Couldn't find another thread like this, but if such a thread exists, please provide a link.

I'm not complaining about the direction this season is going. In fact, I like it quite a bit compared to season 3(And I swear i'm the only heroes fan who liked season 2) but it seems like we lost track of the whole "hero" part of Heroes. At the beginning, the show was about the discovery of the character's inner strengths as well as the abilities and on what it means to be a hero. Everyone was trying to help someone else. Now, the show has become less about "Heroes" and more about "ultra-powerful people trying to be ultra-closed-minded and ultra-dramatic"

That pretty much is my only gripe with the show. Other than that, I love it!

Discuss to your heart's content.

Probably should be in General Discussion, not the Spoiler section...

But anyways, I agree. Our Heroes being actual heroes and human at the same time would be nice.

Well, some of them are trying. Most notably Peter, and Hiro. Claire never wanted to be a hero. Tracy is apparently trying to be a better person and help people, Matt has other things on his mind (pun intended), HRG is actually pretty helpful to humankind, Nathan is pretty much dead, Angela is being herself, and Mohinder is being absent...

I'd actually say that our heroes are much more heroic than they've been in some time. We've got two of them actively trying to help humankind, but I realise it's debatable how heroic the dial-a-hero service is...

And of the others, the more integer-minded people are also trying. I don't think that a show like Heroes, which has always been about how different people are and how differently they react to discovering superpowers, will ever bring all characters together in a joint hero venture. It did that at the end of season one, but at least for me I can say it would not have been logical to follow through with it in all aspects.

Not the only one! I particularly loved the idea that Hiro became the Heroe he most admired. Anyway, it's not about national heroes, right now Peter is the everyday hero!

Hey, they saved Muffin Man the cat didn't they?

Totally off topic, but mark my words, that cat will become integral to the plot.

I'd have to agree that their is a severe lack of heroic deeds for a show called heroes...

I like the new Peter that has actually accepted his powers and uses them to do good and make a difference. This is very refreshing from the damsel in distress Peter from previous seasons.

While Hiro is trying to be a Heroe most of the time he and Ando are just comic relief. I want less Comic relief Hiro and more bad ****** master of time and space Hiro. He should be more like a trump card then a side show.

Considering the fact that Kring admitted during S1 that calling the show Heroes was about the abilities, not the characters (sort of a take on Super-Heroes), and that it was a bit of a misnomer, I don't know what people were expecting.

There are no heroes in real life. There are people who do things that are considered heroic once in a while, but there are no Supermen or X-men in real life. (Ignore the powers- those type of people just don't exist.) And this show was never meant to lose that flavor- real people in unreal circumstances.

Such a pessimistic view of the world. Balderdash, I say. Are you forgetting, sir, about the hundreds of individuals who risk their lives for the safety of others? Firemen, Police officers, soldiers, et cetera.

No, actually I'm not.

I repeat: there are people who perform heroic actions.

However, this is about real people in the real world. The only difference is that they happen to have unusual gifts.

There are no heroes in the real world. A Hero is spotless, unblemished by corruption or dishonor.

An english teacher once told me that, according to the greeks, heroes must be flawed. They must undergo a period of darkness, corruption, and sometimes even evil so that they can overcome such adversities and save the day. If the hero were perfect, their actions would hardly be considered outstanding.

Hee, I'm liking that you used the word balderdash but really how often do you get to use a word like that in a sentence. A few more heroic deeds would be nice as you said.

Ohh and you are not the only one who enjoyed S2. I loved S2, too bad about the writers strike.

The point, however, is that they don't overcome them. Sometimes those "character defects" are overlooked in light of what they've done (like the corruption investigation into NYC's Giulianni that sort of just...vanished...after 9/11), but they don't actually overcome them.

And in both literature and cinema (both movies and television), the characters most relatable to people are those who are clearly not heroic. (How many people could truly relate to Aragorn in The Lord Of The Rings. Although they humanized him in the movie, in the books he was the Uncrowned King. There was never any doubt that he would take up the crown, if things worked out of course, and he never did a dishonorable thing in his life. On the other hand, Boromir is the one people relate to. Because, as often as not, he put the wrong foot down. He did the dishonorable thing at least as often as the honorable. But, at the end, his heroic action redeemed him.)

But, in real life, it doesn't work that way. The character flaws are still there. They don't overcome them, they just get to ignore them for a shining moment.

A heroic action does not make a hero.

And, to the point of the show, these are not heroes. They may, on occasion, perform heroic actions. Although that was always incredibly rare. (Save in cases like Peter's.)

An interesting point, Synch. I do seek explanation on one point, though. Why does it not redeem them? I shall use Anakin Skywalker as an example. He was never a truly evil person, he was led to his path of misdeed by a series of terribly traumatic events. However, in the end, he made the right decision and saved millions of lives. Why does this not show that he is a redeemed man.

And Tessa, It actually comes up more often than you think. Try it sometime.

I like that they're straying away from the "hero" approach. The past two seosons just seemed more like Marvel universe(not like there's anythign wrong with that.) than a supposbly real life story of people recieving abillities. It reminds me of Season 1, more story, less flash.

He was never a truly evil person? Torture...murder...genocide on planetary scales...Sorry, he was definitely evil.

Yes, his final act redeemed him to a degree. He died a good guy. But one heroic act does not a hero make.

I feel the same way about this season. I like it, and I think Heroes has got its groove back.

Vols 3 and 4 were filled with a few too many of the trappings that made me stray away from the DC animated universe. Vol 3 was to helter skelter with oddball powers, Vol 4, while better in that regard, was a little too dark.

Synch, I will yield that he committed acts of violence. By your own argument, though, an evil act does not make one evil.

An evil act doesn't make one completely evil. Nearly 2 full decades of evil acts, on the other hand...

...Makes a person violent, not evil.

..So, let me get this straight...

I go around for 2 decades. Killing people just because they tick me off, obliterating planets and generally running things to serve myself.

And I'm not evil?

As I said, an act that is out of keeping with your behavior is an abnormality. A series of acts that fall in line with your behavior? That's who you are.

Darth Vader was evil.

Can we get back to Heroes on this though?

As you wish, my master. (sorry, couldn't resist)

Back to Heroes, then.

If committing evil acts on a day to day basis makes one evil then I would have to argue that committing heroic acts on a day to day basis makes one a hero.

Heroism is not perfection. Absolute perfection would be godhood not heroism. So I say there are heroes in our normal everyday life. They are the ones who commit heroic acts as a way of life rather then as an accident. Almost every hero in literature had flaws and wasn't perfect.

Watching a story about people who's only motive is to be out for themselves and never commit any act of courage or selflessness is boring and to be honest if I believed that's all heroes was about I wouldn't have watched it past the first season. There are plenty of people trying to commit heroic acts especially in season 1. I just think that the story has deviated from that idea in season 2 and even worse in season 3. I hope season 4 puts them back on track and so far so good.

Really? Which characters were out trying to commit heroic acts in Season 1?

That would be...Hiro.

None of the others.

Nathan? Defined selfishness.
Peter? All he wanted was to be special. Selfishness, again.
Claire? She was nearly as selfish as Nathan. The one time she did something some people might call heroic, it was practically an accident.

Sometimes it doesn't just have to be a physical acts to define a hero, still I think the characters you list had just as many heroic moments as selfish. These people could have buried their heads in the sand and just pretended to be "normal".
Maybe heroism is running back into your house to stop a man who is about to explode. Maybe it's running off to Texas to save someone you don't know at the cost of your own life. Maybe its swooping in at that last crucial moment to do the right thing. Maybe it's locking dangerous people up despite the fact that in some cases it makes you a ******. I think the show has always done a good job of challenging what the idea of a hero is.

I also liked season 2 its not my FAV season ..but i liked it <3

But since you said that.. i sorta agree...like they kinda side tracked. But im not hating it.. im liking this season so far..im not a huge fan on the circus pple.. but u cant like EVERYTHING about the show... but i do love most of it

A hero is someone who shows great courage. Someone who steps above and beyond the call of duty.

Noah? Definitely showed courage, but what he did could hardly be called heroic. (Until the very end of the season- which is when all those actions happen in each season anyway.)
Claire? How is it courageous to do what she did- she can't die or even be permanently injured. And she knows this.
Nathan? The only courage he showed was in the finale. (S1 and S2. But not S3.)

Any heroism happened in the finale, not during the season.

Okay, how much do you need?

you have no idea..
Everyone has powers. Just like in the show 'Heroes'.
But most humans are 2 stupid, they are materialistic and have no idea what life is about.
wake up ppl, discover the powers that lie within you. anything is possible.
I feel bad for you ppl really...

Cool story, bro.

i agree on the "challenging what the idea of a hero is" part. it sums it up.

for me, what really matters is that they aberrated from the self-sufficient/neutral/indifferent/mundane stereotype of human nature in order to become heroic, in their own ways.

at least they tried.

Synch has an opinion which can't and won't be changed. As interesting as this conversation is, I really suggest not challenging Synch's opinion. You'll at least get to leave the thread with your sanity intact.

Though, I do have to say this to challenge Synch. You say Heroes are unblemished. We say Heroes can have their problems and flaws. To believe that Heroes can NOT exist within the real world, which you are positing in the end, means there is little hope for the future of our planet. You're basically saying that we're screwed since people can't be Heroes.

Basically, this conversation comes down to whether or not you have hope/believe in the ultimate good inside of people. That's what I see at least.

imo, just sharing, not challenging.
we humans have always had the "power" to choose in the primordial dichotomy within us: whether good or evil.
it just so happens that with so many worldly distractions abound, people tend to prefer evil. the majority stays neutral, thus the stereotyping. only a few strong willed people stay good, not always, but as often as they can, managing to be heroic amidst their daily problems and flaws.

these are people i call heroes; and i've seen such traits on the show.

I have no sanity to begin with.

And clembear, I really like your explanation.

And someone finally gets it.

You put your hope in the thought that people can "rise above" themselves and do the right thing even as often as they do the wrong thing (I'm not even going to propose the laughable concept that they'll do the right thing more often than the wrong)...and you're setting yourself up to be disappointed.

thanks jackrabbit.

btw. as for me, i wouldn't be so cynical on world views.

So then, from my observation, this isn't a debate anymore, but whether or not you have hope at all.

Now, if you wanna debate Cynical Synch, heh, then I suggest becoming cynical yourself and see who can be more... cynical, I guess. That's the only way this will become a debate again, haha.

I never intended it to be a debate, merely a peaceful sharing of ideas.

lol, That wasn't directed at you specifically, but everyone in general.

Sad thing though? When talking with Synch, everything is a debate. Literally. Tell him what you had for lunch, and he'll attempt to prove you wrong and tell you what you really ate. Had a turkey club sandwich? Nope, sorry, you didn't. It was bread with meat slapped on it.

He would then go on to tell you what a real Turkey Club is... oh, the humanity!

Well the debate now goes that this is not a thread to debate Synch's ability to debate or the simple ability to debate.
So maybe we could get back to the topic on hand or simply move on?

Plus while it may be simply fun, Synch may not appreciate the stereotypes or accusations you are throwing at him then it could be considered flaming. Just sayin...

lol, It's Synch. I'd expect him to mess with me right back. Synch's got a thick skin, we all know that, and my words will in no way change that Bea. As we all know, topics go off-topic all the time (sadly enough). This thread would die without people like me!

lol, Oh well.

Right! Back on topic. Just shovin something out there. I'm very glad that some of the more recent episodes have taken a turn towards my wishes!

--LMAO. oh, the hilarity! agreed.

anyway, with emma cooolidge and the carnival around, Heroes is gonna be more colorful.