Seriously this is pretty much the first time I have been so disappointed in Heroes I got up during the episode.

I couldn't watch as Matt told Janice he wanted to try and work things out. I am all for a man being there for his child. Rock on that is commendable. But let's just all wash our brains out and forget that heart wrenching scene where he laid over Daphnes bed and watched her die. He worked so hard to make her love him. Janice was not a twinkle in his eye all those times he chased after the speedster. I'm sorry but it is bad writing when you completely forget the emotion you poured into a relationship.

A child does not fix everything and make people want to work it out. If anything it makes things harder and in real life most men would not just forget what happened. Dude Matt you didn't even know the kid was yours. She lied to you, hid your child from you, and slept with another man! Where is the dyslexic good hearted Matt from Season one?

So my question is, did this fit for you? Was the entire Daphne story just filler and Matt never loved her he just thought he had to because of his future vision?

Or is it more about the child? He thought she would have his child and that's why he cared about her and now Janice does have his child so he moves to her? <-- This is about the only one I can make my brain swallow but I'm still choking on it.

well, i guess you have a right to your opinion but i am glad that janice is back.

matt parkman never wanted janice to leave him. obviously, he never stopped loving her. you can tell this just by going back to season 2 and looking at that nightmare vision he had of her and the baby.

yeah, he had feelings for daphne and he probably is still hurting for daphne. but, that's just more reason for him to be acting the way he is right now. to lose someone you care about to violence and have that feeling of being alone. and then suddenly, he finds out he's a father, and that the mother of his child is actually willing to speak to him again.

you don't know their life before season 1 started.

maybe it took a crisis like this to make them both realize they never stopped loving each other.

The problem is its only been a couple weeks since she died. That just not emotionally realistic.

A couple weeks? I'd say a week and a few days at most, but still it wa really poor writing for him to not even mention or show his previous relationship with Daphne.

When I was younger my boyfriend died in a car crash. It was puppy love but at the time it was the realist thing I had known. It took me a year and a half to even think about another guy and I was only twelve. Not nearly an adult with adult emotions like love that is deeper and more intense then silly childhood love.

No matter what the emotion was you don't just get over losing someone. You would feel such guilt for even thinking about it. Especially after Daphne basically told him on her death bed that he still wanted his ex. Seriously I better see some heartfelt internal struggle or it is just not believable.

Granted yes he did love Janice it was obvious by him nearly being able to forgive her for cheating. But he left and he met someone else to whom he wrapped himself around and traveled around the country chasing after. I just feel like the entire Daphne story was unnecessary if this is where they were going with it. So she was a pawn to lead him back to Janice? If he would have just left her alone she might be alive but instead now she is just a useless female that had no purpose. He should feel guilty.

I could be premature with this. Next week could turn it around for me. But Matt better not just forget about that future, what he almost had with Daphne. I mean why in the heck did he get the vision. Can we just get rid of future Matt visions cause now they are useless.

When Matt and Janice were hugging I was hoping she would find a blond hair on his jacket.

Um, Matt - What's this.

the problem is that you are trying to impose your personal values on that of a character.

it might not be realistic to you, but you're not in their situation.

even if none of that were true, matt parkman has every reason to believe that he may die or never see janice or his baby again so maybe he is just saying the things he always wanted to say.

i think your "poor writing" excuse is weak at best.

That would be a humorous approach but better then nothing.




Not at all. Yes I did express a personal situation but honestly everyone who has dealt with death knows you dont forget about someone in that short of time. I would have been fine if he had not said I want to work things out Janice. If he had left it at I want to be in the babies life it would have been perfect. But no they led into him and Janice and it felt to soon and rushed.


Nope I am not but I am expressing my opinion on the situation. As you are yours. I found it unrealistic you did not.

Hmm kinda how he felt when he professed his love for Daphne days ago...



I said bad writing and it wasn't an excuse it was an opinion. That is if you were replying to me and not SuperT as you did not quote anyone so I am unsure. He said poor, I said bad. Just clarifying.

who said he forgot about daphne. LOL. you sure are making a lot of assumptions over the things he didn't say.

sorry if he didn't bring up to his wife and mother of his child that this woman who he was obsessed with just died on him a few days ago. there were people coming at them with guns and they had other pressing things on their mind at the moment.

LOL dude almost goes suicidal and you are talking down the one anchor he found to help him become a hero again.

i kinda feel that daphne's storyline was wasted... but not that wasted. i think she had a purpose somehow; to act as matt's cupid, to help him find his way back into love.

and for the record, matt and daphne's "relationship" was always in matt parkman's head. she did not want to be his girlfriend. he cowed her into that position after he had that crazy dream.

he even named her after his wife when she was put in the hospital! no, janice was never a "twinkle in his eye."

I did not want him to tell Janice that would have been worse but I am simply speaking of the fact of what he did say to Janice. That he wanted to work things out(or something to that effect I do not have the exact quote) with her.

I think the baby should have been that anchor. Not Janice.

Yes Matt was in her head as she died trying to support her because he cared for her. He chased after her. All this I have already said.

*sigh*

I have expressed my opinion and will leave it at that now. I can see what you mean by it being a stressful time and possibly why things seemed rushed. I respect your opinion of the situation thanks for offering an alternative view.

sorry dude. i didn't mean to sound so harsh. i get where you are coming from. it sounds like you want more respect for daphne and her memory.

that's cool. daphne was a great character. i don't think she is forgotten.

It's weird to be called dude.

Yes that is exactly what I was talking about. Did I not express that in the posts up there?

Maybe I need more coffee.

are you a woman.

Well if I was a man saying it was weird being called dude that would be even weirder. I am in fact a woman, yes. That just made me laugh. Probly goes along with that whole needing more coffee thing.

But that is off topic. Sorry bout that sidebar.

in a perfect world, daphne would be alive and free to do her own thing, and matt and janice would be back together.

personally, i think they have better chemistry in one scene than him and daphne had all season.

How does this make Matt the "new Nathan"? He's not exactly sleeping around just to get more notches on his belt.

I was more meaning forgetting about his past loves and moving on. He almost never mentioned Heidi again and went strait to the next chick. I wasn't talking about the physical parts...

I also didn't say it did make him the new Nathan, it was a question. I saw a similarity and was wondering if anyone else did.

I happen to agree with bhero2all, the emotion just wasn't there for me. I totally get why he wants to be a part of his son's life on so many different levels. In being a part of his son's life he also has to have some sort of relationship with his ex-wife. That doesn't mean lets start the whole thing from scratch, right here, right now. They may not have been the context of his comments, but most of my friends were thinking the same thing, what the hell happened to all the emotions he had for Daphne. She not even a second thought, third, hell fourth or fifth thought lol.

Just feels rushed and too soon to be thinking along those lines. This show has to get rooted back in the drama and real emotions, and what was portrayed tonight felt more like a scene from Days of Our Lives, yet worse.


I think Nathan has something for those triplets! 2 down 1 to go! LOL

O ok. I was just curious, thanx.

I agree with bhero. It just had a very, "Oh, hi Janice! I haven't seen you in months, but because we have a son, I love you" rushed feel to it. Yeah, he may have just been obsessed with Daphne, but he did have a connection with her. I'd imagine that he wouldn't just completely forget her and be able to immediately pick things back up so fast.

again.

fear of death + adrenaline + concern for loved ones makes people say and do some pretty crazy things.

True, but he also did a lot of flip-flopping. First he was like, "I want to stay with you, Janice." Then he was like, "No, wait, I have to go fight with Hiro and Ando." Then he was like, "No, we should go to your parents' summer home."

Eh, I dunno. I didn't really get his attitude in this episode.

Let's not forget that Matt was married to Janice for longer than he'd known Daphne. He did love Janice. She was the one that ruined the relationship by having an affair. That love is not just going to go away. Even after so much time passes. Even after other relationships.

I have a hard time believing Matt truly loved Daphne. Cared for? Yes, obviously. But, loved? Doubtful. I think he forced the issue based on his "vision" of the future.

Then, he sees Janice again and all those old emotions of love and caring probably came roaring back to the surface. Thus, he decides he wants Janice or maybe even that he's wanted Janice all along. It's a very realistic scenario, one I've actually seen a few times.

great thoughts, phillos. i was thinking along those same lines.

I, too, am troubled by the way Matt seems to have so quickly forgotten about Daphne and his past with Janice. However, how would this make him "the new Nathan"? If, say, Peter had died and Nathan was right back to his normal self two episodes later, then maybe so, but nothing of the sort has taken place.

Well, first off, I'm going to agree with bhero and say that the whole Matt/Janice thing has been way too easy up to this point. No angst/discussion over what happened between them, but I'm hoping that it was reserved till the next episode due to the agents storming the place.

Matt seems to have forgotten about Daphne and what future they could've had, but Daphne did point out that Matt still cared about Janice enough to use her as a cover, so his caring about Daphne is sort of questionable at this point (even though I prefer Matt/Daphne to Matt/Janice).

I would say that Matt/Janice seemed to get along too easily, especially after a divorce, but that would be a wishy-washy statement from me because of my experiences growing up.

Secondly, I disagree with bhero in that Matt is becoming the new Nathan. Matt doesn't have that type of personality, in my opinion. To me, Matt's always been searching for his "happily ever after" with that one special person, which is why he forced the issue with Daphne. He saw how happy they were in the future, and went after her since he (and I'm assuming here) was trying to fill the void left behind after he split with Janice.

And with that, I say bring back Audrey for Matt.

I don't think you're looking at it the same way I am.. I saw Matt's grief for Daphne transformed almost immediately into a thirst for revenge, hence his moving after Danko's girlfriend. At the end of that encounter, he was so despondent he was ready to die at Danko's hands. Hiro took him to meet his son and it completely transformed his entire focus and thinking process, something he, himself admitted. When he met Janice, all he said was it was nice to see her, he was certainly noncommital about everything involving the two of them EXCEPT the fact he loved Matty, and wanted to be involved with his baby's life. I think the interactions with Janice were just incidental, his focus was Matty. Maybe they can get to know each other as time passes, sure, but I didn't see anything except his protectiveness for Daphne transferred to his son. If anything, it brought up to me why he seemingly doesn't feel it for Molly anymore, something the entire 1st 2 seasons showed us.

it's a very believable way for him to act.

1. He's in is 30's and not a teen. He may have mourned for Daphne and felt a loss, but she wasn't his lady. He was basically TRYING to have relationship with her based on a precog vision walk.

2. He was in love and married to Janice. While she did betray him back in S1, they did try to work things out and when we came back to S2, they weren't together. So, there's probably something going on there that we have had glimpses of since then but don't have full knowledge of. Besides, the reason they could've gone their ways was because she thought he was a freak or crazy, or both.

3. (probably the MAIN reason) He doesn't want to be the type of father to his son that his father was to him. He want's to have his family together.

4. There is a such thing as running back to the familiar when tragedy happens. For some it's drugs, food, violence, etc... for him it's Janice.

5. We won't find out if Janice has a power if she's not in the show

I think that's a crucial point there.

Up until her death, I never felt Matt and Daphne had any chemistry. While he was chasing after her, he was extremely cute. As soon as he had her, he went from cute to patronizing. In the first ep of this volume, I thought their relationship looked extremely awkward. It was awkward from start to finish.

And then Daphne got this amazing sendoff, hands down the most beautiful I've ever seen on Heroes, and that changed the relationship for me in retrospect, although it really shouldn't have.

I felt the same way you did though. I wasn't happy with Daphne suddenly being forgotten, and thought his reunion with Janice was terribly rushed. But while Daphne was alive and well, she did seem like a filler to me. (Until she went from filler to Fuller.)

I'm not too surprised, Matt always seemed like the type of guy who gets caught up in the heat of the moment, not really thinking things through. From stealing the diamonds, to falling for Daphne merely because of a vision, to attacking Danko and his girlfriend in revenge, to jumping back to Janice after meeting his son. He also knows Janice much more than Daphne and seems to have always cared about her. In Cold Snap, he named Daphne after his ex-wife in the hospital, she even asks "are you just trying to fit me in your ex-wife's life?" or something to that effect. I think he was. Now, the opportunity to be with his wife and son emerges. I didn't think it was that rushed and it fits his character.

While it does seem a bit wrong to me for Matt to move on so quickly after Daphne's death, things are a bit more complicated then that, and Matt's behavior made sense to me.

First of all, this wasn't just some new girl, this was Matt's ex-wife. They'd been together for quite a while, and I get the feeling things had ended with a lot of unresolved feelings. We had seen in season 1, that Matt still loved Janice enough to try to make things work after finding out she cheated on him. And then he was really happy when he found out they were gonna have the baby.

But by season 2, they had somehow split up, apparently because Matt thought the baby wasn't his. We saw in "Fight or Flight" that Matt still had his doubts about it. And then there's the whole dynamic in season 2 of Matt wanting to not become like his father, who walked out on him. Matt has this fear of that, and is determined to be a good father, in this case to Molly.

In Season 3, Matt takes his spirit walk, and discovers that he has this destiny to be with Daphne in the future. Matt's had this big inner desire to have a family, and latches onto this. So, Daphne gets rushed into this relationship with Matt, and we see in "Cold Snap" how this relationship really was seen by the two. Daphne recognizes that the two don't have a real foundation for a relationship, and that Matt has been filling a void since him and Janice divorced. But the love is really there, and Matt really does care for Daphne. He gives her a storybook ending in their last moments together.

From there, Matt feels a loss of purpose. He just lost the one person that he had believed he was meant to spend his life with, and had also wanted to save (Daphne died in "I Am Become Death"), but ultimately failed and his time with her had also been cut very short. So, Matt gets set on revenge, to make the person responsible, Danko, see and pay for what he did. What has Matt got to lose?

Ultimately, Hiro saves Matt from this path of revenge and death, and introduces him to his son. This is a huge thing for Matt. Matt thought he had lost everything, but finds out he still has family out there, a son to be there for. And that it's actually his son, not Tom McHenry's. Being the guy we know Matt is, he's not going to be like his father and abandon his kid. He's going to be the father baby Matt Parkman needs.

And baby Matt Parkman also needs a mother, which Hiro points out to Matt. So, Matt travels with his son and delivers him to Janice. Now the interactions here seemed mostly to me that Matt was concerned about what Matt Jr. needs. Matt wanted to make things work, but there's still unresolved feelings going on. They haven't even been divorced for a year at this point, maybe not even a half year. I don't think he's quite gotten over it yet. There's something there, but it seems clear to me that Matt's a bit uncomfortable with the idea of getting back together with Janice. He even told Hiro that the ship had sailed, but things aren't as simple when he actually confronted her. Deep down, Matt does want a happy family, and this is like a slight glimmer of hope for that to Matt. He has his memory and grief for Daphne under the surface, but I don't think Matt would go about mentioning all that to Janice. Also, I think Daphne ultimately wanted Matt to be happy and to find a relationship with a real basis sometime after her death. Though, this is really soon after, but at the same time an old relationship. I think Matt's probably as uncomfortable being in such a situation with Janice as we are with the idea of Matt getting back together with Janice so quickly.

And anyways, Matt's leaving Janice for now at least, to go handle things at Building 26 and take his responsibility as a hero.

Wow. Very well said, Kurt. I think you nailed it spot on.

Maybe the writers beleive that you can be in love with more than one person at a time? I'm not saying I agree with this for sure, but I don't disagree competely either.

I was upset. Janice back in season 1 got on my nerves, and I liked her better without big Matt. And as for Matt, I know for a FACT that you don't forget/get over someone you REALLY cared about THAT fast.


That was the ONE thing about the episode that I didn't like.

What these two said. Plus it's not like they are "back together" yet. They are just beginning initial talks towards possible reconciliation.

Everyone deals with loss differently. Some run to someone immediately, others can't ever get over the one they lost to ever enter into another relationship like that again.

My friend lost her high school sweetheart 18 months ago to Cancer. He was 30, and they had been married almost 10 years when he died. She was dating someone else less than 6 months later, and he was not someone in her life prior to her husbands death. A lot of people don't get it, but it's how she's grieving. Does it mean she doesn't love the one she lost? Of course not, she married her true love. At the same time though she couldn't stand being alone. I say good for her for moving on and finding happiness in the midst of extreme tragedy.

Janice isn't some strange woman, he's Matt's one true love. Yes he cared for Daphne, but ultimately Janice is the one he's supposed to be with. It's been obvious that while issues were still there, he's always still loved her on some level.

Like other's have pointed out, it wasn't his choice they weren't together. AND it hasn't been a year and a half in their time like it has been for us since the end of S1, it's been months..

So really one could argue, how could he fall for Daphne when it had only been months since he split with Janice?

I loved Daphne, I'm devastated she's gone (I like her more than Janice) but I don't think his reaction to Janice and Baby Parkman is out of character..

I do just want to wave in Matt's face and say "Oi, you, what happened? You remember Daphne? Daphne, speedster WHO YOU WERE IN LOVE WITH AND DIED LIKE A WEEK OR SO AGO!!" then kick him in the crotch and run.

Matt has always been one of my favourite characters but I am so ****** at him over this. I have actually lost a teeny tiny bit of respect for him.

He truly loved Daphne. I could sense it.

Besides, even if he didn't, wouldn't that create a paradox? No love does not equal future with marriage.

He's actually trying to believe he loves Janice, that's what's going on, because he has this child and needs desperately to stay with him. He was going to die and be with Daphne but then his whole life changed when Hiro showed him his son. He's trying so hard to push the pain of Daphne's death out of his head and try to love Janice again. It's all totally believeable to me.