So, discuss Angela's Weather manipulator sister here.

I thought that it was a nice tie in to the Petrelli family, and we got a explanation for the socks! lol.

Well, when I saw her hair and how she had those white streaks, the first thing I thought was how much she reminded me of Storm from X-Men.

awesome ability n i think she could be back next season

I don't know why, but I got so excited over the socks! It was refreshing to have some meaning behind what we once thought were insignificant details.

she should have had a big windsock out side her hidey place

I bet she's going to be next season's female villain.

how is that even relevant waiheke, you little man? i like to wear tall warm socks even when it starts to turn into summer and they make me as happy as angela was.

Very cool to get to meet Angela's sister here, and see the relationship Alice and Angela had had. It was quite interesting to see how much Angela's lie had affected Alice. Alice was severely traumatized by the event at Coyote Sands and stayed there for Angela! It's quite tragic how it all turned out. If Angela hadn't left, the whole event may have been avoided, but instead being separated Alice wound up causing a storm that seems to have led to the government people deciding to kill the specials being kept there. And Alice survived watching the horror, and spent almost 50 years of her life staying around essentially scavenging because Angela told her not to leave. Wow. It'd be hard to return to normal life after that, and to suddenly find out she was lied to. Craziness. It'd be interesting to find out more about what becomes of Alice next.

And I thought it was nice to finally have an answer about the socks. There's a really sentimental reason for Angela to steal socks. It's surprising when something that seemed so small back then has become something meaningful now. Pretty cool.

Great character indeed. Glad they left her fate open for more episodes.

Hi everyone, my first post!

I think it's crazy she stayed holed up out there for 50 years, all alone. It's sad, but she knew that Angela wasn't present during the big altercation so I would think she would have tried to find her, or at least that Angela would have dreamed about her still being alive a long time ago, being her sister and all. But I think if Alice returns it could be interesting to see how she puts her powers to use what with being so angry now, or if another hero like Peter, or even Sylar gains the weather ability from her somehow..

That is exactly what I was thinking when Angela told her that she lied and her face turned. It was a nice set up and it fits well in the comic book genre of family spurned seeking revenge for lost time and being alone.

I love this smiley. I just noticed it:

Alice told Angela that she had isolated herself for 2 reasons.
1. Angela told her to stay there (50 years ago). and
2. to protect the world from herself.

Alice was probably 12 to 14 years old (closer to 12 I would think) at the relocation camp. As a 12 year old she is too literal, overly dependent (don't ever leave me) and egocentric (not selfish). "Say good night Alice." to which Alice responds "Good night Alice". Very literal. She was punished for getting a "F" and in her fit brought a piece of hail that broke the windshield of the car. Alice is possibly autistic or some other learning disability. The point about Alice only bringing toys and a book instead of clothes. My asperger (autism) son did that once. Made for an expensive vacation when we had to go out and purchase 4 set of clothes. Why didn't Alice's sister or parents help Alice pack?

point: Alice even though fairly high functioning still had some type of learning disability that in the early 60's would not have been diagnosed.

I really love how Angela is a fan of George Burns and Gracy Allen. I thought that was such a cute thing about their relationship.

For the record, the "good night alice" thing was a joke. The way they both reacted when she said it indicated that to me.

Could be a family joke. But when you have the rest of the items I pointed out it becomes more than just a family joke.

(We have lots of family jokes at our house. I call our youngest son my "secret squirrel". We even made a little song. I know that he is not a squirrel, he knows he is not a squirrel but we still play around with it. It is something that bonds us in a strange way that is really unexplainable. With all that said, one time he was really hurt at school and I had to go get him. He was very upset. I put my forehead against his and quietly sang our secret squirrel song and it helped him feel loved and reminded him that I was there because I loved him.)

Actually, it's not a family joke. It's a real joke. At least 50 years old.

I have a son with autism also so I can see where you are going but I did not see that in her portrayal at all. I saw a trusting 12 year old sister who idolized her older sister and trusted that she would never hurt her. Alice had experience with Angela being able to dream the future and had no reason to not believe that she would be safe because Angela 'dreamed' it. The look on her face when Angela admitted that she lied showed 50 years of betrayal.

I think Angela was partially right. Alice stayed where she was (as she was told by Angela) and she was safe for 50 years.

I sometimes wonder if Alice did not stay there at all and was playing Angela all along. That she did not stay there for 50 years, but only dressed herself to look like it and was actually working with others that had an evil plot and were planning to exploit it now. Next season, Alice confirms this with the others she's working with and has a big laugh on how she really got one passed Angela and is ready to put the evil plot in motion. It's just a guess anyways.

ok. I believe you. (I'm not old enough to know that joke I guess.)

Say, Goodnight Gracie dates back to the 1930's, but most likely was known to the girls due to the popularity of the George Burns and Gracie Allen TV - and much like a lot of popular culture sayings STILL became jokes after the association had been forgotten, as it was only 1961, that would be only four years after the their TV show went off the air. The joke is much like "walk this way" - and then the person walks JUST like the other person.

Here is on the meaning of the saying in a google

It's been used on many other shows with the name "gracie" replaced with any other name, that's the saying - not to mention the many episodes of Tv shows from Will and Grace to The Gilmore Girls have used the saying in their titles.


I know people don't mean anything by it, but saying that Alice is slow, or has some kind of Learning Disability is insulting to those, like myself, who have learning disabilities. LD has nothing to do with that - dyslexia for example is a word proceesing issue.

If Alice had had an issue, any issue, It would have been talked about, that Angela was the older sister to a child like that. From a story POV and for that time peroid it is important.

It was a different time and a much more innocent time for children back then, 12 or 13 is not the 12 or 13 today - she was truly that beleving, and there are still people out there like that, but it's the time. But what people are forgetting, which has been noted here is there we're two reasons she stayed..

1. A person who see's the future and is the older sister she trusts and looks up to told her she would be safe there
2. She wanted to shield the world from her.

She would be a danger in a large city.

Yes, because it is Ando's face making baby Parkman smile

This post is quite long so don't feel like it must be read. Most items in this post are not about Heroes.



Thank you for the explanation. I've not viewed the two shows given as examples.


I absolutely never intended to insult anyone in any of my posts. Please forgive me if I did say anything insulting or in an insulting manor.
I have had much training working with Special Needs individuals including the United States Navy and Occupational Therapy offices. To do that I've had to take many college classes in psychology as well as abnormal psychology classes. I've also taken classes at college concerning special education. On top of all of that both my and my husbands families have more than our share of special needs individuals, as well as both our children. I have posted all this before. I have never been down on anyone with special needs. I actually get upset and frustrated with people who will not be supportive of anyone at all, let alone than those who need a little more consideration.

Your point about the show bringing it up if someone did have a special need though is probably not correct since most people, including the writters do not understand what special needs are or what qualifies someone in this area. Too few people really know what to look for unless they are in a job situation to do so. There are also many people who do not even know they have a special need until a child is properly diagnosed. (My spouse was over 40 years old before finding out about being on the Autism spectrum. Holding a good paying job but never socially able to completely fit in. It was a shock to say the least but still the same person. After finding out it has helped quite a bit.)

Autism is becoming epidemic. One new person every 8 minutes is being officially diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum somewhere in the US (the rate is similar other places in the world also). 1 out of every 150 people (adults and children). That is only one set of diagnosis. (There have been at least a few threads on this website dealing with Autism very sensitively.)

Back in the 60's (and sometimes even up till the middle 90's), many diagnosis known today were not understood then. It doesn't mean that people didn't have special needs back then, just that people didn't understand why some people needed a bit more attention. Thomas Jefferson is a good example of a historical figure with special needs but most do not think of him in that way. Jane Austin's book "Pride and Predjuce" is another good example. It was written at least 100 years before Hans Asperger or Leo Kanner's ideas were published(mid 40's). Mr. Darcy is the most obvious (Asperger) character in the book but their are at least 8 special need individuals in that one story alone. Many of us had read this story as required reading in high school yet wouldn't think to bring it up in a conversation about individuals with special needs. It just gets passed over though many are familiar with it (or have read it at the least once).

Young Alice Shaw had enough possible diagnosable traits to at least raise a red flag to look into it further. If a child like Alice (minus super abilities of course) were to come into my office I would feel compelled to begin looking toward Autism Spectrum or some type of LD with what I'd see concerning Alice. Ruling out what isn't there is just as important as noticing what is there or possibily there in a person.


Absolutely. I made this same point in my origional post. I agree 100% with everything in your above quote with the exception in italics. Yes, it was the time back in the 60's to be more trusting in general but that wasn't the only explanation concerning Alice.

I am not fussing at you. Also, no argument was ever intended.
Just stating my reasons and my qualifications so there wouldn't be any doubts about me.
I have stated it as my opinion and backed it up with facts from the episode stating why I've said what I said.

^

Hugs all round?

dcg

Thank you for you post. I too am not upset or frustated i just wanted to point it out, Thank you.

as for this:



This actually my main point, if the writers never in tented it, then it's not there. It's not apart of the story, its not anything the actors or writers are working with. I just want to agree to disagree, because you know a lot about your subject and in that area you are correct, but to say she trusted her sister and was young and scared because she was special just doesn't jive me at all. Now, if you're saying when she was older she emotionally stayed 13, then that's fine. I think perhaps I thought we we're only talking about the 1961 Alice, for I felt it was obvious that having no real contact with the outside world and after such a tramatic event, Alice Shaw was still 13 in her mind. In fact, I called it just by looking at the pictures of Diana.

Absolutely... huggy huggy.

Did anyone else feel like the casting choice for old Alice was wrong? Petrelli casting for the most part has been entirely on the money, and although Diana Scarwid did an amazing job, I feel like it would've been fitting what with her younger self bearing the likeness of the classic Petrelli image.

Angela is Petrelli by marriage. Alice is a Shaw. The change in eye color from the younger to the older Alice is odd though but besides that one point I'm happy with the casting. (My sister's eye color did change from blue to green when she was around 18 or 20 years old. We didn't see her hardly at all due to college schedules during that time but when we were able to sit down together it was surprising and obvious.) It is a larger jump from deep brown to blue with Alice.

I see the fact that Alice went from a brown-eyed brown-haired girl in the flashbacks to a blond hair and blue eyed woman in the present has been addressed. Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that and wondered what the hell was going on.

Ok, random question: Does anyone think that Alice could defeat Sylar? Or even subdue him long enough to get away? Or would she simply get ?

According to Beeman's blog, they simply liked both actresses - independently - and weren't too bothered that they looked nothing like each other. Which I think is sad considering how painstakingly the show has matched families and younger versions so far. (Little Sylar was just amazing).

It doesn't really matter the sisters are Shaws, not Petrellis. Both girls looked perfectly Petrelli in their younger versions.

... and why does my spell-check programme know "Petrellis", but not "Petrelli"?

I thought Alice's old hair was gray? It seemed like it could have been darker as a child whether or not the actress was actually an original brunette. Since the younger one was black and white and older in color, the eye color didn't bug me much, The fact that there was no consistency with the younger actress's hair being straight or curly bothered me more...