I found that Samuel really got to Peter tonight by having him think he caused him harm on the job causing Peter's reputation to be ruined. He sure can really work people to get them somehow to join the carnival. I can't wait till next week.

I know

Yeah he really does have a way with words. But that is something all good cult leaders need.

On might say he can easily "get under people's skin"...



Sorry, I could help myself.

Ok, I do agree he's been clever! That newspaper move, especcially, impressive!

I want to say, however, that I don't think his goal was to manipulate him into the Carnival (yet). I think he just wanted to see if he was a worthy Empath, good enought to join them, to replace Joseph, and to be a ''compass'' for Samuel. And I think that Peter giving him this advice about visiting his old home was proof to him that he were (even if it led to the destruction of the whole house! ).

Anyway, that's just how I interpreted Samuel's plan...

Anybody could manipulate Peter.

I personally think that this Carnival, and Samuel especially, isn't inherently bad. Sure, you'll act how you were raised to act, but you can still change in the end, be a better person than what you know.

I think Samuel manipulates people so well just because of what he was raised in, how he was brought up. I mean, look at where he was raised, the younger son in a family of servants to unfeeling and very impersonal, snooty rich people. All he most likely saw as he was growing up was his family being manipulated, his parents forced into being subservient.

I think, personally, all Samuel is looking for is indeed a real Family. When he found all of those people with abilities, created the carnival, that's what he did. Made a family; but, it's a family built on a very unstable footing. Samuel is looking to "recruit" our Heroes, have them join the family for little more reason than just to have them there. In the end, I think the Heroes will make a bigger impact on the Carnival than we realize, and possibly change them for the better.

This volume is titled Redemption for a reason. Hopefully, we'll actually get to see our Heroes being real heroes.

I remember the actor as T-Bag on Prison Break and he's still an amazing sly villain in this show as well. Great to see.

Not to get off the subject, but do we really know that that's the case from this one episode? I mean do we know that Samuel and his family had it so bad living there? All Samuel said (at least from what I can remember, since he tended to talk so low), was that he lived in the house once growing up and that his parents were servants at one time to a family living there. Heck, it may not even be the same family that's living in the house. Maybe the first family sold it and left years ago. Samuel had to explain that his parents once worked there. Wouldn't the woman at the door have an "ah hah" moment of realization/recognition if she was a member of the family to whom Samuel's parents served (unless she was too young to remember at the time)?

Besides, Samuel didn't really seem to habor any ill feelings towards the people there. He was polite enough while addressing the woman in the beginning. I suspect that it was her refusal to let him inside as well as the standard "sorry for your loss" statement that set him off, especially after what Peter said about people saying it without thinking or truly knowing.

Yeah, we saw some people at a party, who understandably, might not want some stranger hanging out at their house. They don't know him like we know him (the little that we do). I mean, if you were hosting a birthday party or something and some seedy looking guy comes knocking at your door asking "sorry to bother you, but my brother died recently and I used to live here. Mind if I hang out for a couple of hours?" would you let him? Maybe some people might, but I suspect a large majority would think there is something not quite right in the head of someone like that. And come on. It's New York City, a place where people get murdered and mugged for all sorts of stupid reasons. For all she knew, he could have been some nut with a gun looking shoot off a few rounds or hold up a bunch of rich folks for all their worth. And unless you're running a church or a charity, you don't usually let random strangers into your home in the middle of the night, unless you're armed.

I just think it's a little unfair to judge those people as "impersonal, snooty, and unfeeling" when A) they probably don't know as much about Samuel as the audience does and B ) if they weren't rich or if it were us in the same position, many of use would agree with the decision to tell Sam to take a hike (as politely as possible of course), or at least feel more sympathy for the people who were killed and had their home destroyed than for the man who did it.

Sorry for the rant. It's late and I'm tired. No hard feelings I hope.

Well, considering I also know next to nothing in the end and that is also my own opinion, I can humbly disagree with you. Sure, most people wouldn't have let him into the house, I probably wouldn't, that's for sure.

But the point of my post above was really an overall one and not this specific incident. Yes, Samuel is indeed a bad guy. They are showing us that CLEARLY from all of the stuff he has done, but does that mean he can't be "saved" or, in the vein of this volume, be "redeemed"? Honestly, just from context clues alone, it seems to me that Samuel did indeed have a bad life that involved, for a major portion of his life, servitude to a family he wasn't connected to.

Even if it was a different person who owned the house than when he lived there, and even though they didn't necessarily deserve what happened to them, I just got a very snooty and impersonal feel from the people inside the house. The gate separating Samuel from the lady is a bit of a plot device when thought of in this regard.

Not only that, but Samuel didn't kill everyone in the house. Did anyone actually die, I wonder? The paramedic/fireman at the scene of the accident said that things could have been a lot worse than we know. Samuel could have SLAUGHTERED every person in the house with his ability, yet he didn't. Maybe he was only trying to remove the last reminder of his old life, the one he hates and wishes didn't exist (you do have to admit that a Carnival is a far cry and almost the exact opposite of the life they "showed" us he had in the past. The Carnival represents total freedom, at least to Samuel, and his old life was one of "slavery" and servitude).

Samuel manipulates because that's what he grew up around. That's the main point I'm making here. His old life was, for lack of a better word, very impersonal. That's why he went in search of the Carnival/Family. He merely held onto the lessons he had "learned" from his past and still uses what he knows to this day.

While I hate to see Peter being manipulated like this again, I have to say that Samuel does it a whole lot better than Adam. And I hope that Peter is allowed to act smarter this time, and actually find out he's being used himself.

I love Samuel as a villain. He's got very understandable motives and resorts to the wrong means. That's exactly the sort of villain I like me most.

Well it appears that Peter has finally grown a pair and I like it. I hope he doesn't blindly follow this time.

No, that would lose to show a whole bunch of fans who've only tentatively and recently returned. :/

Samuel reminds me a lot of Linderman in this regard. And that's a good thing. Linderman has remained the Gold Standard for manipulative badguys.

This just made Peter look more naive than ever.

However Samuel didn't seem to actually succeed in mentally manipulating Peter, it was by his ink trick that got Peter.

Actually, what we've seen from Peter in the past is him getting tricked by words and acts from the villains. They found a way to trick him and have him work for them.

This time around, it's vastly different. Peter knew for a fact that Samuel wasn't on that bus and that he didn't save him from any accident. Peter was dead sure about it. The only time he second guessed himself was when he saw the picture that had been tampered with. He saw hard proof that he was wrong and that Samuel was right. That's why he went out and looked for Samuel in the end.

Now, is he manipulating Peter to do something for him? Not exactly. Samuel doesn't want to blow up New York or unleash a virus on the world. He just wants more people at the Carnival and, in Peter's case, probably someone to fill the void his brother left behind.

I honestly don't think that Samuel is a villain really, just a bad guy who needs help that he isn't looking for.

So, Peter wasn't manipulated, he just got inked by Samuel in order to find his way to the Carnival. It's probably safe to say that Peter isn't being gullible yet again, but being led through a mystery just like all of the other Heroes will in the future, most likely.

How?

Samuel is charismatic, intelligent and cunning. He's even better at manipulation than Linderman was, from what I'm seeing so far.

Even incredibly intelligent and worldly people get caught in those snares.

Really?

If you know the right buttons to push, yes.

But Peter has become a lot smarter since Adam, and he doesn't come across as naive this time. Requiem said some very important things, and I would like to add another. Adam made Peter do things with him that totally went against his nature. Or he stood by while these things happened. Samuel hasn't done anything of the sort. Peter was acting like any decent person would in "Ink", and I hope that if Samuel tries to enlist him to do something that does go against Peter's nature, he'll have the backbone to say no.

i would just like to add to the "did samuel even kill anyone" comment.

YES

didnt you see there were like 8 body bags atleast when peter was walking up?

The fireman told Peter and Hesam that there had been three people killed.

are u sure he said three? i thought he said "a lot". it looked like more than three body bags. i wouldn't have any idea how people could survive a house collapsing on them and then igniting in flames. seems to me like everyone in that house died.

Really? I know Gold Seven and others already dealt with this, but I had to chime in. Peter was as dumb as a rock in Season 1, 2 and the first half of Season 3. He actually became much smarter in fugitives, and in the current volume is acting like the most intelligent person of the bunch so far.


If I were in Peter's shoes I probably would believe that Prison Break Guy was on the bus. The logbook and the newspaper photo is pretty strong evidence. It is not naive to believe when Samuel is that sneaky, and acts that well in front of Peter. If in an episode Samuel starts asking to do crazy things X, Y and Z and Peter goes along with it for no good reason, well then, I'll consider him naive, gullible and slow (like he was in prior seasons). But not now.

I don't remember exactly what the guy said but it had to be more than 3. There were tons of people in that house.

agreed. i was under the impression that everyone in that house died. maybe he said 30 as opposed to 3. i havent rewatched the episode yet but im planning on it soon. ill make it a point to pay close attention and post what exactly was said.

Just rewatched the scene at hulu.com and the firefighter says:

"3 people died here, could have been a lot worse."

So yes, I wasn't sure if Samuel had killed anyone before, but having rewatched the scene, I'm sure. Does this change my point though? No. Samuel is a bad guy, for sure, and needs to be helped. Our Heroes might provide that help in the future. Note that there were many more than 3 people in the house. Samuel did not kill everyone in there, but he did indeed kill 3 people.

Am I saying he's a bad guy? Yes. Am I saying he's a straight up villain with no regard for human life at all whatsoever? No.

There's a chance for him to be redeemed, even after what he did.

let us just hope so. he is an interesting guy and i would hate to have to kill him.

That's what, imho, makes him such an awesome character and such a perfect villain.

Linderman was much the same.

In both cases they do what they do "for the greater good," or at least that's what they tell themselves. (So now we have 2 Harry Potter tie-ins. Horcrux!Sylar and Grindelwald!Samuel. lol)

Haha! Harry Heroes FTW:

Rewatching "Ink", it struck me that besides Peter obviously having fallen prey to a charismatic guy again, he even disregarded a clear indication that "William Hooper" was a fake. When Peter visited Samuel in the hospital, the latter was holding an ice pack to his right shoulder and keeping his arm as immobile as you'd expect of someone who'd just had it dislocated. Yet that night in Central Park, Samuel suddenly sticks out his arm and manages a rather vigorous handshake. Peter's face admits the conclusion that he does wonder about it, but it just occurred to me that he should be a lot more careful around the guy from now on...