doyles ability goes through every single muscle of yours from the "smallest finger" to the "largest toe" while tk would move your arm/hand as a whole only without THAT much of control.

What mainly bothered me was that if you check the episode with doyle, meredith, sandra and claire, you will see that he had superior control by leaving meredith frozen like 1-2 rooms behind while stoping and moving sandra with him from the previous rooms before he takes care of claire.

As a sidenote: Meredith didn't had to use her hands to channel her ability as we know from the past (mini nova anyone?) and from the scene she exploded in the last episode (I know you will say she had no control but still...) but doyle seems to be able to prevent people from using their powers as well as also be able to make them use them (check the laser guy in the GN).

So Sylar actually shouldn't be able to use his tk except if doyle let him or he "break" through.

Of course he had to break through for the reasons I stated in my last posting so... We got what we got.