Seriously What was that??!!?!?

guess we'll find out

RIP Mohinder. You is DED.

So three weeks earlier. With the timeline is that about episode 4.01 before the funeral?

Does Mohinder have something to do with Jacob or his death? I need a screencap but was that dirt/earth in him or on his shirt?

I'm simply glad to see the guy and know they didn't just forget about him. I can't wait to see what happened and how Hiro can help.

I thought we were going to see Joseph.

Going by what we saw, I guess someone called it...

guess hiro is going to save mohinder now

I got to thinking that as well. Mohinder has been referenced twice so far in this arc so it means he's going to be saved by Hiro.

My guess is that Samuel went to recruit Mohinder, and it didn't quite go as planned.



Wasn't it eight weeks earlier?



So did I, at first. I thought maybe Samuel killed Joseph.

I don't know. That's why I asked. Lol I honestly don't get hung up on the time line. Way to confusing. But now I am curious.

I'm honestly asking, too... which just goes to show how little I pay attention sometimes. I was sitting right in front of the TV and I can't even remember what it was.

samuel said it was eight weeks to hiro. And to me it looked like samuel shot rocks/dirt through mohinder. so im guessing there was a fight

Glad I'm not the only one.



Ok so eight weeks. How long ago was that funeral? I just want to know if whatever happened to Mohinder had anything to do with Jacobs death. I am sure I'll find out in a week but I just really want to know now.

*is impatient*

I can't wait to see this either. Mohinder maybe dead or he might not. Will have to wait and see what Hiro can do for him. I'm excited to this though and what it might be.

Joesph. The funeral was Joseph.

YES!!!

Oh Mohinder, I KNEW you were too important for the writers to abandon! /spam
Talk about making us wait for it, huh? And hey Hiro will save him too!

I really hope that we get to see the fight between Samuel & Mohinder!

I would just like to point out that I called this... Last week I posted a thread that I thought that Mohinder and Joseph were the same person and that Mohinder and Samuel was connected based on the fact that Samuel's voice has replaced Mohinder's at the beginning of the show.. A lot of people thought I was crazy. I guess not. The plot has thickened and now the season is up for grabs. So, check this out and this time everyone please listen... Redemption, the title of this show, is not only about redeeming characters, but the writers are on track to redeem the show, not that the show has gone bad, but the word redeem mean to bring back... Everything is going back to what it was suppsoed to be or to some extent. The writers are even given us hints about what they are doing, which is so cool. Hiro calls Samuel the Butterfly Effect man or something like that... think about what that means. That no matter what you do to change something, it always happens in some form (think of the movie). Hiro and Charlie are destined to be apart, be it through death or separation. Just like the future from season one, is destined to happen in some form. It's so cool. Here's the last piece of evidence. Peter is season 1 had the ability to absorb powers, this made him the most powerful of them all (aside from Sylar) but remember even then future Hiro mentioned his scar. Peter eventually got Claires power, but obviously he had to lost it because future Peter had a scar. The season one future is still in play in some regards because it is the butterfly effect. It's just a different way of getting there (i.e. Sylar posing as Nathan in season 1 future and Sylar not being Nathan in season 4).





Mohinder is Joseph and Joseph is Mohinder. Mohinder probably was just going by a different name. So classic. It's very much like Magneto and Professor X.

So potentially Samual kills/injures Mohinder. Do you think he did it to take over the opening monologues? >.< (If it isn't obvious enough I am kidding..)

Last thought and then I'm going to bed... Have anyone ever thought to think about the meaning of Mohinder's name? Well, Mohinder means "Great Rain" and the name Suresh means "the Lord of the gods." Interesting huh? Last the name Joseph means, "God gives the increase" The names kind of connect. Rain = increase = the Lord of the gods, he was a leader amonst the people in the carnival. It all connects and is deeper than we know.

lol you've got to be kidding me.

Yeah! The pay has to be great:) lol

So, that is why Mohinder's pointless narration hasn't been heard this season.

LOL

I really do miss his narration at the beginning of the show, his accent gave it a kick.

Question:What did Samuel say to Mohinder?

I know he said,"I'm sorry." But I thought he also called him "Joseph".

Maybe I heard it wrong.

Mohinder does not = Joseph. Many promises. Joseph was his bio brother, or at least did not grow up in India.

Of course! The fiend!


Seriously though, that was quite a shock. After an episode I wasn't sure how to feel about that really kicked me in the stomach.

My questions are:

1. Why did Samual kill Mohinder?
2. Why does he want to save Mohinder to the extent that he's gone to such great lengths to manipulate Hiro?
3. and why does he feel such remorse over killing Mohinder?
4. What is it about those events that would undo all the "good" done at the carnival?
5. Will Hiro be able to save Mohinder?

There may still be a link between Mohinder's death and Joseph's, but the whole "they are the same person" thing is just kinda dumb and makes no sense.

I remember you posting that you thought they were the same person, and I believe it more now then I did last week. Nice call

1. We'll see in a future episode.
2. Because Mohinder is part of the ''specials''.*
3. Because Mohinder is part of the ''specials''.*
4. With Joseph gone, Samuel kinda act as their leader now, right? Well, if they find out that he killed another super-powered individual, that would be the end of him!
5. We'll see in a future episode.

*I'm saying those because, to me, it's clear that the Carnival in general, and Samuel in particular, sees powered people as persons they must protect, their ''family''. And that includes people that aren't recruted yet. Thus, Mohinder is part of their family, so Samuel killed a brother, or a cousin, or whatever he'd refer Mohinder to. Not a biological brother, but a brother.

Well, anyway, that's my view of the Carnival. I think I understand well their point of view, but I might be wrong.

This isn't a soap opera...

That makes no sense whatsoever. I honestly don't think the writers are dumb enough for an idea like that.

Still doesn't make sense why Samual would have to manipulate Hiro so much.

I'm sure if Samual had explained the situation Hiro would have been more than happy to jump back in time and save Mohinder's life. Why then trap Charlie in time?

I think that Mohinder's death is only a tiny part of what Samual is trying to change. If we think of a series of events that might start with Mohinder's death as a set of dominos. By sending Hiro back to save Mohinder, Samual is stopping that first domino from falling.

Samual seems very much motivated by three things: The need to protect the carnival and his family, the need to protect other special people, and his brother's death. Yes Mohinder is special and has powers, but I still can't stop thinking that this is about much more than just Mohinder and saving one person who was killed.

Thing that bothers me is that the gap between Fugitives and Redemption is 6 weeks. Right now we can assume about a week has gone by since the start of the season. Leading 7 weeks. Samual killing Mohinder 8 weeks ago seems to be off and Peter aquired Mohinders power sometime within the 6 week Gap.

Theres more to this or the writers ****** up with the time line.


People need to stop saying Mohinder is Joesph because thats obviously not true. Joseph was pretty much the ringleader at the Carnival before Samual. As all previous hints inply

I think they could just say that two weeks have passed since the beginning of the season. That's easily believable. If not then a LOT happened in Claire's first week of college. Definately at least two weeks has gone by.

I reckon Mohinder's death probably occurs a few days after they burned "Sylar's" body.

My theory is that Mohinder had gone back to his father's research to try and find other specials (like Sylar had told Matt when he tried to call Mohinder), and found Samuel. Upon asking for a display of his ability, Samuel accidentally killed Mohinder.

On the rewatch :

Okay, so first off there's a fire going in the middle of the room? Part of the aftermath? We're not talking about a torch or anything, right? Just making sure.

Second...anyone notice what both Samuel AND Mohinder were wearing? Looked like some kind of uniforms...maybe bullet proof vests? If they're wearing the same uniforms I'm betting they at least STARTED out working together.

I'm thinking that maybe Samuel didn't kill Mohinder on purpose. Perhaps they were going after a third special, a dangerous one. Joseph, perhaps? A lot of people assume Samuel to be the more evil of the two brothers, but we've not seen any concrete evidence of that, have we? And during the fight Samuel accidentally kills Mohinder. Like, a real accident, not a Samuel-manipulation-special. From there, everything goes to crap for Samuel.

Just a thought. That part at the end with the identical vests was what made me rewatch in the first place, and I'm even more convinced now that at least to start off, Mohinder was working WITH Samuel.

Also, if Mohinder=Joseph in ANY way I'll probably just cry, that's how stupid that would be.

Zensu-

I believe from what we've seen of Samuel and his impressive control and knowledge of his ability that it's highly unlikely he'd accidentally do anything with his power that he really didn't want to do. Except, perhaps, if he were distracted...

I spotted his name on the opening credits but still totally forgot >.<
He seems genuinely sorry, so I'd probably say it was an accident, maybe they were fighting and Samuel got too emotional?

P R E S C I E N T

Well, in the little clip there he looked like he was frightened at what he had done, and it was eight weeks ago (right?), so we don't know how much control Samuel had back then. Mohinder's death could've led Samuel to focus on working to control his ability, but it's all up in the air till we see what happens.

-shrugs- Just a theory.

Any storyline that could shoehorn Mohinder into being Samuel's brother Joseph, who he grew up with, would be godawful. I mean, really really bad, with plotholes galore from square one. I'm not going to lie like some people do and threaten to stop watching the show; I'd probably still watch. But man, would that reveal be craptastic.

I'm sticking with Samuel and Mohinder were involved in a fight together against a third person, and thats why they were wearing identical armored vests. At some point Samuel accidentally strikes Mohinder instead of the mysterious third party. (Joseph?)

Has it been stated that Samuel and Joseph STARTED the Carnival? Or is it possible that it's been a special's haven for at least a couple of generations? For all we know the research Mohinder went off to study at the end of last season had to do with a certain Carnival...

That all sounds pretty solid theorizing.

As for the Joseph=Mohinder crap, I'm not even gonna mention it anymore it's so stupid and I encourage others to do the same.


Joseph killing Mohinder makes sense because if the Carnival members found out that Joseph, the person they are all encouraged to look up to by Samual, killed someone special and Samual failed to prevent it then that would unravel everything the Carnival was. Either that or somehow Mohinder's death led to the events of Joseph's death. I think the deaths are connected somehow.

It is more likely that it is an accident.
Unless if he was doing something that would endanger the Carnival, and I don't think he would be, then Samual wouldn't really have a reason to kill Mohinder. And also then he wouldn't be very sorry about it.

However I am looking forward to seeing what happened (even though it looks like from next week's preview that we're gonna have to wait at least two weeks to do so) because I'm interested to see Samual and Mohinder interact.

Perhaps Samuel and Joseph's parents were at Coyote Sands (Samuel doesn't appear to be as old as Angela or the other Company founders), escaped, and founded a carnival for people like them?

That's possible I guess, but we also know that Samuel's family lived in the guest house or whatever it was at that mansion, working as servants. So unless Samuel is older then he looks, like Angela's age, then I don't think the timelines would mesh up for that.

Quick edit to clarify : Samuel actually remembers himself living in that mansion. So...either someone else founded the Carnival around the time of or before Coyote Sands, or Samuel and Joseph started it sometime after.

Cristine Rose DOB 1/31/51
Robert Knepper DOB 7/8/59 8.5 years difference in age. Close enough for Sam & Joe's parents to have been there given the ages of the founders at that time.

Just curious about the moment in time that Samuel chose to have Hiro take him back to.

I assume that Hiro can control the exact moment in time that he is trying to take him and Samuel. If that assumption is correct and he wants to change Mohinder's death then why travel back in time to after he has died? Why not travel back in time 5 minutes before he is suppose to die?

In the same sense I don't see why Hiro doesn't just turn around at the Diner after he notices Charlie is gone and travel back in time by ten minutes and grab Charlie and disappear before going outside. I mean the guy can travel through time for Samuel but not for himself?

I think Samuel wanted to get back to the present time because he didn't have the time to convince Hiro to go back 5 minutes before Mohinders death. That scene was fairly quick and I think that Samuel was stranded in time 3 years ago because Arnold might have died by then. So Samuel's best decision was to atleast have Hiro take him to present time and then worry about Mohinder after.
As far as Hiro going back and grabbing Charlie, I guess it's possible, but what then? Now there would be a third Hiro in that time and how do you think the other Hiro's in that timeline will take to the fact that Charlie vanished? Plus, who's to say that Samuel wouldn't just capture Charlie some other time? Hiro needs to deal with this situation head on and not jump around creating an ever more convoluted space time.

I am just curious at how many of you are writers? Because this is how writers think. A lot of time, we tend to look at shows and comics and stories with the perception of a fan (that we are) and what we want to see, but what continues to keep us hooked and watching and waiting is the writers ability to deliver something different. This the precise reason why what I am saying is true about Joseph and Mohinder being the same person. This is why I was right in my post a while back. Seriously, Mohinder has been a staple of the show since the beginning. He noticeably wasn't around in the beginning of this season. From a writing standpoint there has to a purpose and a reason. Even if he was not with the rest of the heroes, he would still be somewhere, but we find out the reason he is not somewhere is because he is dead. Now, we knew from the beginning of this season that this "Joseph" guy was dead and we knew something was up with Samuel concerning it. It is OBIVIOUS THAT THE TWO OF THEM ARE THE SAME. Again from a story-telling standpoint, they had to give Mohinder a different name in order to give the shock value for the revelation in this episode. It would have had no effect if Sam had said in the very first episode of the season, "our brother, Mohinder." I'm sorry that a lot of you might not like the idea, but the alternative is that two people are dead then instead of one -- Joseph and Mohinder. No one has mentioned two deaths have they? Only one. Thus, Joseph = Mohinder. And the probability of it is good, not stupid. Maybe there are other reasons that we will find out in future episodes concerning Mohinder's name being Joseph. But to dismiss it because you do not like the idea is ludicrous, especially when the writing is on the wall. Go deeper. Have anyone ever thought about why Samuel is named Samuel? There are bioblical ties there. Remember he baptized Sylar -- who like a chosen one for them. He refers to them as family -- Joseph was his brother, not by blood, but by conversion, baptism into the carnival family. Samuel is the religious zealot of mutants or people with abilities while Mohinder was the scientific counterpart. They probably butt heads on a lot of stuff. That makes sense, even if it is not how it plays out. Having Mohinder and Samuel going after a rogue mutant/person with abilties is very campy to be honest. Samuel thinks of them as family, why would he do that? That's why he brought Hiro in, because He doesn't want to be the one to have killed "one of them." As for the name Samuel, in the Bible, he was a judge -- the one that annointed David who would become King later. Does Samuel not act as a judge? He did in the Jeremy incident. Again, go deeper guys. Heroes is treading on a new path, one of epic and biblica proportions with Samuel and the Carnival. It's all real cool. As for the Soap Opera comment, soap operas are some of the best entertainment on TV and most dramas take from soap opera elements. So, maybe. It's already soap opera like with Nathan being Claire's estranged father. I say bravo to Heroes this year, for taking the show to a new and different place. It is obvious that the creators want the show to expand and take on the form of not just a comic but of an epic. That calls for diversity and chance taking and going into stories that might stretch the brains and already preconceived notions of its fans. Bravo to Heroes! Let's be open minded and not think that we know it all because we don't. Having said that -- I could be wrong too, but I doubt it

wall of text =

learn to use paragraphs pleaseeee

There's really nothing else to say about this until we find out. You have said everything that needs to be said and honestly I kind of agree with you. I just hope the episode turns out good!

Stream of thought. Will do:)

Bman, your theory might hold water if the known histories of Joseph and Mohinder didn't have numerous contradictions.

14 years ago, Joseph was the leader of a carnival of specials.
In 2006, Mohinder didn't believe specials existed.