10 armed guards couldnt drop Sylar with stun guns etc... but Peter and Nathan could survive a fight (the initial one) with him simply having the power of flight? They didnt even fly at him fast... Why did Sylar not just use TK on them and lock them in place? Why bother using lightning if you apparently cant hit them both at the same time? For someone that knows how everything works, he sure can be a moron. That room was completely torn apart and it never dawned on him that the power hes been using since season 1 might work? You know.. the power he uses every show?

The more I watch the season finale, the more I think I shouldnt It really had no surprises and everyone pretty much knew without any spoilers what was going to happen.

Hopefully next season they actually keep us GUESSING...

And hopefully next season we actually have a fight scene!

Basic premise: Sylar was playing with them. Giving the Petrelli Brothers a slight upper hand for a moment.

Have you not herd about handicapping yourself so the fight or contest will last longer or to get information you would normally not be able to get.

a few examples...

• removing your queen in a chess game before you start to play.
• a right-handed person arm wrestling with their left arm.
• a left-handed swordsman using his right hand.
• appearing not as smart as you are so that people say things they don't think you would understand.
• pretending to live on the streets so that people will tend not to notice you and do things they would do if another person was there. (undercover or deep cover detectives)

Just last week on the show "Lie to me" the main character intentionally made "errors" to get his opponent over confident. With the over confidence came errors and thus the villain for the story was caught.

Why? The "fans" will just complain about whatever fight scene we get.

Frankly, I thought what we got was exactly what we should have gotten. And the reason we didn't see the fight was to keep us guessing at not only what really happened, but what Peter really did in there.

I use this thing called imagination, it's pretty cool.

Basically, he touched Sylar and got a power. Eventually, we found out Peter took on shapeshifting, but he basically admitted to Claire he took a power from Sylar. The mystery could have still been there to deliver the twist in the President's limo, along with the delivery of the confrontation that was being built up for the first half hour. Instead, we got the dumb slamming doors that I sort of expected in the back of my mind, yet I was still hoping to see the whole thing. Next time, I'll expect the lame slamming doors.





I use mine all of the time too. I prefer not to HAVE to use it when watching a television show. If that is the case I'll just go read a book since a book DEPENDS on imagination of scenes. Kane, Brigid, Grant, HERE I COME!

Well I think using my imagination as to what happened is more fun than having them show us.

I wholeheartedly concur.

perhaps sylar didnt know that Peter could only fly and so was expecting him to be his usual powerful self?

In fact your imagination is far too strong, tell us what happened before Sylar through Claire out of the hotel room? Maybe he was completely exhausted...

I still want to know what happened in the offscreen battle in season 1 with Sylar and Peter.

I dunno why but for some reason I find that seeing them fight is more enjoyable than imagining it with Barney.

me too.

Are you talking about the Five Years Gone fight? I see that fight as the end of the world. It was a fight between two nuclear powers who could regenerate. It lasted until everyone on earth was collatoral damage.

In this season's finale, I imagined Peter had to have taken a power to fight with and in the end grabbed shapeshifting. If that whole fight was just Sylar missing the flying Petrelli brothers and only hitting furniture until Nathan flew him out the window then we didn't need to see it. Maybe Peter thought he would get all of Sylar's powers until he touched him and found out he could only get one. Plan A was for Nathan to draw Sylar's fire while Peter took all Sylar's powers. It didn't work so Peter took electricity and Sylar and he shot back and forth a while. Wouldn't he be immune to whatever power was used on him if he had that power. Maybe their Plan B was to take shapeshifting and then Nathan would fly him out the window to let Peter go impersonate the President.

I'm really hoping next season starts with the fight as seen from the other side of the doors. They could do this in the re-hash at the opening.

Well, I suppose one could imagine that whatever propels their flight is resistant to telekinetic interference, or at least that it's difficult to get a "bead" on them with telekinesis. I do agree, however, that two guys who can fly but are otherwise normal humans shouldn't be able to last long against Sylar; perhaps he was toying with them to some extent. It also seems pretty illogical of them to have turned down the aid of any armed men; in a fight with Sylar, why wouldn't, say, a guy standing at a distance with body armor and a big gun be at least as safe as a totally unarmed, unprotected man who has to fly at Sylar and make physical contact with him? At the least, Nathan and Peter could have obtained some kind of physical protection (like body armor or bullet-proof vests) and carried guns themselves if they were planning on a head-to-head confrontation with Sylar.

I've said something similar but you have said it more clearly. Thanks.

Sylar can stop bullets with his TK... No reason he couldnt stop 2 brothers flying around the room almost instantly, let alone THAT much warning time!

The real answer they didn't show the fight is because nothing Tim Kring and a roomful of professional writers with a 4 million dollar budget could come up with would have been as cool as Ryan vs. Dorkman (for those who haven't seen it, awesomeness starts at the 30 second mark) To know there are sci-fi fans with ACTUAL budget limits that can conjure something like this just re-doubles my rage felt when those doors slammed shut and Claire peeked between them.

It was in Claire's eyes that we saw the final burn-down of Primatech already, she takes the secret with her...

In the Heroesverse, Electrokinetics are not immune to their own ability. So no, neither of them would be immune to each other.

Which ignores the following points:
1: Heroes had already spent a fortune on effects to this point. No need to drop another few grand on a 30 second fight.
2: Isn't it painfully obvious to pretty much everyone by now that they didn't show it now because they're going to show it later- and specifically show what "really" happened?


Actually, they are immune to their own ability. Elle felt pain because she was completely drenched because of Noah, but there was no harm done to her.

Your number 1 contradicts your number 2 cause if they didn't wanted to spend another few grand for a 30 second fight, then they won't show any even at a later date for sure.
So... no, it's not "painfully obvious".


I think he meant in combination with water which is actually not the same as if she would be only blasted with electricity alone so there is a difference cause it seems that she is immune to her power as long as it is in its pure form but not if its connected to something else like the water.

Really?

Funny. Stuff like that happens all the time in real life. You don't spend the money now, because you don't really have it. But you will have it in a couple months, so you spend it then.

My 1 and 2 are in no way contradictory. They didn't have the money. But they're beginning S4 within the next couple months. They'll have the money then.

Are you sure they are showing the fight at a later date? I just assumed they didn't show it so we had no clue about what power Peter took, or if he took more than one. It led to the big surprise of president Peter

You realize you just asked Synch if he is sure about an opinion he posted..? I first noticed this: "they're gonna show the fight later" meme a few days ago and seems to have caught on with some posters. The whole notion is preposterous to me.. to tease people in the season finale of a ratings-troubled show, so you can, what? Show the awesome fight to an even smaller audience that's still bitter from what you burned them on 4 months ago? If they'd planned to show it, they should have done so to stay fresh in people's minds over summer.

Unless of course they wanted what they got out of it- what did Peter really do?

Am I certain about them showing the fight at a later date? No. I'll be the first to admit it's nothing more than the most likely reason not to show it now- to build up suspense not only about what power Peter took, but if he took more than the one.

An even smaller audience? You do realize that this was the first episode to receive completely positive reviews in the mass media? We will have a larger audience next season.

More importantly, not showing what happened out of sight is pretty standard for a finale. Or have you forgotten the S1 and S2 finales already?

So I'm basing my suspicion that we will see the fight next season entirely on what the show has already given us.

What's interesting is that Sylar/Nathan should have no memories of the fight. That should be a red flag for Peter. Maybe the fight will be shown as a nightmare that Sylar/Nathan has.

There is no way you can put the other finale "fights" together with this "fight" of this one because of the obvious reason is the outcome:

- s1 = The fight was "bleh" but at least it involved many characters and it left us guessing and curious if peter OR nathan OR both survived and what happened to sylars body. So it delivered at least a good cliffhanger.

In s2 we actually see them both alive so we know how they survived but without knowing how, so it is shown to us in a extra episode that was good.

- s2 = everything was done and the case was closed, a fight took place and guess what? WE SAW IT. No need to rewind and show anything further.

- s3 = battle took place but behind closed doors WE DIDN'T SAW IT but the outcome was that peter got shapeshifting, nathan died and sylar was "trapped" in himself thinking he is nathan. Case closed, outcome known, moving on.

So there is no need for them to go back and show the fight since the whole outcome is already known and if they would do it they would just waste their new budget on things that are not needed anymore.

As you can see there is a difference.

It would had been much different if they would rather left it open on what really happened behind the doors like seen claires eye getting wide then she screams "nooo" and when the doors open nobody is there anymore OR the way they did it with peter being left behind but the other two are gone.

It would leave us guessing what exactly happen and how it happened as also leave us with a cliffhanger.

It would had been more worth then for them to show the battle scene from the inside in a other episode next season. After we already know the whole outcome it will be unessacary cause this "bus is gone".

I'm not talking about the fights, Raekon. Nor did I mean to imply that.

The fight was for S3 what the in-sky explosion was for S1 and the hidden shooter was for S2.

You saw the results, but nothing else. And you see what you didn't see originally when the show returns.

I understand what you mean but thats also exactly what I meant.
The other season finales (sorry I forgot about the shooting that's why I said case closed x_X) had a cliffhanger and the "fights" had a outcome that needed to be revealed like in s1 what happened in the sky or in season 2 who the assasin was.

In s3s finale everything was "said" and the outcome of the "fight" is already known so there is no need to go back and show it cause it would be a waste on fx, money and time to go back only so we can see how peter touches sylar and gets shapeshifting. :/

That's what I meant. This fight had nothing that is worth revealing cause everything got revealed a few moments later.

Nathan dies, Peter tricks sylar, Matt pushes thoughts in Sylars head making him think he is nathan. The End. There is nothing "open" that needs to be closed and no cliffhanger when it comes to it because the "cliffhanger" (if you wanna call it one) was Tracy this time killing the agents.

So the s1 and s2 fights had "leftovers" that needed a closure while the s3 one was already a closed case.

I think that this is also because the two first seasons cliffhangers were directly connected to the fights and characters that was involved in the fights while the s3 closed Sylars case and opened tracys that wasn't involved in the fight or the outcome.

Nothing to be revealed?

How about the ongoing debate about if Peter got all Sylar's powers in the fight.

There is plenty to reveal.

Kinda think he'd have regenerated after the fight if had absorbed more than one power.

That can be resolved through Peter using multiple Sylar abilities in the present, or Peter simply saying his current ability is shapeshifting. It's also possible Peter switches to someone else's ability in between seasons, so which of Sylar's abilities he had would be unimportant to Season 4 and could be saved for BTE.

And what happened in the explosion could have been revealed in the present. SA could the identity of Nathan's shooter.

What happened during the explosion in Season 1 was important to Season 2. Who shot Nathan during Season 2 was important to Season 3. Peter taking Sylar's power(s) may be important to Season 4, but we already know it happened. How Peter performed after taking Sylar's power(s) is not important to Season 4. It might clarify if he got all of Sylar's abilities, but him using them in the present day would work just as well.

Not really.
Nathan survived the explosion. Big deal. We'd have figured that out by seeing him in the hospital.


And we wouldn't have figured out who it was by seeing Scarred Peter running away?

We wouldn't have seen Nathan in the hospital if not for the flashback episode. Viewers would want to know how Nathan survived an explosion and how Peter ended up in Ireland with no memory.

Nathan's shooting was one of the closing scenes of Season 2, so it made sense to open Season 3 with who did it and why. Season 3 closed six weeks after the fight.

No. Actually, S3 was over with the bonfire. The teaser for S4 took place 6 weeks in the future.

And we would have seen Nathan in the hospital without the flashback. And it made no sense to go back and see who the shooter was when we would have seen it anyway.

I agree. If they do it like Season One then they will probably show the fight with Sylar, Peter and Nathan from the other side in the middle of Season Four. Season One ended with Nathan flying off with Peter to blow up but then showed a little bit of Generations with Hiro falling out of the sky. Then we had to wait 8 episodes into the season to see the Four Months Ago episode to see what happened when the bomb went off. At some point next season Nathan will remember his death and the few minutes leading up to it and it will be shown then. IMO

Season 3 or not, it's still the last thing they showed before Fall. The bonfire was also after the fight.

When would we see Nathan in the hospital because of the explosion if not for Four Months Ago...?

It does make sense to redo the previous scene for recap.

And Nathan getting shot was after F_Peter jumped back in time.
And Hiro landing in feudal Japan took place after the explosion. (Well, chronologically before, but in Hiro's personal timeline it was after.)


Which doesn't mean we needed to see the explosion for it to happen.

And Future Peter jumping back was something we hadn't seen before. And it gave us a glimpse of the bad future he was trying to prevent.

In Hiro's personal timeline, it was just after Sylar knocked him back, which places it before the explosion (which wasn't in Hiro's personal timeline anyway.) Hiro appearing in Feudal Japan didn't involve Peter or Nathan, so the explosion is still where Season 1 left them, so it's still where the flashback episode should start them.

What fight? Sounded more like a bunch of grunts, screams and thumps behind closed doors to me. It was all out a stupid scene. The writers bait us with Sylar taunting Nathan and Peter, then when we're hooked and lean forward on the edge of our seats as Nathan and Peter fly into battle the doors slam shut and we get that "viewers come to their own conclusion" stupid crap. It is about as lame as the end scenes of just about every drama having characters brood and do sad walking scenes while wuss music plays in the background. I'd rather listen to some Andoface and Doyle rap in my opinion.

It was already shown that peter took only shapeshifting, he even hints it himself by saying "you wouldn't think I took THAT ONE from you".
They were saying in all the interviews and it was shown also in the show that peter can only absorb and hold one power at the time. Plenty to reveal? What else? Nothing.

In my opinion there is no need to go back and show what happened behind these doors after we know that nathan died afterwards and peter touched him and took shapeshifting.

So there is indeed nothing to reveal anymore.

In S2 everyone were asking themselves HOW nathan survived and HOW peter lost his memory and WHY/HOW he ended up in ireland. So there was a need to go back and show what happened. Additionaly they had to reveal more things like how DL died, where sylar went and who took him and so on..

In S3 they had to reveal who the shooter was and why he did it.

There is no such a thing that would justify a whole episode in S4 only to reveal how peter touched sylar cause it would be a waste of money, time and energy.

If they wanna use a "flashback" to show how sylar gets his memory back they can aswell use old material scenes like the ones he kills Nathan, how peter surprises him and so on..

In other words..because you, personally, think there is nothing such a scene could give u, there is no reason to revisit it.

Despite there being many things that the scene could show us. At the least, remembering the fight from not-Nathan's perspective would be one of the key things involved in Sylar's recovery of his memories.

Not to mention the simple fact that we don't have any proof at all that Peter only absorbed a single ability, or even left with the one he initially took, in the fight.

Not to mention, there may well be a reason Sylar cut Nathan's throat instead of his skull.

Not to mention, proof of whether or not he took Flight.

There are many questions that could be answered by showing the fight. Far more questions than were answered showing Peter and Nathan in the explosion in S1. (We all sort of knew how Nathan survived anyway. Wasn't that hard to figure out that he was out of the primary blast radius.) And certainly more potential questions than were answered by showing F_Peter pulling the trigger. (So things were so bad in the future that Peter thought the only option was to assassinate his brother. We'd have figured that one out when they showed F_Peter running away.)

Really funny how you are trying to hold yourself on any little straw now taking as examples things you defended and bashed yourself in other threads as "have taken place".

So you mean after they used any opportunity to show us and even let peter to confirm it that he can take only one power they all of sudden changed it only in this particular scene.

Then I ask you WHY did peter say "I can't" when claire told him to fly after them and WHY didn't he regenerated his wounds? Exactly! Because he only were able to select ONE ability and that was the shapeshifting.

Even if tk would had been a lot more effective if he would had just stayed there to check for them despite he didn't even really checked outside the window with claire but ok... that's something else I guess and they needed to do it this way so Nathan can be killed like this.

Didn't you defended that Sylar took flight from Nathan "empathically" and when he came back from the window that it was flight and not tk? What's there to reveal about it?

As I told before if they will do any flashbacks to show how sylar remembers they will take significant things like the death scene, shapeshifting parts and a few other things because they already have all this material and it would be a big waste of money to make a extra expensive scene only for this flashback.

If it were a flashback like 1961 then I would agree that it was needed but in this case they have all they need for him to remember.



The "we all knew" claims are based on the assumptions we all made while the hiatus and parts of spoilers. None of these were facts before they showed us in the show. Other than that it revealed why Nathan saw himself in the mirror as a "monster" and how he exactly survived as also how peter had lost his memories. This all were needed so they can introduce Adam and his connection to the brothers so there were more behind the whole thing.

Showing the F_Peter was exactly the same cause the "butterfly effect" was caused because of him and his actions sealed the fate of some of the other heroes like Matt that were forced to be in the desert, meet usutu and expand his ability as example.

As would remembering any of the other thousands of Sylar's memories from not-Nathan's perspective.



There are four ways the flashback can show what powers Peter got: have a different special effect for absorbing from Sylar (silly), have Peter use another ability (can be done in the present just the same, assuming he still has Sylar's and this is therefore relevant to season 4), have Peter try and fail to use another ability (can be replaced by two lines of dialogue in the present), or have Peter absorb from Sylar multiple times (the relevant part can also be replaced by Peter saying his current ability is shapeshifting.)



Seems the most logical way to prove Sythan can or can't fly is have him fly or say he can't fly anymore. Sylar often cuts throats of people he doesn't have an ability to gain from them, so it seems obvious it was because he already had flight or felt he didn't need it.

Actually, what you said holds true for the flashbacks to the S1 finale and the S2 finales.
You can't make an argument that we don't need to see the S3 finale again without having those arguments turned around and used on the times we've already revisited a finale.
S1 Finale Revisited: What'd we learn? That Nathan was barely far enough away from Peter to survive the explosion, but close enough to be badly burned. We'd have learned the same thing with less than a sentence of dialogue.
S2 Finale Revisited: (Talking about going back before the shots were fired.) What'd we learn? That the future sucked so badly, Peter thought the only way to prevent it was to go back in time and kill his brother. We'd have learned that with a "Why?" and an answer. Certainly would have taken less time than what they gave us.


Umm...no. Actually, he doesn't.
I can't remember a single slit throat in the history of the show.

When the show didn't have the budget to do the scene when it counted, why bother showing it after all has been said and done? It doesn't make any sense and would just be a waste of time..much like the original scene was what with it, once again, getting some of our hopes up. I honestly don't need to see another scene where Sylar dominates over all living things and cannot be thwarted in combat because of his limitless telekinetic abilities and parts the waters of the Red Sea with but just a smirk while turning water into wine with the power of his five o' clock shadow.

*yawn*

Again, just because you don't see anything that could be relevant doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Showing the S1 explosion again was a "waste of time," but that doesn't mean we didn't learn something revisiting it. (Even if we could have learned the same information in less than a sentence.)
Showing F_Peter as the shooter was a "waste of time," especially taking that trip to the future to see him make the decision, but that doesn't mean we didn't learn something seeing it. (Even if we could have learned the same information in less than 5 minutes of present-day dialogue.)

What happened in Four Months Ago... is a bit more complicated than whether or not someone has an ability. And starting an episode with Future Peter walking away from the shooting would feel a bit awkward. And it's usual an episode with one of the last episode's closing scenes, not several minutes before that.



Ando (How to Stop an Exploding Man), Noah (The Eclipse, Part 2), a guard at Primatech (Dual), Echo DeMille (Dual).

Yes. And you could have cut out the 5-10 minutes of the explosion from 4MA, and left room for other storylines without sacrificing much of anything. Revisiting the explosion, following your reasoning, was completely unneeded.

And yet the episode in question did go several minutes before the closing scenes.
How would it have been more awkward for them to show Peter running away from the shooting than to take the time to show why he went there? It could have been explained in 30 seconds of dialogue when Parkman cornered him. Or even when he was confronted by the current version of himself.


Noah cut Sylar's throat, not the other way around.
Pretty sure he was going to cap Ando, not slice his throat. (Could be wrong, since it's been a while since I've seen that epi, but I don't think he was going for a throat slice.)
Echo definitely had his throat cut, but I don't remember the guard being sliced. (I'll have to rewatch to be sure.)