Full Version: Peters Power!
Ok guys I feel like i watch this show just to see if Peter will get the ability to hold to more than 1 power... I get frustrated each episode wanting to see it happen... there have been so many opportunities for the writers to write this in.. please someone give me closer... Will Peter get his EM back and able to hold on to more than 1 power? Does any one have an insight on what will happen...Im not talking about theories I have gone to so many threads and read everything on theories... I need help coping with this..lol it literally frustrates me to the point where they NEED to fix this.. Otherwise i feel the show will lose a lot of viewers...
As I've stated before...fairly repeatedly actually, lol: You can have multi-powered Peter or you can have "smart" Peter, you can't have both. (There has to be a limit on his power- if he's multi-powered, that limit is that he reacts emotionally as opposed to actually thinking.)
But you know what if they want to call this Season Redemption than they need to fix what has happened.. Do you honestly believe that there has to be a limit to Peter (i prefer to have a smart and powerful peter), they didnt give a limit to Sylar (except by erasing his memory, which i am sure he will get back).. He still has all his powers and he is smart in using them.. Season one didn't have limits... Think back to 5 years gone in season 1 Peter was deemed a Leader of some sort...Everyone looked to him.. This show is called HEROES.. if they want to limit him find another way because they need to fix this.. like i said Its not just me who wants peter to have his EM back... I believe the show needs the (limitless) strong powers ..Sylar, Peter, Hiro, and whomever the villain or villains are each season...and yes...*sigh* even Claire..
In 5YG, the "leader" was Hiro. Peter was hiding in the bar.
In S1 there were definite limits on Peter's power- the fact that he was a purely emotional reactor- not a logical thinker.
You can't have a smart Peter with the power he had- it's impossible to write it in any believable way.
In S1 there were definite limits on Peter's power- the fact that he was a purely emotional reactor- not a logical thinker.
You can't have a smart Peter with the power he had- it's impossible to write it in any believable way.
Honestly, Synch's right. Here's another angle on it though.
Peter is the Hero. He's the guy on this show that people see and say, "Oh, he's the Superman of Heroes, right?" Sure, Superman had multiple powers, but he also had his weaknesses. Kryptonite was one of those weaknesses, along with the people he cared about. You have one very real limitation to Superman's ability and another one created within the archetype of the hero itself. To be a hero is a sacrifice. When you have people you love, they become a weakness. That's how it is.
With Peter, his abilities are based on emotions. His emotions trigger things within him. It comes with his personality. He plays the role of the hero, like I said. He feels such intense emotions, his abilities don't always work properly. Give him multiple abilities and he doesn't know what to do. He becomes incapable of actually concentrating on a single effort. All of that power and yet he still can't think of the right thing to do.
He can have all the power in the world, but he'll still be stupid because of it. It's how his character is. Peter is and will always be an extremely emotional character. Add his family, people he's close to, and you have a cocktail for massive destruction. Peter having multiple abilities leads only to problems.
So far though, we haven't really mentioned any major limitations to Peter. Sure, there's the emotional aspect which ties in heavily to his inability to control his powers, but that's within the character's mind. Peter does not have any weakness to radiation coming from the remnants of a dead planet. He is simply an emotional monster of utter destruction that can't think for itself. How do we fix this? Simple.
Limit the amount of powers he can take at one time. This has been done. Peter now can only use one power at a time. Because of the severe lack of abilities, the removal of such a vast scope of power, Peter has been allowed to really evaluate himself. The abilities were taken away, no longer at the forefront of his thoughts. The abilities were always there, always the biggest aspect of his life. He didn't have the time to fully master who he was as a person and could not truly claim his title as a hero.
Now that he's had the time to really think about who he is and what he wants to do, Peter is finally on the path to doing something good. Sure, he's not stopping a bomb, preventing a virus, or rescuing people from the clutches of a corrupt government task force; what he is doing is saving lives. That's all he ever wanted to do. He never really wanted big time things. He just wanted to do good deeds and help people, little by little. He's gotten his limitation, his emotions are still intact, his family is still there, still a weakness like they should be...
If anything, Peter has developed exactly how he should have developed. He is now a singularly focused force of heroism devoted to saving lives and doing the simple things like holding a door open for people or just having a chat with a deaf woman who could be so much more than what she thinks she is. The abilities just got in the way of that. Tone down the powers and we get the Peter we have now. A great guy who is focused more on the human aspect of life, not the superpowered one.
Peter is the Hero. He's the guy on this show that people see and say, "Oh, he's the Superman of Heroes, right?" Sure, Superman had multiple powers, but he also had his weaknesses. Kryptonite was one of those weaknesses, along with the people he cared about. You have one very real limitation to Superman's ability and another one created within the archetype of the hero itself. To be a hero is a sacrifice. When you have people you love, they become a weakness. That's how it is.
With Peter, his abilities are based on emotions. His emotions trigger things within him. It comes with his personality. He plays the role of the hero, like I said. He feels such intense emotions, his abilities don't always work properly. Give him multiple abilities and he doesn't know what to do. He becomes incapable of actually concentrating on a single effort. All of that power and yet he still can't think of the right thing to do.
He can have all the power in the world, but he'll still be stupid because of it. It's how his character is. Peter is and will always be an extremely emotional character. Add his family, people he's close to, and you have a cocktail for massive destruction. Peter having multiple abilities leads only to problems.
So far though, we haven't really mentioned any major limitations to Peter. Sure, there's the emotional aspect which ties in heavily to his inability to control his powers, but that's within the character's mind. Peter does not have any weakness to radiation coming from the remnants of a dead planet. He is simply an emotional monster of utter destruction that can't think for itself. How do we fix this? Simple.
Limit the amount of powers he can take at one time. This has been done. Peter now can only use one power at a time. Because of the severe lack of abilities, the removal of such a vast scope of power, Peter has been allowed to really evaluate himself. The abilities were taken away, no longer at the forefront of his thoughts. The abilities were always there, always the biggest aspect of his life. He didn't have the time to fully master who he was as a person and could not truly claim his title as a hero.
Now that he's had the time to really think about who he is and what he wants to do, Peter is finally on the path to doing something good. Sure, he's not stopping a bomb, preventing a virus, or rescuing people from the clutches of a corrupt government task force; what he is doing is saving lives. That's all he ever wanted to do. He never really wanted big time things. He just wanted to do good deeds and help people, little by little. He's gotten his limitation, his emotions are still intact, his family is still there, still a weakness like they should be...
If anything, Peter has developed exactly how he should have developed. He is now a singularly focused force of heroism devoted to saving lives and doing the simple things like holding a door open for people or just having a chat with a deaf woman who could be so much more than what she thinks she is. The abilities just got in the way of that. Tone down the powers and we get the Peter we have now. A great guy who is focused more on the human aspect of life, not the superpowered one.
I'm going to go ahead and move this to the Petrelli subforum in the Character Subforums. I'm almost tempted to close it since there's so many topics already and no definitive answer, but I won't.
QUOTE (RiddlerHanjinome @ Nov 11 2009, 10:02 AM) 
I'm going to go ahead and move this, but I won't.
Right now it is on two sides...
The link is still in the other area, but it redirects here. That's how moving things works.
im not saying he shouldnt have a weakness.... and yes i do like him like this... what i am saying is when will he be more.. i like he is saving lives.. But he needs to be bigger than that.. IMO peter is the opposite of what sylar is... but right now he is very weak Strong Heart...yes... Powerful..no... So when sylar comes back to normal.. he needs to be ready..
My whole point to begin with wasnt to argue who peter is or what his emotion state is..
Its WHEN WILL HE GET HIS F ING MULTi POWERS BACK??!! lmao...
like i said ive gone to EVERY thread imaginable and read every comment on subject.. i just need to know when it will happen... lol
ITS buggin me!
My whole point to begin with wasnt to argue who peter is or what his emotion state is..
Its WHEN WILL HE GET HIS F ING MULTi POWERS BACK??!! lmao...
like i said ive gone to EVERY thread imaginable and read every comment on subject.. i just need to know when it will happen... lol
ITS buggin me!
It might not happen, and I'm hoping it doesn't. Peter is better this way, smarter.
QUOTE (Requiem191 @ Nov 11 2009, 01:09 AM)
Honestly, Synch's right. Here's another angle on it though.
Peter is the Hero. He's the guy on this show that people see and say, "Oh, he's the Superman of Heroes, right?" Sure, Superman had multiple powers, but he also had his weaknesses. Kryptonite was one of those weaknesses, along with the people he cared about. You have one very real limitation to Superman's ability and another one created within the archetype of the hero itself. To be a hero is a sacrifice. When you have people you love, they become a weakness. That's how it is.
With Peter, his abilities are based on emotions. His emotions trigger things within him. It comes with his personality. He plays the role of the hero, like I said. He feels such intense emotions, his abilities don't always work properly. Give him multiple abilities and he doesn't know what to do. He becomes incapable of actually concentrating on a single effort. All of that power and yet he still can't think of the right thing to do.
He can have all the power in the world, but he'll still be stupid because of it. It's how his character is. Peter is and will always be an extremely emotional character. Add his family, people he's close to, and you have a cocktail for massive destruction. Peter having multiple abilities leads only to problems.
So far though, we haven't really mentioned any major limitations to Peter. Sure, there's the emotional aspect which ties in heavily to his inability to control his powers, but that's within the character's mind. Peter does not have any weakness to radiation coming from the remnants of a dead planet. He is simply an emotional monster of utter destruction that can't think for itself. How do we fix this? Simple.
Limit the amount of powers he can take at one time. This has been done. Peter now can only use one power at a time. Because of the severe lack of abilities, the removal of such a vast scope of power, Peter has been allowed to really evaluate himself. The abilities were taken away, no longer at the forefront of his thoughts. The abilities were always there, always the biggest aspect of his life. He didn't have the time to fully master who he was as a person and could not truly claim his title as a hero.
Now that he's had the time to really think about who he is and what he wants to do, Peter is finally on the path to doing something good. Sure, he's not stopping a bomb, preventing a virus, or rescuing people from the clutches of a corrupt government task force; what he is doing is saving lives. That's all he ever wanted to do. He never really wanted big time things. He just wanted to do good deeds and help people, little by little. He's gotten his limitation, his emotions are still intact, his family is still there, still a weakness like they should be...
If anything, Peter has developed exactly how he should have developed. He is now a singularly focused force of heroism devoted to saving lives and doing the simple things like holding a door open for people or just having a chat with a deaf woman who could be so much more than what she thinks she is. The abilities just got in the way of that. Tone down the powers and we get the Peter we have now. A great guy who is focused more on the human aspect of life, not the superpowered one.
Peter is the Hero. He's the guy on this show that people see and say, "Oh, he's the Superman of Heroes, right?" Sure, Superman had multiple powers, but he also had his weaknesses. Kryptonite was one of those weaknesses, along with the people he cared about. You have one very real limitation to Superman's ability and another one created within the archetype of the hero itself. To be a hero is a sacrifice. When you have people you love, they become a weakness. That's how it is.
With Peter, his abilities are based on emotions. His emotions trigger things within him. It comes with his personality. He plays the role of the hero, like I said. He feels such intense emotions, his abilities don't always work properly. Give him multiple abilities and he doesn't know what to do. He becomes incapable of actually concentrating on a single effort. All of that power and yet he still can't think of the right thing to do.
He can have all the power in the world, but he'll still be stupid because of it. It's how his character is. Peter is and will always be an extremely emotional character. Add his family, people he's close to, and you have a cocktail for massive destruction. Peter having multiple abilities leads only to problems.
So far though, we haven't really mentioned any major limitations to Peter. Sure, there's the emotional aspect which ties in heavily to his inability to control his powers, but that's within the character's mind. Peter does not have any weakness to radiation coming from the remnants of a dead planet. He is simply an emotional monster of utter destruction that can't think for itself. How do we fix this? Simple.
Limit the amount of powers he can take at one time. This has been done. Peter now can only use one power at a time. Because of the severe lack of abilities, the removal of such a vast scope of power, Peter has been allowed to really evaluate himself. The abilities were taken away, no longer at the forefront of his thoughts. The abilities were always there, always the biggest aspect of his life. He didn't have the time to fully master who he was as a person and could not truly claim his title as a hero.
Now that he's had the time to really think about who he is and what he wants to do, Peter is finally on the path to doing something good. Sure, he's not stopping a bomb, preventing a virus, or rescuing people from the clutches of a corrupt government task force; what he is doing is saving lives. That's all he ever wanted to do. He never really wanted big time things. He just wanted to do good deeds and help people, little by little. He's gotten his limitation, his emotions are still intact, his family is still there, still a weakness like they should be...
If anything, Peter has developed exactly how he should have developed. He is now a singularly focused force of heroism devoted to saving lives and doing the simple things like holding a door open for people or just having a chat with a deaf woman who could be so much more than what she thinks she is. The abilities just got in the way of that. Tone down the powers and we get the Peter we have now. A great guy who is focused more on the human aspect of life, not the superpowered one.
Well, I agree with you on some points, but aren't we all forgetting the scene in Season1 where present Hiro, is in the future with future Hiro and Peter? Remember Sylar has taken Nathan's place, and in the middle of a speech gets a phone call from Parkman, he flies off, goes to where Peter and Hiro are holed up, reaches through the door and pulls Peter through, Peter says "My brother can't do that , who are you?" Sylar reveals his true identity, then Peter and Sylar both pull the flaming hands bit, and Peter says "You're gonna pay for what you did to my brother, what you did in his name!" They rush each other and it cuts to the other side of the door where we see a bunch of lights, flashing, explosions, etc. I got wood on that scene, it was what we all felt the season was leading up to. The ultimate showdown between the ultimate force of Evil, and the ultimate force of good. I think many like myself, want to see that fight, I wanna see the cage match!! So I don't mind if we pussyfoot around a bit with Peter and his woefully inadequate ability to seem to get his act together as long as this ends as we all believe it should. Peter and Gabriel Gray must have a reckoning, it has to be just the 2 of them, they both have to have awesome powers, the downside is this. Even though that fight is what we want to see think about it, it's gonna be another Superman vs. Doomsday slugfest I was really bummed to see the man of steel get whipped in what basically came down to a run of the mill street brawl. I guess my point is this. When you have 2 charechters that both would basically be omnipotent, how do you kill off one and not the other. I believe the inevitable conclusion will be Peter besting Sylar, but at the cost of his own life. Any other ending will be picked to death by fans. This way good conquers evil, but at the ultimate cost. Peter gets to save the world, and be a martyr, so the other heroes can live in peace
I think a lot of people are missing some points here. First, I'm sure everyone's aware of this, but this is a ridiculously complex story that we're commenting on here. Every future episode, every flash back... these are things that could be, might be, have been or would be if only..
Secondly, Sylar. I really like what they're doing w/him this season. He doesn't want to be that monster that he had become and it's redemption because he has to face it, accept it and decide what to do after that point. I don't want Sylar to become a homicidal maniac. I want him to develop into more. But we see how his attitude is like a virus with how he infected Matt and we got a taste of it before (I think season 3) when Peter showed up Sylar's house and took his ability. I think there's a message in there somewhere... call me crazy.
Last. Peter. Let us not forget that these powers develop. We picked up with Pete discovering the first aspect of his ability (Hiro too and all the rest, but that's another thing). It's possible that holding onto one ability is part of his development. Maybe when he goes onto the next phase he'll be able to call up any power he can imagine at will... and hopefully, he'll be a more thinking and focused person because of the time he spent making music light up. haha.
Secondly, Sylar. I really like what they're doing w/him this season. He doesn't want to be that monster that he had become and it's redemption because he has to face it, accept it and decide what to do after that point. I don't want Sylar to become a homicidal maniac. I want him to develop into more. But we see how his attitude is like a virus with how he infected Matt and we got a taste of it before (I think season 3) when Peter showed up Sylar's house and took his ability. I think there's a message in there somewhere... call me crazy.
Last. Peter. Let us not forget that these powers develop. We picked up with Pete discovering the first aspect of his ability (Hiro too and all the rest, but that's another thing). It's possible that holding onto one ability is part of his development. Maybe when he goes onto the next phase he'll be able to call up any power he can imagine at will... and hopefully, he'll be a more thinking and focused person because of the time he spent making music light up. haha.
SlowRhyme,
You wrote: "...Sylar. I really like what they're doing w/him this season. He doesn't want to be that monster that he had become and it's redemption because he has to face it, accept it and decide what to do..."
I would agree except for one major distinction, Sylar and Gabriel are not one, are not the same. It is Gabriel who regrets the past deeds and not his alter ego (Sylar), who continues killing indiscriminately just to make his point. Sylar possessed Gabriel, even as he possesses Mathew now.
I join you in the wish that Gabriel could find redemption for the deeds committed while under the influence of Sylar--the personification of his IA's insatiable, malignant "Hunger".
You wrote: "...Sylar. I really like what they're doing w/him this season. He doesn't want to be that monster that he had become and it's redemption because he has to face it, accept it and decide what to do..."
I would agree except for one major distinction, Sylar and Gabriel are not one, are not the same. It is Gabriel who regrets the past deeds and not his alter ego (Sylar), who continues killing indiscriminately just to make his point. Sylar possessed Gabriel, even as he possesses Mathew now.
I join you in the wish that Gabriel could find redemption for the deeds committed while under the influence of Sylar--the personification of his IA's insatiable, malignant "Hunger".
Sylar is not an alternate personality, Creator. Sylar is a mask. He was created back before S1 (6 months before it actually) by Gabriel as a way to hide from the world, but he is most definitely not an alternate personality.
Everyones entitled to their own opinions/theories, but I will never understand the idea that with multiple abilities Peter is stupid. That just doesn't make sense. All of these people with abilities struggled when their abilities first manifested, in season one especially. Peter had no idea how his powers worked, and with a power like that, come on, of course he would make mistakes. Not to mention he had people form the future getting him all twisted up. He never had time to get control over his ability. At this point Peter is more mature, he knows who he is, and he understands his ability for the most part. If they gave him the ability to hold on to powers he replicates I don't see it being a problem now, especially since he has to choose which ones to take and he has to use touch. The problem before was absorbing any power he came in to contact with. I think they solved the stupid Peter problem by getting rid of the big "sponge", not the ability to hold multiple powers.
If they're not going to give Peter back his full power then what they should do is just make him have to choose which ability he's using at any one moment. IE: He may have copied 10 powers but he can only use 1 at a time and must make a conscious decision to switch between them.
Synch,
I both acknowledge and welcome your opinion. I don't agree with it, but then, what's new?
When Peter went with F_Peter to the future and sought F_Sylar, he didn't find F_Sylar, he found F_Gabriel. As a matter of fact, whenever a version of Gabriel is in control, Sylar is not (and visa versa). I call that examples of an alternate personality.
Perhaps a psych major might chime in with an opinion?
I both acknowledge and welcome your opinion. I don't agree with it, but then, what's new?
When Peter went with F_Peter to the future and sought F_Sylar, he didn't find F_Sylar, he found F_Gabriel. As a matter of fact, whenever a version of Gabriel is in control, Sylar is not (and visa versa). I call that examples of an alternate personality.
Perhaps a psych major might chime in with an opinion?
An alternate personality is something like what we saw with Niki/Jessica. She didn't create her, consciously, and had no control over her.
We actually saw the moment when Sylar was created, in 6MA. Sylar was created as a mask, and under that mask Gabriel is free to follow his darkest desires. But I see nothing indicating it is an alternate personality.
In that future you reference, Gabriel even commented that it was a daily struggle. Sort of like an alcoholic talking about beating alcoholism.
If it was a legitimate alternate personality, there would be no struggle involved. You may hear about them trying to keep the alternate from taking over, but you wouldn't hear about them struggling not to do what the alternate did.
We actually saw the moment when Sylar was created, in 6MA. Sylar was created as a mask, and under that mask Gabriel is free to follow his darkest desires. But I see nothing indicating it is an alternate personality.
In that future you reference, Gabriel even commented that it was a daily struggle. Sort of like an alcoholic talking about beating alcoholism.
If it was a legitimate alternate personality, there would be no struggle involved. You may hear about them trying to keep the alternate from taking over, but you wouldn't hear about them struggling not to do what the alternate did.
Synch,
Who is it that regrets their past transgressions, seeks redemption and now calls themselves Gabriel? And, who is it that is terrorizing Matthew?
Who is it that regrets their past transgressions, seeks redemption and now calls themselves Gabriel? And, who is it that is terrorizing Matthew?
Umm...the answer to your first question would be Nathan.
ETA:
At least, that's who he thinks he is.
ETA:
At least, that's who he thinks he is.
Synch,
This was my question :
"Who is it that regrets their past transgressions, seeks redemption and now calls themselves Gabriel?"
He knows himself as Nathan and he knows himself as Gabriel. He's confused. Waking up and seeing himself as Nathan (and not Gabriel), he flew home.
We can simply agree to disagree at this point. I'm happy with that.
This was my question :
"Who is it that regrets their past transgressions, seeks redemption and now calls themselves Gabriel?"
He knows himself as Nathan and he knows himself as Gabriel. He's confused.
Waking up and seeing himself as Nathan (and not Gabriel), he flew home. We can simply agree to disagree at this point. I'm happy with that.
Actually, he has no knowledge of Gabriel, save what Samuel put into his head. Theonly memories he actually has are Nathan's. Thus, he thinks he's Nathan.
Gabriel is in Matt's head.
Gabriel is in Matt's head.
Synch,
Bottom line...we disagree. I say Sylar is in Matt's head. And, the "being" that regrets the malicious actions of Sylar performed by the Gabriel/Nathan body and seeks redemption for it is not Nathan. That's Gabriel. Ownership of that body is up for grabs right now--between Gabriel and Nathan only. Clearly (to me), Sylar and Matt fight to control Matt's body.
So we disagree. Cool.
Bottom line...we disagree. I say Sylar is in Matt's head. And, the "being" that regrets the malicious actions of Sylar performed by the Gabriel/Nathan body and seeks redemption for it is not Nathan. That's Gabriel. Ownership of that body is up for grabs right now--between Gabriel and Nathan only. Clearly (to me), Sylar and Matt fight to control Matt's body.
So we disagree. Cool.
The only reason you can get away with saying it's Gabriel in the body is because it's his body.
Not a single memory of Gabriel exists in that body. The only memories he has are of Nathan. To claim Gabriel is in there is to make a claim that is backed by opinion only, but not by anything we have seen onscreen.
Not a single memory of Gabriel exists in that body. The only memories he has are of Nathan. To claim Gabriel is in there is to make a claim that is backed by opinion only, but not by anything we have seen onscreen.
Synch,
And so, are you suggesting that it's not Gabriel who seeks redemption for the acts committed by Sylar while in his body? Or, is it Nathan (who seeks redemption for those acts), in your opinion?
And so, are you suggesting that it's not Gabriel who seeks redemption for the acts committed by Sylar while in his body? Or, is it Nathan (who seeks redemption for those acts), in your opinion?
I don't see anybody seeking redemption for those acts, actually.
Nathan is clearly in Sylar's body. (Or at least his memories, so that he thinks he's Nathan.)
Samuel told him that he's Sylar, not Nathan. But he has no memory of being Sylar or Gabriel. Samuel also told him that he had committed those actions, but he still has no memory of doing them.
Based on what we saw at the end, he clearly thinks he's Nathan. There is no Gabriel in there.
Nathan is clearly in Sylar's body. (Or at least his memories, so that he thinks he's Nathan.)
Samuel told him that he's Sylar, not Nathan. But he has no memory of being Sylar or Gabriel. Samuel also told him that he had committed those actions, but he still has no memory of doing them.
Based on what we saw at the end, he clearly thinks he's Nathan. There is no Gabriel in there.
Synch,
In response the the following statement I replied that Gabriel, not Sylar sought redemption.:
"...Sylar. I really like what they're doing w/him this season. He doesn't want to be that monster that he had become and it's redemption because he has to face it, accept it and decide what to do.."
You decided that my response to this statement was wrong. You also decided that the original statement was baseless when you wrote:
"I don't see anybody seeking redemption for those acts, actually."
So, where at least two of us (more than one) interpreted that there was someone seeking redemption for those horrible acts committed by Sylar, you suggest that we're both wrong because you did not see it that way. Interesting. Well, [speaking for both of us] we thank you for your insight.
In response the the following statement I replied that Gabriel, not Sylar sought redemption.:
"...Sylar. I really like what they're doing w/him this season. He doesn't want to be that monster that he had become and it's redemption because he has to face it, accept it and decide what to do.."
You decided that my response to this statement was wrong. You also decided that the original statement was baseless when you wrote:
"I don't see anybody seeking redemption for those acts, actually."
So, where at least two of us (more than one) interpreted that there was someone seeking redemption for those horrible acts committed by Sylar, you suggest that we're both wrong because you did not see it that way. Interesting. Well, [speaking for both of us] we thank you for your insight.
The problem is that, to take the route and belief you and the other poster have taken, you have to ignore what we have been shown and told.
The shell that is Gabriel has memories, absolutely. But they're Nathan's memories. He has no memories of life as Gabriel. He has even told us that.
The shell that is Gabriel has memories, absolutely. But they're Nathan's memories. He has no memories of life as Gabriel. He has even told us that.
Synch,
We disagree. And, as always, I'm cool with that.
We disagree. And, as always, I'm cool with that.
I think what GG had is not an alternate personality but this thing called Borderline Personality Disorder (coupled with a big dose of NPD to boot). Especially the S1 version. Gabriel Gray was damaged long before he got any powers, they just gave him an outlet, a way out... a way for a little kid to rule the world. He also has a skewed morality which I sometimes even agree with. But he never got any help from anybody so it made sense, he was in a "nothing to lose" situation.
Over time he seemed to slip entirely into the darkness that's NPD and Sylar is his False Self while GG is still there, buried deep away, away so that he never has to think about the part of himself that he hates... he created a personality that is special, feared, and well known.
I'm pretty sure the whole entirety of GG is in Parkman, and Sylar will forever rule. The few instances where the "good" side of GG seemed to get out don't exactly make sense but I don't think the writers have a very well defined psychological profile of GG anyway. My attempts to understand Sylar's personality usually led nowhere, but there are PLENTY of things that look like multiple personality and are not.
The guy in Nathan's body is Nathan with partial amnesia (I guess being killed does that to you?). It's a bit weird. It feels like Nathan looking back at GG's life as if it was his own, and he doesn't have Sylar to help cope with it so he goes a bit crazy.
Those are my theories anyway.
Over time he seemed to slip entirely into the darkness that's NPD and Sylar is his False Self while GG is still there, buried deep away, away so that he never has to think about the part of himself that he hates... he created a personality that is special, feared, and well known.
I'm pretty sure the whole entirety of GG is in Parkman, and Sylar will forever rule. The few instances where the "good" side of GG seemed to get out don't exactly make sense but I don't think the writers have a very well defined psychological profile of GG anyway. My attempts to understand Sylar's personality usually led nowhere, but there are PLENTY of things that look like multiple personality and are not.
The guy in Nathan's body is Nathan with partial amnesia (I guess being killed does that to you?). It's a bit weird. It feels like Nathan looking back at GG's life as if it was his own, and he doesn't have Sylar to help cope with it so he goes a bit crazy.
Those are my theories anyway.
QUOTE (Synch @ Nov 11 2009, 03:32 PM)
The only reason you can get away with saying it's Gabriel in the body is because it's his body.
Not a single memory of Gabriel exists in that body. The only memories he has are of Nathan. To claim Gabriel is in there is to make a claim that is backed by opinion only, but not by anything we have seen onscreen.
Not a single memory of Gabriel exists in that body. The only memories he has are of Nathan. To claim Gabriel is in there is to make a claim that is backed by opinion only, but not by anything we have seen onscreen.
I agree with creator... the body and mind of nathan is in fact there... there is NO sylar left.. but sylar is not gabriel.. Matt was told to erase sylar from his body not gabriel those are two different people... just like niki and jessica.. two different minds trapt in one body..
There's nothing to indicate that Sylar is a separate entity, or is there? I recall nothing of the sort.
And Jessica didn't really come out of thin air, either, she existed beforehand. Where did Sylar come from, if he was separate? Why does he always fall back on Gabriel Gray's childhood, return to his mom, and is generally weakened by Gabriel Gray (unlike Jessica who seemed pretty independent from Nikki)?
And Jessica didn't really come out of thin air, either, she existed beforehand. Where did Sylar come from, if he was separate? Why does he always fall back on Gabriel Gray's childhood, return to his mom, and is generally weakened by Gabriel Gray (unlike Jessica who seemed pretty independent from Nikki)?
inXi,
Please help me better understand your theory. Do I understand you to suggest that the Sylar personality pre-exist and is independent of Gabriel's IA?
Also, you say that there were times when Gabriel (the "good side") did manifest without your understanding. Where and when did this "good side" manifest this season (S4)?
I await your reply.
Please help me better understand your theory. Do I understand you to suggest that the Sylar personality pre-exist and is independent of Gabriel's IA?
Also, you say that there were times when Gabriel (the "good side") did manifest without your understanding. Where and when did this "good side" manifest this season (S4)?
I await your reply.
QUOTE (inXi @ Nov 12 2009, 09:32 AM)
There's nothing to indicate that Sylar is a separate entity, or is there? I recall nothing of the sort.
No, there isn't.
Sylar and Gabriel are one. Sylar is a mask Gabriel has been using since 6 months before S1 started.
@Creator
Certainly. I never related Sylar and IA. IA was actually there before Sylar, in a way, but also he was making that watch for a while... Sylar awakens when Suresh comes to Gabriel and tells him he may be special. GG doesn't even know he has a power, but he wants to be special. He underestimates himself so heavily he thinks being good with watches is nothing and doesn't even realize he has the most amazing power ever until he actually kills somebody, and even then he's not happy with his ability, he wants abilities of others, he sees them greater than himself. He wants to SHOW OFF to Suresh. He wants to be liked by Suresh, and it's important to him, he tells that to Mohinder later...
In other words, significant esteem problems. As seen in S3 they seem to stem from his childhood. That's GG's weaker part, the part he tries to hide by using a Sylar False Self. Most people wear masks, but the difference in NPD is that they rely on the mask to survive so heavily their real self sort of gets buried.
A pathological narcissist hates himself and loves the mask he wears, to put it simply.
It's a REALLY complicated disorder, though, it can't be described in a forum post, but it fits GG well. Total lack of empathy, uses everyone, hurts those who help him, has a very charming appearance if he wants to, intelligent but immature (coming back to the backwards R and childish writing... hahahhaha), the whole package. An NPD is a child with the powers of an adult. Sylar is a child with the powers of an adult and IA and everything that comes with it. This was described very well in Jerome's Bixby's "It's a Good Life" if anyone ever saw/read that. It's about a 6 year old who can do anything he wants.
Again, this is just a theory. I'm pretty sure it never went through the mind of the writers, but, again, I cannot make a complete profile on Sylar, there's always something in conflict...
Certainly. I never related Sylar and IA. IA was actually there before Sylar, in a way, but also he was making that watch for a while... Sylar awakens when Suresh comes to Gabriel and tells him he may be special. GG doesn't even know he has a power, but he wants to be special. He underestimates himself so heavily he thinks being good with watches is nothing and doesn't even realize he has the most amazing power ever until he actually kills somebody, and even then he's not happy with his ability, he wants abilities of others, he sees them greater than himself. He wants to SHOW OFF to Suresh. He wants to be liked by Suresh, and it's important to him, he tells that to Mohinder later...
In other words, significant esteem problems. As seen in S3 they seem to stem from his childhood. That's GG's weaker part, the part he tries to hide by using a Sylar False Self. Most people wear masks, but the difference in NPD is that they rely on the mask to survive so heavily their real self sort of gets buried.
A pathological narcissist hates himself and loves the mask he wears, to put it simply.
It's a REALLY complicated disorder, though, it can't be described in a forum post, but it fits GG well. Total lack of empathy, uses everyone, hurts those who help him, has a very charming appearance if he wants to, intelligent but immature (coming back to the backwards R and childish writing... hahahhaha), the whole package. An NPD is a child with the powers of an adult. Sylar is a child with the powers of an adult and IA and everything that comes with it. This was described very well in Jerome's Bixby's "It's a Good Life" if anyone ever saw/read that. It's about a 6 year old who can do anything he wants.
Again, this is just a theory. I'm pretty sure it never went through the mind of the writers, but, again, I cannot make a complete profile on Sylar, there's always something in conflict...
inXi,
Please help me better understand your theory.Do I understand you to suggest that the Sylar personality pre-exist and is independent of Gabriel's IA?
Also, you say that there were times when Gabriel (the "good side") did manifest without your understanding. Where and when did this "good side" manifest this season (S4)?
I await your reply. I'll reply once you've addressed the second question. Thanks!
Please help me better understand your theory.
Also, you say that there were times when Gabriel (the "good side") did manifest without your understanding. Where and when did this "good side" manifest this season (S4)?
I await your reply. I'll reply once you've addressed the second question. Thanks!
I'm a bit confused with what you're saying, Creator. If you're joking or being sarcastic I'm just going to warn you right now, I do not understand neither unless clearly stated... I was not requesting a reply, either. I don't understand why you repeated your post and crossed that part out... *is very confused*
I don't think GG appeared anywhere in S4. Generally, if he has something to keep him busy (such as Parkman), he's not supposed to. At most there may be that tiny bit in Once Upon A Time In Texas since that was Cylar (Sylar in baseball Cap), and he may have been a bit bothered by Hiro's speech, but I am not sure.
"Good" is not a term I should have used, though. "Weak" is more like it.
I don't think GG appeared anywhere in S4. Generally, if he has something to keep him busy (such as Parkman), he's not supposed to. At most there may be that tiny bit in Once Upon A Time In Texas since that was Cylar (Sylar in baseball Cap), and he may have been a bit bothered by Hiro's speech, but I am not sure.
"Good" is not a term I should have used, though. "Weak" is more like it.
I'd just like to say that if you go back to the scene on an invisible thread where matt erases the memories he clearly says you are no longer sylar, no longer gabriel grey, they do not exist anymore. so sylar and gg are 1 but they are opposite ends of the same personality but as of late i think he fully let go of his good side and chose to be fully sylar after meeting his father and for now resides in matts mind, the body had no idea who it was since nathan was shot that is untill shadowboxing when nathan resurfaced
inXi,
Consider me warned [stop; you're scaring me
]. And no, I was not joking or being sarcastic.
I re-stated the original post [striking that which was addressed] so that you would see that my question was two-fold. You addressed one part [the first, thank you] but, not the other. I asked the second question because of the context in which we (Synch and me) were having our discussion, namely, S4 events and because of your original reply below:
"The few instances where the "good" side of GG seemed to get out don't exactly make sense but I don't think the writers have a very well defined psychological profile of GG anyway."
If this does not apply to S4 and the context of our conversation, please say so. But, if it is somehow contextually germane to this conversation, then I want to know the instances you were referencing. That's all. Fair enough?
Consider me warned [stop; you're scaring me
]. And no, I was not joking or being sarcastic. I re-stated the original post [striking that which was addressed] so that you would see that my question was two-fold. You addressed one part [the first, thank you] but, not the other. I asked the second question because of the context in which we (Synch and me) were having our discussion, namely, S4 events and because of your original reply below:
"The few instances where the "good" side of GG seemed to get out don't exactly make sense but I don't think the writers have a very well defined psychological profile of GG anyway."
If this does not apply to S4 and the context of our conversation, please say so. But, if it is somehow contextually germane to this conversation, then I want to know the instances you were referencing. That's all. Fair enough?
Me, scare? lol
...and the discussion seemed to have trailed off S4 and into GG's past (starting with Synch's post about masks) which is why I wrote what I wrote... I hope that clears it up.
QUOTE (Creator @ Nov 12 2009, 11:09 AM)
I re-stated the original post [striking that which was addressed] so that you would see that my question was two-fold. You addressed one part [the first, thank you] but, not the other.
Oh, OK.QUOTE (Creator @ Nov 12 2009, 11:09 AM)
I asked the second question because of the context in which we (Synch and me) were having our discussion, namely, S4 events and because of your original reply below: "The few instances where the "good" side of GG seemed to get out don't exactly make sense but I don't think the writers have a very well defined psychological profile of GG anyway."
If this does not apply to S4 and the context of our conversation, please say so. But, if it is somehow contextually germane to this conversation, then I want to know the instances you were referencing. That's all. Fair enough?[i]
This does not apply to S4...If this does not apply to S4 and the context of our conversation, please say so. But, if it is somehow contextually germane to this conversation, then I want to know the instances you were referencing. That's all. Fair enough?[i]
...and the discussion seemed to have trailed off S4 and into GG's past (starting with Synch's post about masks) which is why I wrote what I wrote... I hope that clears it up.
All this discussion is good but it a little of topic of my original comment about Peters Power...
inXi,
Thank you.
Sylar, as historically depicted, seems to have first appeared when IA took over Gabriel. When IA and its Hunger took control of Gabriel, he was changed. He was empowered, confident, devious, calculating and deadly. And, Sylar, fueled by the IA associated Hunger, had a need for more...more power and more knowledge. Expansion under the guise of a process of natural selection (Sylar's evolutionary imperative) was Sylar's personal call of the wild and his justification for murder.
Gabriel sought to redeem himself once before for the evil committed by Sylar (what I deem to be his alter ego--his Mr Hyde) by hanging himself, only to be interrupted by Elle.
Fast forward to S3 finale. Matt has exorcised Sylar from Gabriel's body, convinced that mind which remains (which I believe to be Gabriel--wiped clean) that he is now Nathan--causing him to shape shift into Nathan's form.
Fast forward to S4 where now a confused, bewildered and beleaguered GG/Nathan, while on the run from the authorities, makes his way to the Sullivan Brother's Carnival and sanctuary. While there, as you no doubt remember, he is shown his sorted past as Sylar (or should I say, Sylar's sorted past) which he rejects as his own.
Eventually, he acquiesces and begrudgingly accepts his part in the atrocities his alter ego has committed. He then seeks to redefine himself, not as Sylar or even Gabriel, but as Nathan. But, it is only when he awakens and sees his shape shifted form as Nathan that he truly remembers himself as Nathan and retreats to the safety of his dear brothers loving embrace.
So, inXi, when Gabriel/Nathan rejected the actions he saw in the House of Mirrors as his own, but eventually accepted responsibility, was he Sylar, Nathan or Gabriel? And, if he was Nathan, then who did he become upon awakening shape-shifted into Nathan's form and having the epiphany that he was "in trouble". For, I say that it was at that moment that he truly became Nathan again.
Thank you.
Sylar, as historically depicted, seems to have first appeared when IA took over Gabriel. When IA and its Hunger took control of Gabriel, he was changed. He was empowered, confident, devious, calculating and deadly. And, Sylar, fueled by the IA associated Hunger, had a need for more...more power and more knowledge. Expansion under the guise of a process of natural selection (Sylar's evolutionary imperative) was Sylar's personal call of the wild and his justification for murder.
Gabriel sought to redeem himself once before for the evil committed by Sylar (what I deem to be his alter ego--his Mr Hyde) by hanging himself, only to be interrupted by Elle.
Fast forward to S3 finale. Matt has exorcised Sylar from Gabriel's body, convinced that mind which remains (which I believe to be Gabriel--wiped clean) that he is now Nathan--causing him to shape shift into Nathan's form.
Fast forward to S4 where now a confused, bewildered and beleaguered GG/Nathan, while on the run from the authorities, makes his way to the Sullivan Brother's Carnival and sanctuary. While there, as you no doubt remember, he is shown his sorted past as Sylar (or should I say, Sylar's sorted past) which he rejects as his own.
Eventually, he acquiesces and begrudgingly accepts his part in the atrocities his alter ego has committed. He then seeks to redefine himself, not as Sylar or even Gabriel, but as Nathan. But, it is only when he awakens and sees his shape shifted form as Nathan that he truly remembers himself as Nathan and retreats to the safety of his dear brothers loving embrace.
So, inXi, when Gabriel/Nathan rejected the actions he saw in the House of Mirrors as his own, but eventually accepted responsibility, was he Sylar, Nathan or Gabriel? And, if he was Nathan, then who did he become upon awakening shape-shifted into Nathan's form and having the epiphany that he was "in trouble". For, I say that it was at that moment that he truly became Nathan again.
Yeah, Creator, I'd gladly continue this discussion with you but:
QUOTE (UltimateMimicry @ Nov 12 2009, 03:50 PM)
All this discussion is good but it a little of topic of my original comment about Peters Power...
I'm sure there's a Sylar-Gabriel thread... somewhere.QUOTE (UltimateMimicry @ Nov 12 2009, 03:50 PM)
All this discussion is good but it a little of topic of my original comment about Peters Power...
UM,
Much more than a little.
You were right to call that to our attention as this is your topic.
QUOTE (Creator @ Nov 12 2009, 06:13 PM)
UM,
Much more than a little. You were right to call that to our attention as this is your topic.
Much more than a little.
You were right to call that to our attention as this is your topic. Thank you Creator (much respect)
ya.. like Ive stated before.. ive really like how peter is being smart with his power.. but i just want him to be a stronger hero.. Yes... don't get me wrong he's saving lives and all but what if he was able to do more.. help more..
like for example
1. There is a woman dying and she needs to be healed.. but shes too far too make it.. He goes SPEEDSTER or flys over to her and heal her.. NOT just stand around the ER and wait..
2. A car pinned on top of someone and he needs super strength to get to them or telekenisis to move it..
You get my point... Of course i think the power to heal is Great! in his line of work... dont think i dont... but i wanna see him pull out a quiver of powers like he did before..
if they REALLY want to give him a limit or (handicap so to speak) like they gave sylar by erasing his memory.. just do something different.. We here on the threads could come up with something better.. he doesnt have to have claires power..You know make it to where you cant have both healing powers and rapid regeneration power...Maybe make him choose healing to save others... That sounds like a peter move... Not God like IMO..
A character that i saw in season 1 wasnt stupid with his powers.. look at the training he did with claude... he had to learn what his power did and how to use it. Peter has always chosen to do good even though he has had obstacles to over come
The character you saw in S1 wasn't stupid? Really?
"Here, I've had a dream where I was going radioactive and destroying New York. I know that my ability's unstable, and that if I encounter a dangerous ability or too many at once I risk having a meltdown. I know that the safest thing for everybody is for me to stay home. But, what's this? There's a dude in my painting...my niece says his name's Ted and he has the very ability I've been having nightmares about. HOT DOG! Let's go chase him down!"
What part of that sounds anything other than stupid?
"Here, I've had a dream where I was going radioactive and destroying New York. I know that my ability's unstable, and that if I encounter a dangerous ability or too many at once I risk having a meltdown. I know that the safest thing for everybody is for me to stay home. But, what's this? There's a dude in my painting...my niece says his name's Ted and he has the very ability I've been having nightmares about. HOT DOG! Let's go chase him down!"
What part of that sounds anything other than stupid?
He didn't go to chase him down intentionally if I remember correctly. It just so happened that Ted was with Noah and Matt heading to Kirby and bumped into him there.
that said, I do believe in general S1 Peter was a bit dense with regards to powers (which could be attributed to his lack of experience with them, he was after all a beginner trying to get his head around several different powers at once where as most characters only had to worry about one-which as we saw can be difficult enough) which coulped with his slightly 'still-childlike' demeanour makes for a bit of a 'stupid' character/person.
I think that with all his experience gained from having powers from S1-S4, we wouldnt need to worry about him reverting back to 'stupid' should he become multi-powered again. He knows the score with powers and what's possible and has even had varying degrees of experience with using powers so it stands to reason that he'd now have more control over powers too (as he as deminstrated with his quick mastering of newly aquired abilites).
He's also been forced to grow up and has been through a lot (Nathan turning on him, Arthur, dying, losing his memory etc), so couple this more mature, more worldly Peter with the ability-education he's had since S1 and I cant see how he would even be able to revert back to being stupid due to being multi-powered
that said, I do believe in general S1 Peter was a bit dense with regards to powers (which could be attributed to his lack of experience with them, he was after all a beginner trying to get his head around several different powers at once where as most characters only had to worry about one-which as we saw can be difficult enough) which coulped with his slightly 'still-childlike' demeanour makes for a bit of a 'stupid' character/person.
I think that with all his experience gained from having powers from S1-S4, we wouldnt need to worry about him reverting back to 'stupid' should he become multi-powered again. He knows the score with powers and what's possible and has even had varying degrees of experience with using powers so it stands to reason that he'd now have more control over powers too (as he as deminstrated with his quick mastering of newly aquired abilites).
He's also been forced to grow up and has been through a lot (Nathan turning on him, Arthur, dying, losing his memory etc), so couple this more mature, more worldly Peter with the ability-education he's had since S1 and I cant see how he would even be able to revert back to being stupid due to being multi-powered
QUOTE (Synch @ Nov 12 2009, 11:08 PM)
The character you saw in S1 wasn't stupid? Really?
"Here, I've had a dream where I was going radioactive and destroying New York. I know that my ability's unstable, and that if I encounter a dangerous ability or too many at once I risk having a meltdown. I know that the safest thing for everybody is for me to stay home. But, what's this? There's a dude in my painting...my niece says his name's Ted and he has the very ability I've been having nightmares about. HOT DOG! Let's go chase him down!"
What part of that sounds anything other than stupid?
"Here, I've had a dream where I was going radioactive and destroying New York. I know that my ability's unstable, and that if I encounter a dangerous ability or too many at once I risk having a meltdown. I know that the safest thing for everybody is for me to stay home. But, what's this? There's a dude in my painting...my niece says his name's Ted and he has the very ability I've been having nightmares about. HOT DOG! Let's go chase him down!"
What part of that sounds anything other than stupid?
No he wasnt stupid... that ignorance theres a difference. Being Stupid is having a xray power and only using it to see through a girls locker room (which would be nice but besides the point) or having a power and not doing anything useful with it.. Thats stupid.. Peter was ignorant about what he needed to do...
His DREAMS showed him blowing up New York. A painting showed a bomb exploding! What would you do? Run and hide like a coward (you may save yourself but bomb stills explode whos to say its is or isnt you... the future is never set in stone) or face your destiny and try and take control of that power? Sorry to me thats HEROIC (hence the name HEROES)
Yes peter has been blind sided by the ones closet to him.. but think about Superman...He accepts the villians he encounter and still sees the good in humanity...Does that make him stupid..If you think so than i feel thats a kick straight to Jonathan Kent's none baby makers!
wanting to see the good in people and wanting to save others is not stupid...
QUOTE (yeslek @ Nov 13 2009, 03:21 AM)
He didn't go to chase him down intentionally if I remember correctly. It just so happened that Ted was with Noah and Matt heading to Kirby and bumped into him there.
Actually...he did.
He found out about him from Claire, and took off practically at a run.
QUOTE (yeslek @ Nov 13 2009, 03:21 AM)
I think that with all his experience gained from having powers from S1-S4, we wouldnt need to worry about him reverting back to 'stupid' should he become multi-powered again. He knows the score with powers and what's possible and has even had varying degrees of experience with using powers so it stands to reason that he'd now have more control over powers too (as he as deminstrated with his quick mastering of newly aquired abilites).
You're comparing apples to oranges. The new power makes it possible to master new abilities. His old power made it impossible.
And the only restriction on him with his old power was his "stupidity". (It wasn't always stupidity, although some moments clearly were. Mostly it was the fact that he made decisions impulsively, and based on emotion.)
If they strip that away but let him have his original ability...you now have a God and might as well cancel the show- because there's not a single problem you could possibly create that a smart, logical thinking, master of his abilities, Peter couldn't easily snuff out.
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