...but how the heck did they go forward in time?

Same way that Hiro does, just with more running.

did you never see the original Superman movie?

moving faster than the speed of light made her move THROUGH time, not nessicarily just back in time

Merged Posts: How did Daphne go back in time to collect Hiro and comes back?

With a really wild imagination one can sort of accept how Daphne might be able to go back in time by running really fast (assisted by Ando), but how did they collect Hiro from 16 years ago and then come back to the present?

If running faster will get you to go back time, how do you go into the future? by running really slow? by running towards a different direction?

This series is seriously messed up! At times people with power do the stupidest things and other times the they use their powers and behave in the strangest fashion, all these I consider real cheap shots to move the plot along, which by the way let me tell you the plot just doesn't make any sense at all!

The cheapest of all is to resort to use comic books written by an artist died two seasons ago to move the plot along.

And don't get me started on the African Isaac.

huazi

Yeah good points, they made some dumb writing paths and when they were forced to change them, it looks bad.

My take on Utsutu is that Ando knew where he was and when he was going to die so he had Daphne swing by Africa and pick him up on their way "back". But yeah, traveling forward in time, that is a big hole but most people won't notice. They should have used Hiro + little Hiro to get him back somehow, even over a few months if that's how long it took to train the little guy.

Well now that just doesn't make any sense...

Well, my guess would be that they mentioned in the episode that in order to break the space/time continuum and travel through time... you have to move faster than the speed of light. As long as Daphne can speed up past the speed of light... it doesn't matter if she's moving back through time or forward through time. She is breaking the space/time continuum either way. She doesn't have to move twice as fast to get back to the present. She just has to go a tiny bit further to make up for the time she was gone. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not making excuses... there was plenty in this episode to balk at.

Er, Ando was aplifying her power from the moment they left to the monent they got back.

I think its like this. She can run to any location in space in her current state. With the boost and moving faster then the speed of light thingy, she can then run to any location in time. *shrugs* it made sense in my head ()

Here's a thought. What if Daphne's power is a weak version of Hiro's. We saw him walk around in her wake in the first episode which could be interpreted as moving way faster that her. He's so fast she appears to be standing still. Amplifying her power raises her power to his. I'm not saying I believe what I just said but maybe that's what the writers hand in mind.

That theory and scene are 100% wrong...

I explained in greater detail in anoter post but heres the gist...

Going the speed of light, you age slower, the world around you seems to decay faster, technically you travel forward in time. (Although its not exactly time travel, don't want to get into the science of this...)

Thats why we see the light from stars that are long since dead..

Unless she found a blackhole with electrons luminating the event horizon and survived the gravitational force of being crushed, then she could only technically go forward in time...


I think Einstein, Kerr, And Hawkings might agree... (Look up black hole electrons and time travel theories...)

Yeah, the explained it just fine in the episode as far as I'm concerned. Going on what you just said, technically running really fast would take you FORWARD in time, not backwards. But think of time as a ribbon and we're a needle and thread being woven down the ribbon. If, according to Einstein, you can travel faster than the speed of light, you can break off of the thread, and be completley seperate from the ribbon and thread, and choose where to re-insert into the ribbon. It's not a matter of going forwards or backwards, its a matter of jumping totally out of time and then jumping back in.
Watch Back to the future part 2.
LOL

She traveled faster than the speed of light so she could travel through time...

Totally wrong... well, mostly wrong... I've explained this in two other threads, I'll wait for all three to be merged before I do it again...

The thing is.. to try and rationalize how she moved back and forth through time using actual scientific theories, facts, etc. from the world we know, in a show where they have impossible abilites that are beyond what we could ever prove with science... just doesn't make any sense. :P


I like discussing the plot as much as anyone... but if you get too deep into science... it really gets away from what the show is about.

I think the show wants it both ways and that's the problem. They get heavy into the scientific with the DNA, and formula and virus and then for the time travel and Nathan coming back from the dead they want us to not pay attention because it's only a show.

No, it's not totally wrong, but very far stretched. But it's fiction, after all so don't give the writers a hard time with this.

Moving faster than speed of light would enable you to move backwards in time, when travelling very long distances (we're talking about lightyears here, not just some meters or kilometres). Stephen Hawking explains this very well in his Brief History of Time.

However, travelling forwards ist not possible at all.


But guys: it's a superhero/ fantasy show. Don't take stuff like that too serious. We have flying people in that show, it will always be pseudo-science.

LOL

So... I understand that you have to suspend SOME belief in reality for a "sci fi" program like Heroes, but REALLLLLLLLLY? Ohhh man, I seriously can't believe that they went there and used that whole "let's run really fast and rip through the space time continuum like they did in that Superman movie".

I seriously wish they just made Ando a new Hiro. That would have been less cheesy.

This is Taken from another thread about this. If asked I will post links and explain it even further, for now here a a general breakdow...


Moving at the speed of light you travel foward in time, actually, you don't "time travel" but I don't have the time to post the whole inner workings of e=mc2 as it relates to this point but in short if you were able to move at or faster then the speed of light you stay the same "age" (Actually just age at a highly reduced rate) but the world around you degrades (at an even quicker rate..) i.e. you age slower while the world ages faster.. You do not tehnically time travel..

In order for you to travel to the past, which you theoreticly can't, you need a strong force of opposing gravitational fields , i.e. a singularity (blackhole) with electrons moving around the event horizons, since electrons have no mass but do have "charge" (Look up Kerr's theories as well as Einstien and Black Hole Electrons...) (Also as a sidebar look up "weak force")

This causes spacial time anomalies and disruptions of unstable natures...

Theoretically if you had two micro-singularities with electrons introduced at a stable distance from each other, it is possible that you could travel in time, but again, this is too long to break down...


If anything, Daphne and Ando should be dead due to the best part of the e=mc2 equation, the infinate mass! Actually, they'd be ok, but the moment they grabbed Hiro at that speed he'd be dead... (Arguably they should be too depending on what theory you read...)

It's like the difference between riding in a car going 100 mph and being hit by it... (in this case Daphne is the car and Ando is the passenger and the 100mph is light speed and Hiro is getting hit...)

The car going 100mph hits you with with the cars weight and the weight in terms of the car's weight, and the weight it aquires due to speed... The car isn't heavier, but the force it hits you with at 100mph is heavier then at 60mph... So at light speed Daphne and Ando are at infinite mass grabbing Hiro...


Last, I didn't bring science into it. They could have left it undefined and I'd have no problem, but being as time travel and physics is a hoby and love of mine, my head almost exploded by everything that happened in that scene based on how it was explained...

Guess what? It's still just a theory- we dont actually know what happens when you go faster than the speed of light and we cant test it yet.

So is it impossible for it to work this way? Nope- but you could also say that traveling the speed of light creates colorful candies. We dont know! You dont know! Hawkings doesn't know! No one really knows! If you really want she might be moving so fast shes might be shifting to another dimension filled with wormholes (another theory) traveling through them, and coming out at different points in time- all happening so fast she doesnt understand it herself. We are talking about something we cant prove or disprove so the possibilities are endless and we are just a bunch of people on the INTERWEB!

So until you can prove something even Hawking and Einstein couldnt, assume the writers have thought this through beyond thinking they just want a quick solution.

Sorry but none of the people on this forum surpass the understanding of those geniuses and even they don't really know. Even an educated guess is a guess.

It's not whether it would work if she ran fast but that she could stop precisely 16 years ago at 2 pm in Kaito's kitchen and then immediately come back to the precise moment she left. Did she run a little, stop and ask the date and time, run a little stop and ask the date and time, then ask where the Devereux building is and then head back stop and ask the date and time a bunch of more times? I can suspend the belief as to whether time travel by running fast is possible but the rest was silly. All Hiro had to do was go to his mother's funeral and hitch a ride with his season 2 self and father. I know, maybe she counted 5,840 sunrises and sunsets along the way.

Here is the proof of all things science in HEROES---

I hate to sound like a broken record, here, but it's painfully obvious that the writers do not think beyond the superficial for those topics which, in reality, do have a higher level of science behind them, specifically time travel and the medical issues in this show. However, one must continuously remember, that this is just a story, told by the writers, and they can tell it however they want, even disregarding, or glossing over the real physical issues that are so obviously in discontinuity. Let's not let this discussion point degrade into anything else than theory discussions, and keep it civil.

DocWho: that comic is very succinct.

Actually, its more then a Theory... Light Travels so fast that by time we see a star, it is already dead millions of years ago, to us...


If you want to go with the outdated theory of going faster then light = time travel, then look for info on tachyon particles wich ar theoretical particles that travel backwards in time...

As for e=mc2 being just a theory, its the key THEORY on how to make a nuclear bomb work, wich we have, thus a PROVEN theory in most aspects... Critical Mass is achieved by accelerating particles...

If Daphne runs that fast and grabs Hiro his arm would rip off... That is nitpicking and true, but don't quote Einstein and then say science shouldn't matter... Make up a scientist who has a voodoo theory on how time works..

Exactly, they just didn't get into the specifics cause that would've been an enormous mistake, it would've resulted in actual errors in logic, while leaving it just open to interpretation seems to be the right move. There's no specification to how the speed of light factor works in time travel, so it's a wild card, all it means is you travel through time, it doesn't mean you travel only backwards, you could travel forward. So saying this is an error by the writers is basically saying it's an error in EVERY FREAKIN' TIME TRAVEL MOVIE OR SERIES EVER MADE IN WHICH SPEED IS A FACTOR.

LMAO

Thats how I understand all superpowers in Heroes. (Thats not an insult I just don't question things like 'how can Nathan fly?' when I already know people can't fly. )

Exactly, people here are whining about how exactly the running real fast through time doesn't make sense when, there's a freakin' guy who can simply travel through time by just thinking about it!!

I think there were quite a few botches in this episode, this being a classic little-bit-of-knowledge-is-a-dangerous-thing botch.

The big problem isn't that the science was a bit off, it's the implications...

We here at 9th Wonders love Heroes, love talking about the characters and events and speculating on the plotlines. So I'd already seen people say "could Daphne travel back in time if she went fast enough?" and whaddya know, she can. But if the science isn't along generally sound lines, such speculation becomes redundant - we were already thinking that Daphne might be able to go back to Hiro, but how would Hiro get back?! Er... magic. It's almost a shark-jumping moment, although I think they might just get away with it. But it's disappointing.

The other problem is that the writers seem to be deliberately getting rid of multi-powered Heroes (Arthur and Sylar) and time travel (presumably cause they're plothole headaches), and so they take away Hiro's power... but then give us Andaphno! So, what will we get next season - Andaphno goes to the future and sees a disaster that the Heroes have to avert! Andaphno travels back and changes the present by changing the past! Andaphno goes back to observe and build up some crucial major character backstory! Either they've still got the problem of time travel being too powerful, or they'll have to kill off Daphers.

I don't use to post here, but this is just plain stupid. We see the light from stars that are long since dead because they're so far away that light takes decades to reach the earth, not because we travel forward in time. And electrons can't illuminate event horizons. They're not solid walls and the electrons would need an infinite force to resist the gravitational pull of the black hole. And not even in that case she would go forward in time.

If the writers wanted to use Einstein's theory of relativity, and they had kept reading, they could have noted that no matter or information can have superluminal relative velocities. Those velocities are reached when there's a space-time distortion, and even that doesn't justify time travel. I know it's a fictional tv show, but the writers shouldn't use real physic laws when they can't justify those things with them.

And I really doubt Parkman's relativity classes were that advanced so his teacher talked about superluminal velocities...

How about this? we dont know exactly how Daphnes power works, we dont know how Ando affected her, and we dont know for sure any of the "proven theories" about time travel. I can suspend disbelief enough to think that hey, that might work, the same way we suspend disbelief for time travel period. we have never time traveled, but some people here can suspend their disbelief to have 100% trust in theories that have not, and may not ever be proven. Dont act high and mighty when the thing you cling to as truth is just an unproven theory.

My understanding of Einstein's theory is that if you move fast enough time stands still, move even faster and time goes backwards.

So I'm with you. It made sense that Daphne could go back in time but she couldn't have been able to go forward. If they were going to pull this trick they should've just had Daphne bring a sample of the formula back with her so she could inject Hiro and he could've teleported them back to the future.

sounds like it was just another easy way out for the writers.

I don't mind that she can go forward and backwards in time by running fast. It's her accuracy that's my issue. I don't think Isaac's painting had the month, date and time of day on it, yet she shows up just when Hiro is going to be stabbed by his dad. And with Matt's simple explanation of how she went back in time one minute she is able to be so precise and then figure out how to come back to the right time as well.

It isnt more than a theory because it cant be proven until we can send an instrument to measure what changes faster than the speed of light. Light travels at the speed of light so starlight is not an example of proof. It's just speculation, rules in science get bent all the time- there's always exceptions to the rule and you know as much as I do on the absolute truth- nada. And its impossible to know, same goes for the writers so they went with one possibility so get over how it doesnt work for you in your own imagination.

If you want an explanation as to why Daphne doesnt rip apart people she grabs but can still probably use her power to punch someone at that speed she must have some way to dampen inertia and or reduce friction otherwise shed be a bleached skeleton by now. We explain that with Star Trek and the whole Warp Field thing- by grabbing someone she extends that field yada yada yada - im sure you get the point.

Not to mention the external forces acting on Daphne when she accelerates, stops and changes directions, not to mention the friction that must surely build up on her shoes when she goes so fast. Another question: If she is going faster than the speed of light, how can she see where she is going? If she accelerates faster than the light impulses can reach her retina-occipital lobe-motor pathway--legs pathway, how is it possible for her not to run into the first object she encounters??

Since I'm not seriously expecting any kind of answer, I just want to say that this post shows that there are so many physical impossibilities related to the powers, it seems a useless utilization of time trying to explain just how they are false. What might be a better usage of time and education is to turn the discussion towards explanations of how the theories work in reality so that those who watch the show, but don't have a real understanding of the physical aspect of it might learn something.

Or, you can keep arguing about how the writers keep missing the totally obvious implications of tachyon fields, bozon theory and the Planck mechanism (or some such thing )

Continue...

Duh, she just walks backwards.

Can you imagine if Mr. Ed had a blog- "i don't understand how they get that horse to talk" "well maybe it is more of a cyberkinetic connection with Wilbur's frontal lobe"



Give it a rest people and just enjoy the show.

I wish they would show a bunch of squashed bugs on her everytime she stops. That could be a way of depowering her character. She only runs when absolutely necessary because of the bugs.

It's not acting high and mighty, it's not wanting to be treated like a stupid who should be convinced by any technobabble some writer can make up. It's like wanting us to believe you can have an eclipse that can be seen in NYC, Costa Verde and Africa with the same intensity and during that long time. I can suspend disbelief, I love science fiction, but to the point when you start basing all your "fictional rules" in real world physics, and you do it wrong.

If they had said something like "Ok, she walks through time, we don't know why because we don't know how these powers work, but she can do it. Keep recharging her and get Hiro back", I would have been left more satisfied, because we really don't know how their powers work.

This is absolutely ridiculous, I can't believe people are willing to buy into the idea that a person can simply squint and travel in time and teleport anywhere in the world, but are actually SERIOUSLY thinking they have an arguing case saying a person can't run fast enough to go back and forwards in time. I mean, c´mon, it boggles the mind just the enormous lengths people will go to try to find errors and things to complain about in this show. Again, it's absolutely ridiculous.

You know, I read somewhere that Scientists have discovered that the birth of Christ would have had to have happened sometime in the summer, based on the "Christmas star" that appeared over Bethlehem. We all *know* he wasn't born December 25th... it's just the day we celebrate it. Why does Sceince have to butt it's nose into everything?

Why can't we just *believe* that Santa could actually get his fat behind into a 4 tonne sleigh and fly with his reindeer? Why can't we just *believe* that Sylar might have actually survived getting stabbed in the head AND being burned to a crisp to fight another day? Why can't we just *believe* that Daphnie can run really fast, backwards, through time? It's called Science FICTION for a reason. If it was based on actual fact, it would be called Science FACT, or just... reality tv or something.
If it bothers you so much, stop watching the damn show. Why does Science always have the last say? Why can't people have a little bit of faith now and then?

That's the point, the writers are trying to base it on actual fact, mentioning Einstein and relativity. I wouldn't have a problem if they just keep it Science FICTION as they do with the rest of the show.

And well, you can believe you're going to start levitating and flying but fact is, you're not. You can have faith but you can't ignore facts that Science gives you, that's why it usually has the last say.

My problem with Daph's time travel. Whether running faster then the speed of light makes you travel to the past or the future doesn't matter but it would not do both. So if it did make her go back then how my friends did they get back?

In the Superman movie when he flew one direction he went back in time and the other way forward. Think about it. When flying in an airplane you cross the international date line and lose or gain a day. If you could go around the earth twice in a second you would go back two days. You would gain days the other way. I want to know how she did it so precisely. The Lost in Time Isaac sketches didn't say Apirl 9, 1991 at 2 pm yet she arrived there on the dot and with Matt saying that one sentence about Einstein she figured out how to come back.

I wasn't proposing light time travels at all, I was proposing that it didn't, We see it from stars long since dead, because it progresses foward in time as everything else does, i.e. the light travels to us, the stars decay in a "linear" fashion... If I was saying speed of light time trave = false..

Faster then the speed of light even is false unless you include Tachyon particles which in my post I even mention are theoretical, but gravitational forces COULD be a way...

Also, as for the Electron comment, electrons don't "illuminate" the black holes THEMSELVES but the state of the light being frozen in the interim between the event horizon and the electrons making the event horizon "light up" which has been observed..

Kerr-Newman Black Hole:

The Kerr-Newman black hole is a solution to the Einstein equations for a black hole with charge and spin. The spin of a Kerr-Newman black hole has no exact counterpart in the classical world. The extreme time dilation required at the Photon capture region indicates that the electron gravitational field has a ring singularity. This ring singularity could be described as a closed loop vibrating string. Black hole theory predicts that a black hole with charge and spin will have magnetic moment equal to the charge times angular momentum divided by mass, which is equal to the Dirac electron magnetic moment. However, the correct result for the electron magnetic moment contains a small, but very precisely measured, correction from emission and re-absorption of virtual protons. A rotating black hole (Kerr black hole or Kerr-Newman black hole) is a black hole that possesses angular momentum. ... For other topics related to Einstein see Einstein (disambig) In physics, the Einstein field equation or the Einstein equation is a tensor equation in the theory of gravitation. ... In physics, the photon (from Greek φως, ph�s, meaning light) is the quantum of the electromagnetic field, for instance light. ... In general relativity the gravitational singularity at the centre of a rotating black hole (a Kerr black hole) is supposed to form a circle rather than a point. ... In physics, the magnetic moment of an object is a vector relating the aligning torque in a magnetic field experienced by the object to the field vector itself. ... In atomic physics, the magnetic dipole moment of an electron is involved in a variety of important atomic processes and effects. ... In atomic physics, the magnetic dipole moment of an electron is involved in a variety of important atomic processes and effects. ... In the description of the interaction between elementary particles in quantum field theory, a virtual particle is a temporary elementary particle, used to describe an intermediate stage in the interaction. ...


My original post was directed towards laymen and not 100% in depth or accurate to a fault, but since it appears that you know quite a bit about the subject, please message me and we will discuss this further as to not cloud board space, plus I like discussing the finer points of space-time...


As For:



I wasn't talking time travel, or speed of light as it relates to it, I was talking e=mc2 which is a PROVEN theory. Daphne moving that fast has aquired so much mass you could punch through the planet...

Also, to everyone saying I'm nit-picking, I admitted to it. They introduced science on a quasi-sci-fi show, its going to get the attention of people that know even a little about the topic...

Its easier to watch a man travel time and accept it then have them bring science into it and misuse it... It goes against the idea of having a sound scientific explination for the fans, when they go against the explination! They should have either invented a scientist and his theories, or just done it with little explination, I could accept either at the end of the day...

all right guys, let's not try to read too deeply into the "science" behind heroes. let's remember in the first season:

"teleportation, rapid tissue regeneration, levitation could be only a few gene codons away!" -Mohinder suresh

not gonna happen.

Oooo, so many good points!

I agree that the creators/writers are stepping out of the box in making a show that tries to explain the inexplicable, which to the casual fan is no problem - it can even be a great thing because to the amateur it sounds really cool and lends [at least the illusion of] credibility that isn't tried very often at all. In that respect it's fair to be upset with those who try to knock down such an impressive house of cards.

At the same time, it's fun to be able to utilize one's genius (to whatever degree) to analyze those explanations for faults; though it can be kind of a letdown even to those who do it, because on some level they want to believe in the extraordinary and are frustrated when someone seems to advertise it and then doesn't deliver.

My perspective? The writers have been sloppy too often throughout the show on a number of levels, though I still enjoy it and continue to hope that in the end it'll all make sense.



But I agree with the thread's author: how did Daphne go both ways when exceeding lightspeed only allows you to timetravel in one direction?

To answer the question on how Daphne managed to find Hiros temporal and spacial location when she traveled back, remember it doesn't necessarily mean it took her two seconds to go back in time and return, it could've taken her days and weeks in real time (meaning as far as she was concerned), then she just came back to the present just a few seconds after the time she left. We don't know what Daphne did from the moment she took off to the moment she came back in order to find Hiro.

Then let's add a scene with Ando saying "Are we there yet, are we there yet?" while they are stopping to find out when in time they are.