If Maury/Matt's Telepathy evolved...

"These things that we can do, it only begins at reading minds and then it becomes so much more."

Also the "fact" that Sylar has EM means to me that either EM is a separate ability from IA completely...

Or, that IA is really a "so much more" aka an evolution of the base power of EM. I don't remember Sylar stealing EM from anyone, as far as I remember; so if Sylar had EM all along, was it the basis for gaining IA? Did such an event of "learning how things work" by fixing watches help unlock the evolution of EM into IA? Has Sylar been repressing EM?

What do ya think?

Sounds like you got it. I agree with you thoroughly.

Sylar has both. IA and EM naturally in the Sylar's Abilities list thread most people think he's already absorbed Luke's power simply because he has empathy with Luke.

Also when Sylar urges Maya to control her power and she is able to keep from killing him. Her power changes. "I've seen powers evolve". He tells her. Ha, ha, ha.

Well, yes, I think Sylar is trying to evolve his powers anyway he can. And that powers apparently can evolve as we've now see with Matt.

But we know how damaged Sylar is morally, emotionally and psychically. So the question really becomes how much more dangerous he will become as a result of his ability to evolve and change powers. He longs for

For instance, his father Samson asked why he ran from the SWAT guys coming after them. "I could kill them with a thought," Sylar says. "So why didn't you?" Samson retorts.

My answer is because he has always lurked in the shadows, hunted and been a hunter. In doing so he can be more likely be taken down. So Sylar is not yet ready to become a warrior ala Magneto. Nor does he want to lose his anonymity. He might be gaining new powers at some point which might help with both.

What we now know is that both Sylar and Samson long for "real authority and real" social, economic, power.
He's never taken on something as daunting as a government, let alone, the US gov't. Never taken on real power. Not even NYC gov't. or local law enforcement. If he gets the right powers he would be able to acquire those powers of authority, status and economic that he hasn't had before.

But if he remains anonymous. Who would know he's Sylar the Great and Powerful? My theory is that Sylar's ego will ultimately undermine his desire for anonymity but I could be wrong.

But Sylar saying he could've killed the SWAT team with just a thought. If he was telling the truth. That in of itself is a chilling evolution of his power.

I think if you're posting this thread you have not seen, or have chosen to ignore:
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the Mule


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I agree the Hunger has been definitely explained to us as being connected to IA. But, again, in what way did Samson indicate he had IA? The only thing he shared was the ability to aquire abilities, he didn't show any of the insights or knowledge Gabriel has. I also have to disagree with the notion Sylar "must" have EM. I admit it was entertaining to think that was his core ability and that he eventually absorbed IA from the watchmaker, but we now know he inherited IA genetically from his father. The only way you could explain it would be that Gabriel manifested E.M. young enough to absorb IA from Samson before being sold, which was later activated when he took up watchmaking, yet after being sold, Gabriel lost the ability to connect emotionally with people, which shut his EM down to levels below even early S1 Peter... This seems dubious at best. I don't see why it's so hard to think that if IA is capable of letting him feel bumps on people's noodles and figure out how he must alter his thinking to reproduce an ability, then figuring out how personality and emotions drive an ability now that Mohinder has proven a link between extreme emotional states and manifestation is out of bounds. It just seems to be a logical progression of his core ability, like many others have experienced. The only question in that is how Arthur would possibly know he could do that. "Mr. I-Know-Everything-About-Other-People's-Powers-Even-If-They-Don't"
If someone else's post put you in position to have a thought or idea, acknowledge them! I didn't write this quote, but it has held true for centuries: "If someone can do it, I assure you it has already been done, again and again!"

What post are you talking about?

Arthur was head of The Company for years so he had access to all files so he would know everything he needed to about Sylar including all genetic or acquired abilities.

You say we know Sylar inherited IA from his father but then say how do we know Samson has IA?

IA is an intuitive understanding of how things work. In contrast to Sylar who understands mechanism and systems better than he understands people, Samson might be expressing his IA as an intuitive understanding of animal and human behavior. He might intuit, psychology, and animal biology as well. The fact that he's a taxidermist demonstrates a certain understanding of animals. He shows intuitive psychological insight into Sylar immediately. He understands immediately what Sylar wants, knows what his weaknesses are and how his mind operates. If anyone's son suddenly walked in the door who you had not seen since he was four, it doesn't follow they will be just like you and you would immediately know them like yourself.

The only way we know Sylar has EM because he demonstrated it with Elle. If he ever uses Luke's ability then we know for certain he does.

The writers Joe and Aron have differentiated IA from EM one as being intellectual, the other as being emotional. . Empathy/sympathy/compassion exist in a different part of the brain from intellectual understanding. So IA should not be EM.

But if the writers want IA and EM to be the same then it will be so. But so far I don't recall them saying they were.

For the people who are saying that IA is not EM I bring up this point. It is just basic logic, so I'm sure it will be understood.

Logic 101
All swans are white.
Conclusion: Just because a bird that looks like a swan but has black feathers, it can not be a swan because all swan are white.

The Heroes tie in is the same logic loop. By assumptions of (incorrect) definition IA and EM are different. Then IA and EM are different, when it is in fact just a different way to do the same thing.

It would be to say that Hiro's mom was not a healer because she kissed to bring healing about while Linderman just needed to touch his recipients with his hand. They both had the ability to heal. They are not different abilities just different ways to do the same thing.

But what about the hunger? That is a fundamental part of IA, but is completely absent from EM. They get the same results (copying a power), but use different methods as you pointed out. That doesn't make something the same. A knife can kill someone, a gun can kill someone. They achieve the same, but are different objects. You can however classify them both as weapons. It is here that they are similar.

IA and EM are different powers that fall under the same spectrum of abilities, Power absorption.

Exactly. In Peter's case (EM - before Volume 4 began) everything that was important to him was about giving of himself for others (going to Claire's high school to save her even though he saw that it would kill him). In Gabriel's/Sylar's case (IA) it was about getting everything for himself and didn't really care much about anyone else.

This is why Sylar suffers with "the hunger" and Peter didn't/doesn't.

Lets look at now though.
Currently Sylar is able to control himself a little better, controlling the hunger, since he had at least one successful usage of EM (with Elle). Sylar was tempted to kill Mr. Gray (the watchmaker) but decided not to. In the future Gabriel had little Noah he was concerned about. He was empathetic to his son's needs and could control his hungar even though he was tempted everyday to not.
Peter wanted to get Sylar's form IA because he was told by his future self that he had to do it to save the world. Peter's self absorbtion released the hunger. (I wanted it, I took it, YAY for me!) He was going to take Gabriel's power by force (something Peter had never done before).
Currently Peter is now looking out not only for others but for himself also. This is more than most likely why he needs to touch others to borrow their ability. Peter sees himself as flawed (fractured) now so he is only able to use one ability at a time now. I believe that Peter has it in himself to become a full EM again if he is able to only focus on others and not himself (Which I don't think will be easy since he has tasted self importance.)

I'd say no, his Intuitive Aptitude power itself hasn't "evolved". However, I'd say that his knowledge of it has.

We now know that he used the "empathy" aspect of his IA (as I see it) in Season One on Brian Davis to transfer Brian's telekinesis to himself... which is why he kept it when he lost all his other powers.

He actually used that first... before he started slicing heads open, studying brains and transferring powers that way. So that's always been a part of his IA, it's not an "evolution".

But he didn't know that he could "intuitively empathize" with EH's like that until Season 3.

But that was only because of the hunger, and it's what his father had. He was actually quite a nice person until Elle kept telling him how special that other dude was and he flipped.




I like that. I think that's what it should be called when he took Elle's power.

I always had the thought that maybe Sy inherited both EM and IA at different times from his family. Samson could have been born with EM and Martin could have been born with IA. Samson at a young age could have absorbed Martin's IA. Then Gabriel was born with EM and once Samson sold him to Martin and Gabriel started to watch Martin and learn how to be a watchmaker, he absorbed the IA.

The hunger, I think is a result of the pairing of EM and IA - like compatibility issues. I think that powers with their evolution work better in some combinations than others. Like with Matt's powers . . . you wouldn't think that painting the future and telepathy would work together, but the spirit walk allowed for him to gain that connection. Hiro ate the wacky paste too, but we didn't see him connect to that power like Matt did. So what I'm getting at is that IA is a "scientific" ability, but then when you stick it with EM an emotional/"faith" kind of power . . . they clash - producing the hunger. Peter didn't have this hunger until he took IA from Gabriel and if Martin had IA, it seemed like he didn't have the hunger because he didn't have EM.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks, so do I. But also when he took Brian Davis' power and maybe even Luke's power.

Some people say that he has EM or is some kind of "empath" (like Peter, I guess) and that he just "absorbed" IA from his Dad when he was younger. That this "empathy" is his real power, which is separate from IA.

I disagree with that, I don't see the "empathy" use of Gabriel's / Sylar's power transference as separate. I see it as another way of using his Intuitive Aptitude for power transference. He can "intuitively empathize" - intuit their emotions and whatnot - with EHs via his IA. Not too unlike how he can transfer power via studying and touching the brain, he can do the same this way.

You're completely, even blatantly, ignoring the point.

When Sylar uses IA, he has to fight the Hunger. Obvious right? Proves they're linked and have been since the beginning. (Another debate for another thread.)

When Sylar uses EM, he doesn't have the Hunger. Watch him in that scene with Elle again? No indication that he even considered, let alone fought, the Hunger. No ticking watches. No intent stare.

Your exercise in "logic" is futile. The only animal that looks like a duck is a duck. So when you have something that sounds like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, the reasonable hypothesis is that you're looking at a duck.

When you have something that acts like, sounds like, and looks like EM, the only reasonable hypothesis is that you're dealing with EM.

Yes, it may not be the precise same version of EM that Peter has, but it's still EM.

Is it an evolution of IA? Possible but unlikely. As mentioned before, the sound effects are completely different. (When Parkman uses an ability related to, but an evolution of, his Telepathy, there is a distinctly new but related sound effect used.)

Synch what are you suggesting then, that he has EM and absorbed IA? Or that he has both? I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that he can use IA to understand emotions and connect with someone rather than just examining the brain.

Thinking about it, there is obviously something else similar about IA and EM, the ability to actually change the DNA to match that of an ability. How on earth can Sylar gain an ability just by looking at a brain. On a genetic level something must surely change. Same as EM. Peter absorbs powers without realizing half the time, due to his personality etc, he doesn't need to know how the brain works. There must be something else at work when he connects to these people and remembers "how they make him feel". I think Sylar can do the same but by using IA to understand it at an emotional level, rather than it naturally occurring like Peter.

Snych,
How funny. You say I am blatantly wrong and then your explanation to why I am wrong is basically what I said. Strange. You must have misread what I posted. (posts #6 & #8 on this thread) Or maybe I am misreading yours. With that said, I agree with all your points above, especially about a duck being a duck no matter the feather color...

Samson did have The Hunger. "It's amazing how it comes right back, THAT DESIRE!" He says this after seeing Sylar's RCR ability. "I WANT THAT POWER!" cements the fact that he had/has The Hunger. I'm guessing he's the reason Angela has so much knowledge of said hunger.

So you're with me thinking the Petrellis may have known and known of Samson Gray and his Hunger?

I think that's most likely!

I agree.

I think the better question is: Who doesn't Angela (and formally Arthur) know about?

Mr.Muggles

Thank you for this post. To me the titles given to the two different powers are only Semantics. Yes Sylar is IA and Peter has EM but they both meet the same end, the adopted new power. And Sylar has never shown that his power has changed. Yes he got Elle's power without carving open her head, but it has never been stated that he needed to do that, he simply needed to understand how something works.....maybe by understanding that person...ala the connection to EM. Like I said it is simply semantics.

Rosie1980 - Your welcome. It made sense to me so I thought I'd pass it on.