This was passed on to me from NBC, not sure if it's been posted yet.

Okay, that was the funniest reply I think I've seen in at least a year.

Thanks a lot Al! Honestly, I think something very interesting is going to happen with this. Maybe Gretchen is going to be able to absorb her rengerative power or some new kind of ability that can activated with this kiss. I can't wait to see. A lot of people are getting excited as well. I hope though it won't just be a ratings ploy if they wrote this correctly. If they didn't, then yeah, it's just a ratings ploy, but I doubt it for now.

As I said in another topic, Hayden herself apparently pitched the lesbian relationship idea! The writers had the idea of just another relationship for Claire (that'd be, what, her 4th?), and she just said "can I be, like, with a girl?". And they went with it! I saw a youtube interview where she says so herself.

So I doubt it is a rating ploy! And I hope this will go on for longer than just a kiss!

People, around every Heroes community, seems to have very mixed opinions about this, I must say! Some (and I include myself here) thinks it is an awesome development for the character! Others think it's the worst idea ever. Others again just think it's "hot"! And then, but I didn't saw any yet, there is probably some homophobic comments about it! So I'm not only looking forward the kiss, but also all those mixed reactions that people will have about it once it actually happens!

Can you post that interview? Also, I saw the panel at Comic-Con and she indicated that their characters just had a wonderful "friendship", but not in the way that people were going to think it was; so to me, this means that there isn't going to be a real intimate relationship, but they could still be really close. However, I'm excited to see it because I'd like to see the reactions as well.

Sure thing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K_AZ5WKRQo...feature=related . Check near the end, near 5:05, this is when the talk about Heroes in general and this relationship in particular starts. The beginning is just talking about, well, stuff! lol

It was a great interview and she seems to be open to the response as well after we see the scene. I can't wait.

It may not be a ratings ploy, but this kiss will in no way involve Gretchen trying to get her powers.

This is just about the kiss, nothing more.

Hmm, actually, we might speculate about what will come next! But personnaly, power-stealing is out! But I do think/hope that this will develop in a long-term relationship. At least longer than with this Aquaman guy of Volume 4 that I don't even remember the name! I mean, a girl can't kiss another girl out of the blue like that and they don't at least talk about it, right? (Or can they? lol)

Don't you know that's what college is for, and that all girls have a "lesbian moment" in college? [/sarcasm]

Yeah, well, Gretchen's actions don't seem to lead to simple ''experimentation''. The way the kiss looks in the promo, and all...

Well, I only broke out that response because that is my honest reaction to the idea. I need to see a Claire suddenly turns lesbo plot to take up the time of anything meaningful (rest assured Claire's lesbian affair WILL be shown more often than the carnival people's supposed INTEGRAL plot for this season) like I need a bullet in my brain.





Of course, don't expect to see anything interesting happen. It is prime time television, after all. The lesbian kiss has been done to death. Lost it's shock value when Roseanne did it on her show about a couple decades ago.

I hope they have a full blown sex scene we have to download from 9th wonders uncensored. Just saying.

Well, two little things: 1- I never saw Roseanne and 2- I know homosexual relationships happened a few times here and there in TV series (Xena, for exemple). But overall, there are quite rare! I guess I like this because I'm both a huge romantic and a strong defendant of homosexual rights!

So GO CLAITCHEN!

PS: Not to mention, if we ignore the fact that it's characters from a show, and we just look at that picture: That picture looks beautiful! Almost art!

But I totally get that some people hates it, for whatever reason it might be. Like you might think it's a little forced or something (even myself admit this kiss happens quite fast, but to me that's a general Heroes issue, not just a Claitchen one! ).

As I said before, I can't wait to see it and I hope that a lot of people aren't going to be upset with it. However, if they are, then this is really going to be a real Turkey for us Canadians so to speak because this episode next Monday is on the Canadian Thanksgiving and if people are offended it's going to ruin the mood up here. I just had to say that, so I hope it doesn't become a real turkey scene to ruin Thanksgiving up here

You're Canadian, too? Well hello there, fellow Canadian friend! How are you going, "hé"! lol (like we really say this word often!).

I don't think this will be as upsetting for us, for one thing because we're are, overally, more open to homosexuality up here in the North (gay marriage is possible country-wise!). Besides, it is just a matter of wether we like it or not, personnal opinions, you know!

Not to mention Thanksgiving is not as much of a celebration in Canada compared to the U.S. (or how I understand it is important in the U.S.). In my family, we never celebrated it...

But this is getting kinda off topic now! Let me put it back straight:

GO CLAITCHEN!!

Yeah, I live up here as well! I thought you might've read other posts where I put in a Canadian reference because when I like something, I really want the writers to put a Canadian spin on things. They really have to at some point on this show to bring more great entertainment and excitement. I also saw your location in your sig and I live across the bridge from you. Anyways; back on topic, I really wish that we could do something to help the ratings, but as Canadians we can't. I know some up here will have a problem seeing this next week, but I for one am not. I'm excited and I hope for the best and that this does not end up becoming in the spirit of Thanksgiving, a Turkey sort to speak. I know it won't, but others might think so. I know it will not

1. Homosexual relationships are rare enough on TV, sure, mainly because as a society we are just accepting them. Like Hordak said, they've lost their shock value. When I see girls kissing, yeah I'll admit it's a little more than interesting, but not really on TV. It's just nothing special anymore. I could care less if Claire and Gretchen kiss. I'm indifferent to it in all ways.

2 & 3. You and I have two different thoughts of what art is then. People kissing is just that: people kissing. I could care less if it's a man and a woman, two women, or two men. If people are actually in love, then I'll call it love and perhaps call it art. This thing with Gretchen and Claire is forced and way too quick. Obviously, it's Gretchen kissing Claire and Gretchen obviously has feelings for Claire. Is it meant to be a surprise and shocking? Yeah, but only for story purposes. Since it only has a bearing on the story, I just don't see why it had to happen. I don't care that it happens, but I wouldn't care if it didn't happen either. Like I said, I'm indifferent to it all.

If this kiss is meant to do something to help boost Heroes unexpectedly, then it won't work. Other than that, the kiss isn't at all big or shocking. It's just a kiss.

Just for the ''art'' part, I want to say something. I meant it as if we look at the picture outside the context! Like, as if someone who knows nothing of Heroes, didn't even know the series exist, and that this picture is taken from a spoiler of this serie. Under those conditions, yes, it's just a kiss, but there is some ambiance and beauty that surrounds this particular picture. The kiss is a kiss, but how it is shown, this, can be artistic! And yeah, this one is wonderfully executed!

For the rest, I've already shown that this beinga marketing ploy is very unlikely, as the initial plan was to make another relationship with another guy, and Hayden proposed something different. I've showed proof of that before. As for ratings going up, if they do thanks to that, it'll just be a beneficial side effect to this idea.

EDIT: By the way, don't tell me that homosexuality is all that accepted yet! California proved there is still a lot of work to be done, recently! And even here, in Canada, there is still a few homophobic guys and girls here and there! It's a great thing that you guys have evolved to the point where two people of the same sex kissing is as normal as a guy and a girl kissing, but don't think automatically that the rest of North America followed you on this. That sadly isn't the true.

AL BUNDY FTW!!!

I nearly fell out of my chair I was laughing so hard at this!!

My feelings on what this will lead to.

At Comic-Con, Hayden gave everyone an assurance that this scene would not cause a jump the shark moment.

Oh, well I guess that means we can rest easy, folks. Someone who gets paid by the people who put out the show said its gonna be okay. I can't think of any reason why that could be wrong..

If I didn't lay it on thick enough, since I apparently didn't last time, that was sarcasm.

Hayden said she pitched the idea herself to the writers; and at Comic-Con, she indicated that her character and Gretchen were going to have a nice "friendship", but not a real intimate one.

No, in the interview, Hayden said that the writers were going to put her in a relationship, and she suggested it be a chick for variety's sake. Whether she had done that or not, there was going to be a love interest (possibly one-sided like this one), and the majority of us would still be groaning at yet ANOTHER love interest.

At least this one is different! And is kinda cute, well I think it is personnally. If you saw the spoiler's 2 minutes scene, the way Gretchen's revelation of her feelings contrasted with Claire's accusation of betrayal was nice! And then the kiss, very cute! And then Claire's face: Priceless!

I checked around the web, the views for this spoilers are so damn mixed, it's unbelievable! Some love it, some hate it! As you probably well know by now, I'm in the first category! But I totally get that some people don't get it! This is a bold move indeed, and not everyone likes that!

One thing however, I want to speak out. Hating this upcoming scene, ok. But this maked-up argument that's it's a rating ploy and all: This is getting annoying! 1- It has been proven wrong and 2- Even if it were true, it doesn't have an influence in the quality of the scene itself! It'd be like being again world peace because some people might gain something out of it, things not as honorable (ok, this is an extreme exemple, it's just to illustrate the ''hidden agenda'' logical fallacy).

You can say you don't like it because it doesn't feel like Heroes. Or that it is OOC for Claire (I don't think it is (Claire-Elle), but you might). Or that it wasn't handled well. Or you can just hate it, without stating why: There is no need to speak out reasons to like or dislike a subjective opinion of quality. But if you state arguments, make sure they make senses please, not those kind of logical fallacies. 'cause, well, by nature, they don't make any sense!

EDIT: To bwm27: I kinda hope you're wrong and Riddler's right, on this one. To me, the Claitchen kiss only worth something if it leads to something. If it's just a kiss, then Claire's ''sorry, I don't like you that way'' and Gretchen's kinda sad but ''ok, let's be friend then'', well then I'll have to join side with all those who disliked the Claitchen idea! Which is kinda rare, I'm rarely on the ''haters'' side! But I will, if they just scrap out the lesbian relationship just after a kiss!

So, yeah, I won't judge the Claitchen only on the kiss, but also on what is coming afterward! For now, I think it's a nice move for the show and, like I said earlier, Gretchen's love declaration is kinda sweet! So I'm positive! But it has to lead somewhere to stay that way!

It already jumped the shark last season. It can't get any worse so I'm not worried.

Dear God. It's two girls kissing. And people talking from saving the show to jumping the shark?

Let them kiss and be done with it...

What I would do if I had the Haitian's ability...

1) Erase the term 'jumping the shark' from people's collective memory along with 'plot holes'.

That's pretty much it. Heroes' fandom jumps on those two terms so much that by this point, they've lost all meaning.


That said, this kiss? Desperate ratings ploy.

Like I said: 1- It's not, as the writers went with Hayden Panettiere's suggestion. Their original plan was another guy-girl relationship; and 2- EVEN IF it were true, it doesn't devaluate the Claitchen relationship.

I don't think it really matters whose suggestion it is. NBC have been promoting the hell out of that image everywhere, which to me only suggests one thing. And I personally don't really see a Claitchen scenario. You can't really have a relationship with a psychotic room mate that's obsessed with you (which I'm 95% certain is what Gretchen will turn out to be).

I can't think of a time when two girls kissing has turned me on less. Gretchen is so annoying, Claire should punch her in the face. But from what I understand, Gretchen kissing Claire is just a mindblowing cover for what she's really doing, which is recruiting Claire for the Carnival. Remember, Claire's pic was on that carny chick's back. They've recruited Hiro already. Nobody knows where Sylar is, including Sylar. But Claire is using her real name and should be easy to find. In fact, she's already been found.

lol, the goal is not to turn you on, it's a lesbian kiss! Lesbians are not on Earth for your little thing! lol

Jokes aside, this Gretchen-working-for-the-Carnival thing, I don't think that's really true. I've heard a lot of speculations about this one indeed, but I've saw no spoilers of the matter, nor any clue in the show that would indicate she's part of the Carnival's Powered Family, or even if she has a power!

That being said, that doesn't mean you're not right, and considering this is the '' Spoilers & Speculation section, ideas deserve to be there

My speculation, she's totally normal. Maybe a little obsessive, but normal! Since her introduction, I kinda considered her the girl version of Zack (from season 1, remember?). Totally normal, homosexual, and on whom Claire can trusts her secret on!

Who's right, who's wrong? Find out in a few episodes!

Sad to say, nothing could ever satisfy this odd and great group of fans. (well, consistent stories/powers could, but that is a matter for another thread)

The kiss thing seems to me to be a stunt, but I haven't seen the episode yet, so I'll reserve judgement.

I still think we ought to put a word filter in place. Jumping the shark would be turned into feeding the squirrel, and plothole would become brilliant idea.



No offence to any lesbians out there, but any lesbian relationship in any sort of mass media is sure to attract a huge number of male fans with an objective I'd rather not type out here. Just like "Brokeback Mountain" has mostly female fans. It's calculated by any means.

I don't say it doesn't, I said it's not the goal!

Irony of all, btw, I've saw a few who said they didn't liked the Claitchen thing because ''Gretchen is ugly''. That's were the reason! So, what, if she was hot, they'd like it?

I don't think she's ugly, personnally. She actually look the most normal girl of all, and she's kinda cute! But I disgress now! lol

So anyway, there is a difference between an objective and its consequences. Except for certain types of movie, the objective of homosexuality (wether real or fictionnal) is not for other's pleasure, but an expression of love that is beautiful and somewhat unusual! (Which is why I like this, like I said, I'm quite a romantic guy at heart! )). HOWEVER, yes, the consequences might be different, and results in others ''pleasure''. Even if that's not what Hayden or Madeline or the writers are aiming for!