Don't forget to vote in this episode's poll!

If you have an overall negative opinion of this episode or several aspects of it, please post them here.

This thread will be only for "venting" about what someone felt was particularly bad with the episode.

Please do not post replies trying to show why you think a member's opinion is wrong in this thread. These types of posts will be deleted. This is not a debate thread, there are plenty of other topics available for the exchange of ideas.

If there is an obvious factual error, such as "Claire was never a cheerleader", a correction may be posted. However, do not use this as an opportunity to violate the spirit of this thread.

I have always tried to give the show the benefit of the doubt but I can't anymore. I stuck up for the show when people complained about different writers using different uses of powers- and then totally ignoring them later. I never once complained about the sudden "lets kill all the people who can travel in no time so they can't use that as an escape."

I was hoping characters would learn and grow but somehow they retain their stupidity and the writers still astound us with bull crap.

Sylar is magically so powerful that he can implant himself into Matt's mind.

Peter forgot we ended last season on a "New company- better company" note and wants nothing to do with the creation of a company to focus on HEROIC DEEDS and protecting people from people who abuse their gifts.

Claire regains her ability to be a total moron and try to die every chance she gets. "Oh its dark out - could be as early as 3am! No one will see me in this place jumping out a wi- oh wait". Just because you can doesnt mean you should. After all, you are the one trying to have a normal life- stop ruining it for yourself.

Mat, mind reading is a horrible thing, see how evil it has - oh wait- lets blame that on SYLAR IN YOUR HEAD. Not a real struggle with your own problems- lets give you an excuse.

Hiro forgets who he is because of a slusho. Yeah... Lets forget all about the other times you have tried to fix things! Those things having to do with life and death, no - this one moderately nice thing is proof he was wrong.

Hiro - for some reason your powers return randomly- guess the writers have more control over your character than he does ("lets have him travel back in time." "But we said he cant." "Do it anyways" "Ok.")

HIRO! Suddenly for no reason you are experiencing self freezing thing! Must have something to do with those pesky writers again - because a splitting headache and a nose bleed doesnt say "im in trouble" enough.

GOSH DANG IT HIRO! Why did they have to mess with you so much!? You are supposed to be the guy who thinks outside of the box. "im dying, there's nothing i can do." Yeah- in a world with super powers theres no way to cure you. Nope, your mother, and linderman, both dead, there can't be another healer out there. And dont get me started on Dial a Hero, you should be in a comic book store. Maybe you will remember why you dont have a hero hot line.

Carnival Folks - your more well organized than the heroes of our story. Just end them. Don't try to recruit Hiro, that doesn't work- and if it does you killed the show. That's doing it wrong, kill your enemies- if you kill the show- well that's suicide.

Noah, don't bring a gun to a super power knife fight. Whoever didn't see super speedy cutting him up needs to have their eyes checked. Mr. Evil tattoo guy is far more scary than HR and Peter- of course he's going to go after you again, when there is no power stealing help.

Noah, keep the Haitian, 90% of powers don't seem to work with him around- super speedy shows up and suddenly realizes- he brought a knife to a gun fight- see how i worked that back in there and didn't just drop a name that makes everything cool (glares at Peter)?

Director - Thank you for the close ups. I had forgotten how the characters looked so it was nice to be able to count the hairs on their head so i could make sure it was them.

Everyone else on the show - Stop the crap, make a real story, tell the story, get us to cry from something other than how horrible it was and make us laugh with something funny and not a weak gag.

Preview - "They think you are causing the accidents so you can save em, Pete!" - . . . Are you serious? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is? FIRE WHOEVER THOUGHT OF THAT PLOT.

LOL, yeah that "causing the accidents" plot point is so ridiculous. Like Peter had time to stage an accident all the while he was at the paramedic base or with his partner? Stupid.

Thank you Sage. This show is complete cr*p. I really tried to hold any judgment before the show started, but tonight was a big disappointement. I don't even know why they bothered bringing back the Danko character. Not that I cared for him but they just brought him back to kill him.

Plus, I really feel bad for Adrian Pasdar. I truly hope for his sake that TPTB let him go soon. He deserved better than be a body double for ZQ.

Please read the rules for this thread.

Thanks! (and don't reply to this post)

I despised that Annie character. I am very happy they tossed her out the window.

EPIC FAIL

I should have watched House....

I have been, and will continue to be, a fan of the show...but it's getting harder with each passing season. It will remain on the DVR schedule but might lose it's "I gotta be home by 9, can't miss Heroes" status. I agree with everything the first poster mentioned as being asanine and pretty ridiculous. It is a show about people with super powers so I'm not complaining about realism or crazy use of powers (although this has been a problem since season 2), but story and character development are what keep us watching and that is what missing from the show. Here were some things that made me slap my head and wish I could go back and never have started down this road..

-Traci is hell bent on killing everyone who's wronged her, to the point where she tried Noah in his car before Danko came to the rescue. After 1 sitdown in a bar, their best buds. So much so that he calls her to come visit him in the hospital when he gets slashed and robbed.

-Traci breaks into Danko's apartment, he points a gun at her and after a little back and forth she says "He made you forget..." and Danko puts the gun down and is ready to walk away from her...what happened? The Haitian removed his memory of Traci but this is still a strange woman who's broken into your apartment, why not question her and ask her what the hell she's doing there.

-If the key was indeed in Danko's stomach, and this guy with the swords is super fast, why not just speed reach into his stomach and pull the damn key out. I only say this because that was the conclusion that Noah came to "All of the cuts are to his stomach, I would have gone for the jugular, so whatever they were looking for must be...ah, there it is a key.."

-Peter is all of a sudden a ginsu master of sword-fighting, and like the previous poster said, when's the last time you saw Noah without a gun. He's knows their waiting for him and he goes unarmed.

-Hiro changes the slushi "incident" ala Lost, but the only thing that changes (although we haven't seen everything else) is the Ando is now dating his sister. Apparently they've been in love since that day at the carnival and their still not married (dating for 30+ years, that is one patient chic). This would have changed the course of Hiro's Dad's life as well as his entire family. Why would they even take the show down this path?

-Matt is somehow addicted to reading minds and it is causing major problems in his life...really? he's even going through group therapy for this...really? He's hooked on using his power like a drug addict, he needs to get a fix by messing with the water guys mind and this is supposed to be some huge moral dilema? I just can't even believe this was even considered as a plot device. He's a cop, reading minds would save lives and make this world a better place, I understand him not wanting to implant thoughts in people's heads, but reading minds can do nothing but help him. Cheating wife with a young guy around the house when I'm at work...yea I'm reading that one, criminal who won't give up the name of his supplier...yea, I'm going in there too. Where is the conflict here?

-Claire throwing herself out of dorm window where her roommate just committed suicide, I think it's more surprising that only 1 person saw her, this was just ridiculous. Nice way to lead your normal life, flinging yourself out of a window to test a theory, then push your ribs back into place and hope the cafeteria is still open. I did like the special effects used here though, impressive.

-Sylar's powers randomly manifesting in Nathan yet he doesn't remember the real Sylar having these same powers that he now has. I know they altered his memory but he still has Nathan's memories of battling Sylar from previous seasons. When he leaves Peter or his mom a message wouldn't he say "I have all these new powers for some reason, what's going on? My fingers are emitting freakin' sparks just like Sylar, somebody better tell me something..." And then Angela calling Parkman to come fix this when the Haitian is still around. I remember from Season 2 I think where the Haitian can select certain memories to erase, he can alter Sythan's brain and make him completely forget everything Sylar.

-And finally, the Carnival folks. Looks like their using the same formula as previous season, start the story in the middle and give a flashback episode later. We don't know who the dead guy is even who his friends/family are, but they play a key role in this season apparently. This was a cool gimmick in season 1, season 2 it was OK, now it's just getting a little annoying for me personally.

There were some good moments, I actually thought Dial-A-Hero was funny, Traci's power kicking in instinctively when she almost got gashed was cool, and Noah calling his ex only to have another man answer was very emotional. I also like that Peter is actually doing something and is not playing an idiot, not yet anyway. This was the route I thought they would take with Matt. We need more character development and stop with the gimmicks.

I'll keep watching and hoping for the best

A minor correction, the slushi incident happened 14 years ago, not 30.

Good catch, thanks man. Still a pretty patient woman lol

I am still in shock as to how bad this has gotten. I watch a lot of shows. My jobs all involve me fiddling away at a desk so I watch all kinds of TV shows on hulu and more and just regular ol' cable.

Heroes follows a very comic book like storyline. Unfortunately it now includes the feeling of multiple writers trying to do their own thing. Characters get pulled in different usually RANDOM directions, ruining any hope that these characters will ever truly work together. Even the ones made to do so.

They have decided, like comic book writers, that they don't need a rule book. They don't think they need something to "limit their creativity" it seems. A "rule book" keeps things from getting out of hand. It keeps teleporters from teleporting objects inside of people, it keeps time travelers from destroying the current time line ruining every other storyline in progress. Such a thing prevents us from being brought out of the story having us say "... what? But- last season they- and now they can- but they cant do- this makes no sense!" Changing things from episode to episode, season to season. It is non-sense and they cant possibly imagine the majority of their watchers are just going to go with it.

Every season so far has had it's downsides, but they all had something great. Season One was very slow- but it felt so unique to have a good show involving super human powers on TV. Season 2 was faster and they tried to keep the same feeling- but it was literally cut short. Season 3 had a good pace finally- but was ruined by some really horrible and crazy decisions by the writers. Characters went back and forth, changed personas- and then went back to how they were. Thus making it entirely pointless. It's foolish.

They have a lot to make up for if they want to continue this show. You don't make a show because "people are idiots and will watch anything" - you make something you would want to watch, something you can be proud of, and if they as artist and writers can love and enjoy it. If they can enjoy it, and truly be proud of it- then your everyday people and your critics can enjoy it as well.

Sure we will always find something to complain about, but factual errors, nonsense, character suicide - these remove you from the story like a bad actor, or screwed up video or audio. As soon as that happens, it's over- better luck next time. If you can't keep us in that state of watching these people- not these characters, it's not entertainment anymore. If done right we can only complain based on our opinion instead of the facts.

I want them to do better, there's already so few good shows out there, dont ruin it. You havent finished the second part of the season right? You do half a season - take a break to finish the other half? If that's how it's done- fix it before it's too late. Or fix it with the next season- if you can manage to get another season after this crap.

If you have to- pull a reset! Earth is destoryed- Hiro and Peter die transporting a building of the main characters and other heroes and people they saved- to another universe. A universe of new Beginnings! People will find it weird- but its still less strange than Fringe. That universe has its own Hiro and Peter still alive, you can bring back old characters, give current characters better personas- make people smarter instead of a bunch of morons! YOU HAVE WRITERS! They can fix things- you just have to have them all try- and pick your favorite!

I can writer better than your current stuff so don't tell me this is your best!

I'm not debating this, I think you are flat wrong. Rewatch the scenes. Tracy didn't break into Danko's apartment, she followed him. Still creepy, but not the same, eh? Danko is a man who has been in a profession that leads him to have a security system in his apartment! so he wouldn't be too surprised by a hot blonde (spy? assassin?) being close on his tracks.

He didn't just put the gun down and walk away. Tracy showed confusion, as did Danko, then he heard a noise back in his apartment. He went to investigate, confronted the intruder (Edgar) and got slaughtered. Tracy walks in and witnesses the killing. Edgar kills Danko in hyperspeed, then turns to face and kill Tracy. She proves to be too much for his powers to handle and he runs.

Watch the scene before critiquing it and coming to the wrong conclusions.

I completely agree with all from the multiple above posts. The one MAJOR problem I have, is that Danko had a key for a safe deposit box that held a compass.

First off, why didn't the super fast carnie just root around Danko's belly and find the key himself after slicing him up? It took Noah all of 10 seconds to find it, so one would imagine that the carnie that moves super fast would have found that key in about one one-thousandth of a second, had that safe deposit box opened within another couple seconds and been back to the carnival with a round trip of about 2 minutes. But that leads to my real issue: WHY DO THE CARNIES NEED THE KEY WHEN THEY HAVE SUPER POWERS? Maybe the carnies are dumber than Peter. Now granted we don't know the extent of all the carnie's powers, but with the horrible writing on this show, I'm sure we will find that there is a carnie strong man or a phaser or some other power which could have been used instead of using the key.

One other thing that just bothers me is Parkman. Why is he so afraid to read minds? It doesn't hurt the person who's mind is being read, it doesn't hurt Parkman, it doesn't hurt anyone! Is it because he somehow thinks it is unfair, like he needs to be on the same level as all the other cops out there? To me, that is like someone who has Mensa intelligence smoking a bunch of weed before taking any tests because they don't want to use their super intelligence to help them pass. Brilliant writing!

im am very aggrevated with this whole hiro is dying from too much time manipulation..if thats the case where the hell did future hiro come from
and why isnt anyone else dying

The time travel bit sent my head into my hands in disgust. Hiro goes back, saves Ando's relationship and nothing has changed at all. I don't think the writers have the "foresight" to realize that 14 years of changed actions and time presents huge plot holes. What if Ando spent more time with Hiro's sister, and Hiro and Ando's relationship slipped away? Would Ando and Hiro be good friends? Would Ando trek the globe with Hiro if he had the love of his life in Japan? Really? This is all the writers can come up for Hiro's story arc?

Parkman's public hissy fits with Sylar were embarrassing. Parker knows that Sylar is in his mind; Parker is a friggin' mind EXPERT! Give him some credit. Why would he get frustrated and yell at Sylar when he knows no one else can see him? At least show your characters some sense and cart them out of the room and away from embarrassment. The writers can still addle Matt's brain without having him make illogical outbursts that damage his character's plausibility.

The writing has turned soap operaish, and I feel like the characters are now all contrived from years of molding them in the wrong ways. New writers or a new show are in order. It's a shame because the actors, when given the right script, can really perform.

Watch. The. Screen.


As for Hiro, Synch, I don't think it's been made clear why he is sick. It's all speculation at this point and therefore debate.

seriously, even if someone got the "drop" on him he is SUPER FAST and she ISN'T.

i mean 1 second to root around for what you CAME FOR?

it all worked out in the end and i understand that it was for story purposes,
but you are acting like there was some definitive reason as to why he couldn't have taken the extra 1 or 2 SECONDS to get the key.


also in reply to a thread you froze for some unknown reason.
heroes has never appeared to me to follow "realtime" as you stated.
every so often they state "6 months later" or 6 weeks later in the case of this season.

Yes I was under the impression that it is NOT now in heroesverse. The Timeline does not add up to september 09. Also to a super fast guy 2 seconds to root around in a corpse is an eternity.

I agree this season is not perfect so far but at least it is starting out better than season 3 did.

- as wolfbro said rewatch the scene, when tracy steps in danko gets still sliced by edgar and then drops. She goes a bit further forward and edgar just reacts normally on her presense and attacks her instead of saying "wait a second!". Most of all since he has no clue what she is capable off or not.
He obviously thought she belongs to danko so he wanted to get rid of her real fast and have all the time he wants after that. Since he got more than he can chew with her he had to let go.


As about general in the episodes, I also agree that what they did with Matt and Sylar so sylar can have extra screening time is just plain wrong.

Not to say dumb when Noah has the haitian around him and on call but Angela still asks Matt to "update" Sylar again so he thinks that he is nathan.

Then at every opportunity quinto has to jump on screen and push back pasdars screentime again so we can "get it" that he is actually sylar.

I mean its OK from time to time but they obviously are going for the "sylar show" 2.0 again in some terms and I'm kinda sure that they will expand it to that extent again that the show will meet its maker only out of favorism and stupidity on not letting go of one single character but rather ruining all the others. -.-

Shouldn't Pasdar playing actually Sylar? Now everytime we see Matt, Angela or Nathan we see more Sylar than anything else again. Are we going back to the bad roots of the seasons 3 first volume that in each and every second sylar was present? NO PETER! Don't grow! Don't saw the audience that you have the guts to free the world of your fathers deadly grip! Let me do it! I need to be center stage in the show and in all images/posters that shows the regulars of the show. Almost everyone in the background and sylar like front middle and BIG.

Great episodes actually and very improved in many terms this thing nags on me a lot.
Most of all since I fear he will be his old self in the next 2 episodes and will go on a trip of slicing angela and everyone else including the very promising carnival which I hope will remain for long(Samuel is a great villain already!).

A few of you talking back and forth about they key consider this:

speedster in season 3 can steal things from Hiro, MASTER OF TIME, with complete ease and can still MOVE even when Hiro freezes time! That's how fast they are!

speedster in season 4 isn't fast enough to grab a key.

Just a friendly reminder to keep the discussion on topic, which is NEGATIVE Reviews. If you disagree with the review, or want to debate the show, there are other threads for that.

Muchas Gracias!

I started watching Heroes about a year ago when I got the season 1 disc set for $10. After I finished I went online to watch all the episodes I could to catch up to the latest (last) season. I've been waiting all summer for the premier, and hooked up my comp to my TV to watch it. I found myself checking emails, making calls, and getting up for drink without pausing the show. I hadn't noticed till it was over that the show did not hold my interest.

As the week progressed, I was thinking of rewatching it to see if it was my fault for getting distracted, or if the show I had been eagerly anticipating just didn't appeal to me. I checked my phone, I didn't receive any calls, I made them. I hoped the second episode would be better, but no. I hope there is some sort of story getting ready to develop here, otherwise I'll just catch highlights on Hulu.

Maybe the show is just becoming anti-climatic. The first season is about a secret agency that hunts people down, with the earth on the verge of an apocolypse. This season is about carnies...CARNIES! Oh, and a deaf lady that can see sound in colors, not all sounds though. I can't wait to see how that becomes an important plot device.. Ninjas attack in the dark, but one farts and she can see the flash of light and warn everyone?

Also, what no-one else seems to have mentioned which is particularly poor about the new series is the sudden and mysterious disappearance of mohinder..??? Where has he gone??

It's not unusual, and hasn't been since S1, for a secondary character to vanish for weeks at a time. I suspect we'll see him soon.

hmm..i dont know... personally i am very skeptical, 5 episodes in and not so much as a mention beyond peter saying he took his powers to help him work in ep 1. I wouldn't be surprised if we never saw him again!!